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Rugby League Australia most popular sport?


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3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is a very simple reason why Foxtel… ahem… the NRL don’t fixture multiple games at any one time. Super Saturday is devised by the media giant in order to duplicate eyeballs to fixtures.

Neither does Foxtel have the same influence over the scheduling of rounds and start times of the AFL, that it does of the NRL.

I never came as far to say that there are more individual viewers of AFL than NRL, what I am saying is the figures we have been presented do not give us an accurate answer one way or the other. It will be a very close result either way.

For what it is worth, having witnessed first hand how NRL and AFL is consumed in my profession and as a supporter of both sports, in multiple states (Qld, NSW, Vic and WA), my experience tells me AFL holds a broader media, larger supporter and wealthier financial interest. Without doubt, AFL is the better resources, but that’s not the topic.

This really isn't very complicated. Yes, AFL has greater political and business influence than the NRL. That is primarily because in Melbourne and Perth it's the sport of all social groups (and has always been), whereas in NSW and Queensland the NRL (or NSWRL / BRL earlier) was still denigrated as the "working man's game". The Union-educated 'diaspora' still acted to limit League's penetration of both government and commerce. AFL didn't have that challenge.

What's interesting now is that as society gets flatter, media disintermediates and advertising gets more directly measurable we are slowly seeing a shift in favour of NRL commercially, finally valuing it more close to its worth. Not equivalent to AFL, as the adjustment takes time and NRL has the burden of the Super League war (and the media power dynamics that left it with, resulting in under-pricing), but a shift nonetheless.

Yes, AFL has an advantage in memberships and attendance for structural reasons discussed in detail in an earlier thread, but that does not have to be permanent and the genuinely large gap in TV audiences shows the direction of travel.

The market will out in the end, as barriers to equity fall (and the NRL org gets more competent). No amount of wishful gerrymandering of the numbers will act as a brake on that coming reality. 

 

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Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

understanding your point also, I disagree, believing that very accessibility of tv give more opportunity for repeat viewers. Neither side of the coin is quantifiable.

SOO no doubt is the biggest sporting spectacle in the country I expect, rating very well in Vic, SA and WA as well as heartlands. I wouldn’t dispute that point. Does the casual viewership of SOO alone attest to the higher following of RL over AFL. Debatably yes, but not by me.

Did the article take into account memberships, I can’t remember. Did it take into account the levels of fandom and avg spend per member, not that I remember. there are so many various metrics to determine the popularity of AFL, NRL and any other sport. Having higher television figures is very far from the sole barometer to demonstrate which “sport is bigger”. I would argue it’s not even the most important.

I do wonder where the Melbourne Cup rates on that viewership scale. Not that I am suggesting the viewing figures of a two to four minute horse race could mean horse racing is Australia’s favourite sport.

Yes, these things are difficult to quantify. 

The most popular sport could be the highest participation one but I think judging the number of people who watch a sport as the key metric to determine popularity seems pretty sensible to me.

What we know from the article is that across tv and in person audiences, Rugby League had 20 million more 'people' watching it compared to AFL.

Now, your argument is that the AFL would have more unique individuals out of their aggregate number due to in person  attendance more likely to take in fewer games than a TV audience.  My argument is that when you look at a teams full year of attendances, a very large proportion of the aggregate will be people attending multiple games and so producing proportionally fewer unique individuals as the season progresses.

It is impossible to know for sure but let me ask you.  Are you confident that your theory will account for a 20 million shortfall for AFL compared to Rugby League and that AFL has more unique viewers?

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39 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

understanding your point also, I disagree, believing that very accessibility of tv give more opportunity for repeat viewers. Neither side of the coin is quantifiable.

SOO no doubt is the biggest sporting spectacle in the country I expect, rating very well in Vic, SA and WA as well as heartlands. I wouldn’t dispute that point. Does the casual viewership of SOO alone attest to the higher following of RL over AFL. Debatably yes, but not by me.

Did the article take into account memberships, I can’t remember. Did it take into account the levels of fandom and avg spend per member, not that I remember. there are so many various metrics to determine the popularity of AFL, NRL and any other sport. Having higher television figures is very far from the sole barometer to demonstrate which “sport is bigger”. I would argue it’s not even the most important.

I do wonder where the Melbourne Cup rates on that viewership scale. Not that I am suggesting the viewing figures of a two to four minute horse race could mean horse racing is Australia’s favourite sport.

The article took into account attendance and membership with that plus TV viewership all combined NRL had over a 10m lead over AFL. You offer some good points but they don't move the needle that much to push it into the AFL favour. 

I go to Melbourne for work once a month and talking to the fellas there alot of them a fed up with afl new rules and are not watching it any more instead they more into the Storm this small sample size but may be a reason for these figures in favour on nrl. 

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8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

 

Now, your argument is that the AFL would have more unique individuals out of their aggregate number due to in person  attendance more likely to take in fewer games than a TV audience.  My argument is that when you look at a teams full year of attendances, a very large proportion of the aggregate will be people attending multiple games and so producing proportionally fewer unique individuals as the season progresses.

It is impossible to know for sure but let me ask you.  Are you confident that your theory will account for a 20 million shortfall for AFL compared to Rugby League and that AFL has more unique viewers?

That was only part of my theory. The main part of my theory is based on multiple fixtures being played at the same time in AFL. Regularly 4 per week. Sometimes more. It’s impossible to have 1 person watching 2 games played at the same time. Alternatively in NRL, the scheduling lends itself far more favourably to allowing 1 individual to watch 2 games on the same day. The Super Saturday concept is devised for that very purpose to engage viewers for 2 or for the die hards, 3 fixtures in one afternoon/evening.

An NRL match from first to final whistle without extra time is about 100 minutes, whilst a single AFL game 150 minutes. An individual would need to invest 59% more of their time to watch two televised AFL matches than one NRL match.

Again if I were to favour the NRL side of the coin, I would be pointing to the fact many individuals do watch multiple fixtures. Surely that demonstrates popularity of the sport, not just a club. That would be a fair comment as well, which has its own counter theory that favours AFL.

As an individual who is far more heavily invested in RL than Australian Rules, this isn’t me “sticking up” for Australian Rules football, I comment on the basis of demonstrating an alternate position to what I often see to be pro Australian RL discussion vs AFL with misleading theories, arguments and opinion, especially by people who do not live in Australia. If people want to denounce my theories, that is ok too. I don’t expect AFL to get the 50/50 calls on a predominantly British RL forum 😊

What I do commend with the likes of yourself, @Dave T and similar posters to yourselves is that you can discuss opposing opinions without emotionally charged, negative replies. It makes for healthy discussion.

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25 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

What I do commend with the likes of yourself, @Dave T and similar posters to yourselves is that you can discuss opposing opinions without emotionally charged, negative replies. It makes for healthy discussion.

Not sure why you think that. I think you're a right c***

🤣

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9 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

This really isn't very complicated. Yes, AFL has greater political and business influence than the NRL. That is primarily because in Melbourne and Perth it's the sport of all social groups (and has always been), whereas in NSW and Queensland the NRL (or NSWRL / BRL earlier) was still denigrated as the "working man's game". The Union-educated 'diaspora' still acted to limit League's penetration of both government and commerce. AFL didn't have that challenge.

What's interesting now is that as society gets flatter, media disintermediates and advertising gets more directly measurable we are slowly seeing a shift in favour of NRL commercially, finally valuing it more close to its worth. Not equivalent to AFL, as the adjustment takes time and NRL has the burden of the Super League war (and the media power dynamics that left it with, resulting in under-pricing), but a shift nonetheless.

Yes, AFL has an advantage in memberships and attendance for structural reasons discussed in detail in an earlier thread, but that does not have to be permanent and the genuinely large gap in TV audiences shows the direction of travel.

The market will out in the end, as barriers to equity fall (and the NRL org gets more competent). No amount of wishful gerrymandering of the numbers will act as a brake on that coming reality. 

 

I wouldn’t disagree with that. Another undiscussed point in favour of AFL over NRL where it Australian Rules navigates class divides far easier than RL

What you may well know is the shift of NRL popularity in the upper classes of the heartlands. Whilst Rugby Union remains the choice of sport at the secondary “establishment” GPS colleges in Sydney and Brisbane, NRL is the topic of most weekly discussion among the rugby playing students, many of which have contracts/associations to NRL clubs. Union appears to be the damsel to Rugby League’s freight train and there is no cowboy in sight. Rugby Australia have had recent opportunities to restyle their product but have been very unsuccessful in that rollout and have miserably failed to capitalise. It would appear that damsel tied herself to the tracks.

The NRL did suffer due to SL war and has never been in a better position than now to drive growth in their already mass audience figures. The obvious opportunity for large growth is in attendances and memberships as this is where the NRL is lagging the most.

I think NRL is well primed to encroach on what I still feel is a market led by the AFL. Tricky point is, where does that next NRL team play out of? Perth or NZ? Perth will help with the Australian profile of the NRL, yet NZ will help make inroads on the NZ and Pacific market, with a much better immediate return on elite youth coming through the game over the next 15 years. 

As the All Blacks continue to decline, a successful 2023 campaign by the Warriors will be another great opportunity. Perhaps that is for another thread though.

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9 hours ago, Young Blood said:

 

I go to Melbourne for work once a month and talking to the fellas there alot of them a fed up with afl new rules and are not watching it any more instead they more into the Storm this small sample size but may be a reason for these figures in favour on nrl. 

I can tell you there are tens of thousands of AFL fans that may not be turning off, but equally dissatisfied with how the sport is played and officiated these days. Me being one of them. A steady decline over the last ten years which has steepened in my opinion in the last five. 

The AFL certainly have far bigger challenges than the NRL in this regard and they appear harder to solve than when the NRL has them.

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33 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can tell you there are tens of thousands of AFL fans that may not be turning off, but equally dissatisfied with how the sport is played and officiated these days. Me being one of them. A steady decline over the last ten years which has steepened in my opinion in the last five. 

The AFL certainly have far bigger challenges than the NRL in this regard and they appear harder to solve than when the NRL has them.

Just curious has the level of play diminished in terms or  new tactics employed by coaches make it less entertaining, what  in particular has made many afl fans upset?

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4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I can tell you there are tens of thousands of AFL fans that may not be turning off, but equally dissatisfied with how the sport is played and officiated these days. Me being one of them. A steady decline over the last ten years which has steepened in my opinion in the last five. 

The AFL certainly have far bigger challenges than the NRL in this regard and they appear harder to solve than when the NRL has them.

There are NRL fans who say the same thing. This phenomenon is common with all sports, it was always better before, never now. 

So many NRL fans won't shut up about how the game was better 30 years ago. God help you if you come across a Sydney man over 50, who will regale you with tales of how the NSWRL was actually the height of Rugby League and it's never been as worse as it is now. 

Victorian AFL fans do the exact same thing with going on about how much better the VFL was.

Formula 1 fans never stop gushing about how much better it was in the 80s and 90s despite the fact nothing happened and no one could overtake. 

Im convinced it's all nostalgia, it wasn't better they were just younger so grew up to watch the sport in a certain way and when it changes, they get angry.

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19 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

There are NRL fans who say the same thing. This phenomenon is common with all sports, it was always better before, never now. 

So many NRL fans won't shut up about how the game was better 30 years ago. God help you if you come across a Sydney man over 50, who will regale you with tales of how the NSWRL was actually the height of Rugby League and it's never been as worse as it is now. 

Victorian AFL fans do the exact same thing with going on about how much better the VFL was.

Formula 1 fans never stop gushing about how much better it was in the 80s and 90s despite the fact nothing happened and no one could overtake. 

Im convinced it's all nostalgia, it wasn't better they were just younger so grew up to watch the sport in a certain way and when it changes, they get angry.

I get that phenomenon in all sports but most people I speak like the 6 again rule while the afl fans I speak seem unhappy about the game saying it was better 5 years ago 

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1 hour ago, Dirkgee said:

Im convinced it's all nostalgia, it wasn't better they were just younger so grew up to watch the sport in a certain way and when it changes, they get angry.

Also doesn`t hurt that we always remember the best bits.

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6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I wouldn’t disagree with that. Another undiscussed point in favour of AFL over NRL where it Australian Rules navigates class divides far easier than RL

What you may well know is the shift of NRL popularity in the upper classes of the heartlands. Whilst Rugby Union remains the choice of sport at the secondary “establishment” GPS colleges in Sydney and Brisbane, NRL is the topic of most weekly discussion among the rugby playing students, many of which have contracts/associations to NRL clubs. Union appears to be the damsel to Rugby League’s freight train and there is no cowboy in sight. Rugby Australia have had recent opportunities to restyle their product but have been very unsuccessful in that rollout and have miserably failed to capitalise. It would appear that damsel tied herself to the tracks.

The NRL did suffer due to SL war and has never been in a better position than now to drive growth in their already mass audience figures. The obvious opportunity for large growth is in attendances and memberships as this is where the NRL is lagging the most.

I think NRL is well primed to encroach on what I still feel is a market led by the AFL. Tricky point is, where does that next NRL team play out of? Perth or NZ? Perth will help with the Australian profile of the NRL, yet NZ will help make inroads on the NZ and Pacific market, with a much better immediate return on elite youth coming through the game over the next 15 years. 

As the All Blacks continue to decline, a successful 2023 campaign by the Warriors will be another great opportunity. Perhaps that is for another thread though.

As a nz rugby league fan you would be primed right now to put a team in the south island once the new stadium is built Christchurch and have a team play at Christchurch and Dunedin with top quality stadia it would be perfect time to strike. 
 

I believe super rugby will soon go on a decline and if the all blacks fall well short next year I would push to have a 2nd nrl team in nz by 2025 or 2027 at the latest leading into a new tv deal. I think the loss of the South African teams has impacted the product and with the struggling aussie teams I can’t see the product getting any better. With a 2nd team in south island you would solidify the elite youth pathways to nrl and limit the Aussie scouts while giving New Zealand a game at home every week especially in the July-august time when super rugby has finished. 

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League is by far the biggest game in the Pacific. The whole raison d’etre of Big P and SP is to denigrate the greatest game either by obvious trolling, made up figures or repeated patronisation. AFL gets terrific attendances and amazing membership figures in the southern state of Victoria, but ours is so much better game and so much more widely loved across the South Pacific region it’s not even in the rear view mirror. 

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6 hours ago, Dirkgee said:

There are NRL fans who say the same thing. This phenomenon is common with all sports, it was always better before, never now. 

So many NRL fans won't shut up about how the game was better 30 years ago. God help you if you come across a Sydney man over 50, who will regale you with tales of how the NSWRL was actually the height of Rugby League and it's never been as worse as it is now. 

Victorian AFL fans do the exact same thing with going on about how much better the VFL was.

Formula 1 fans never stop gushing about how much better it was in the 80s and 90s despite the fact nothing happened and no one could overtake. 

Im convinced it's all nostalgia, it wasn't better they were just younger so grew up to watch the sport in a certain way and when it changes, they get angry.

Even nostalgia isn't as good as it was 

I remember in the 1990s thinking about how great a bowler Fred Trueman was compared to the rubbish seamers of the 90s like Darren Gough.....I idolised him.

These days people try to look back at the 1990s bowlers in the same way we did to the 1960s bowlers but they lack the passion and misty eyes reverence we had....if only people could reminisce about past greats like we used to......

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12 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Even nostalgia isn't as good as it was 

I remember in the 1990s thinking about how great a bowler Fred Trueman was compared to the rubbish seamers of the 90s like Darren Gough.....I idolised him.

These days people try to look back at the 1990s bowlers in the same way we did to the 1960s bowlers but they lack the passion and misty eyes reverence we had....if only people could reminisce about past greats like we used to......

I think part of it is that we don’t always have the same ability to immerse ourselves in a game. I loved and breathe league obsessively in the 80s/90s, then became a dedicated fan. Then kids and life etc, so am still a big fan but there’s more to life. I feel more affection for Nicky Kiss as a player than, say, McIllorum but I couldn’t hand on heart say that Kiss was remotely in the same class… 

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1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I think part of it is that we don’t always have the same ability to immerse ourselves in a game. I loved and breathe league obsessively in the 80s/90s, then became a dedicated fan. Then kids and life etc, so am still a big fan but there’s more to life. I feel more affection for Nicky Kiss as a player than, say, McIllorum but I couldn’t hand on heart say that Kiss was remotely in the same class… 

If I'm honest since having kids i've immersed more in sport.....to escape them 

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27 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Even nostalgia isn't as good as it was 

I remember in the 1990s thinking about how great a bowler Fred Trueman was compared to the rubbish seamers of the 90s like Darren Gough.....I idolised him.

These days people try to look back at the 1990s bowlers in the same way we did to the 1960s bowlers but they lack the passion and misty eyes reverence we had....if only people could reminisce about past greats like we used to......

I watched a lot of older games during Covid lockdown, Some brilliant ones but also some terrible slogs. Its why it makes me smile on here when people look back on scrums with rose tinted glasses, they were a shambles.

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39 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I think part of it is that we don’t always have the same ability to immerse ourselves in a game. I loved and breathe league obsessively in the 80s/90s, then became a dedicated fan. Then kids and life etc, so am still a big fan but there’s more to life. I feel more affection for Nicky Kiss as a player than, say, McIllorum but I couldn’t hand on heart say that Kiss was remotely in the same class… 

I would pay good money to watch a Kiss - McIllorum fight…

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18 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I would pay good money to watch a Kiss - McIllorum fight…

Wouldn’t be a fair fight i mean Kiss must be close to 60, maybe nicky could only use one hand to make it even. 

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56 minutes ago, dkw said:

I watched a lot of older games during Covid lockdown, Some brilliant ones but also some terrible slogs. Its why it makes me smile on here when people look back on scrums with rose tinted glasses, they were a shambles.

Yep....I agree however I do enjoy a suprise push....we should allow it I'd it's done and not blow every time like referees do....if its now and again 

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1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yep....I agree however I do enjoy a suprise push....we should allow it I'd it's done and not blow every time like referees do....if its now and again 

There was one a few years ago that the ref allowed, was hilarious as no one knew what to di, including the defending team that got the ball back.

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

There was one a few years ago that the ref allowed, was hilarious as no one knew what to di, including the defending team that got the ball back.

Yeah....I'd say there is a about 3 or 4 a year I notice in games...often towards end if a team is chasing a game...it's always exciting 

Think if it went up to once or twice a game it could be fun

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18 hours ago, Young Blood said:

Just curious has the level of play diminished in terms or  new tactics employed by coaches make it less entertaining, what  in particular has made many afl fans upset?

Personally, I am a little different. I spent 13 years in the UK, so watching week to week AFL passed me by. So when I returned, the game had markedly changed.

Coaches were flooding the defensive half with almost the entirety of their team to spoil scoring opportunities of the opposition. As a result, clean movement of the ball became very, very difficult as soon as it hit the floor.

There are the rules too, where (despite what many AFL haters will let you believe) tough ball acquisition was one of the sports most redeeming features. Many of the bravest feats I have seen in any code have been in AFL and many would not occur today because the laws prevent them from happening today.

As @Dirkgee put it, there is the chance that some of my frustration is perhaps down to the fact there has been change. I’m certainly open to the idea that I might be getting grumpier as I get older 😂 

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