Wheelchair Rugby League

[MattSantos]

A mixed bag of a World Cup with a wonderful introduction of Wheelchair RL to the UK sporting landscape.

So, what's next?

Sat in the GMEX for the final was absolutely brilliant and i don't think we can afford to get this one wrong and/or be usurped by Union. My thoughts at the time were the same as they are now, this cannot be run by the clubs at the elite level. Whilst i would still want to see the clubs carry on the fantastic work they're doing, i would like to see the club level be the entry into the sport feeding into an elite competition that is played on free to air tv in the big arenas. Channel 4 would be great.

So, what does that look like.. I don't know, but as a starting point i'd want a competition governed by the RFL / IMG that invites participation and ownership akin to the way American franchises are run. Shared ownership, shared profits, shared marketing etc.

Teams. I want these games to be played in the great arenas we have through the UK and be a pathway for the elite players in the club comp*. I want to say like the 100 cricket comp, but i hate that...  Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Hull, Nottingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Norn Ireland, Sheffield, Birmingham, Wrexham. All are possible cities / franchises. 

*The club comp still maintains the entry points into the community and retains all of the social benefits that the sport offers.

Initial thoughts. Thought i'd get back on the horse after the shambles / sadness that was the Emirates.

[Dave W]

Wrexham???

Nothing against Wrexham but it does stick out like a sore thumb in your list.

Does it have a suitable "great arena"  ?

 

 

(Are you from Wrexham perchance?)

[JM2010]

36 minutes ago, Dave W said:

Wrexham???

Nothing against Wrexham but it does stick out like a sore thumb in your list.

Does it have a suitable "great arena"  ?

 

 

(Are you from Wrexham perchance?)

I think his point was North Wales rather than just Wrexham.

Anyway, I hope RL doesn't miss this opportunity as I think Wheelchair RL could spread across the UK and become an established spectator sport 

[Dave W]

5 hours ago, JM2010 said:

I think his point was North Wales rather than just Wrexham.

Anyway, I hope RL doesn't miss this opportunity as I think Wheelchair RL could spread across the UK and become an established spectator sport 

Fair enough. North Wales makes sense. I notice that @gogleddposted something about wheelchair rugby using Deeside Leisure Centre. 

[Futtocks]

There's been plenty on Twitter from clubs holding taster sessions and having plenty of people turn up.

Latest: Following yesterday's session, York have announced that they will be fielding a RLW side in 2023.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/23193856.york-rlfc-launch-wheelchair-team-2023-world-cup-success/

[gogledd]

On 15/12/2022 at 11:36, MattSantos said:

A mixed bag of a World Cup with a wonderful introduction of Wheelchair RL to the UK sporting landscape.

So, what's next?

Sat in the GMEX for the final was absolutely brilliant and i don't think we can afford to get this one wrong and/or be usurped by Union. My thoughts at the time were the same as they are now, this cannot be run by the clubs at the elite level. Whilst i would still want to see the clubs carry on the fantastic work they're doing, i would like to see the club level be the entry into the sport feeding into an elite competition that is played on free to air tv in the big arenas. Channel 4 would be great.

So, what does that look like.. I don't know, but as a starting point i'd want a competition governed by the RFL / IMG that invites participation and ownership akin to the way American franchises are run. Shared ownership, shared profits, shared marketing etc.

Teams. I want these games to be played in the great arenas we have through the UK and be a pathway for the elite players in the club comp*. I want to say like the 100 cricket comp, but i hate that...  Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Hull, Nottingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Norn Ireland, Sheffield, Birmingham, Wrexham. All are possible cities / franchises. 

*The club comp still maintains the entry points into the community and retains all of the social benefits that the sport offers.

Initial thoughts. Thought i'd get back on the horse after the shambles / sadness that was the Emirates.

The RFL actually control the main competitions in the UK ensuring teams compete at different levels (similar to the running game) there are teams that compete at Super League level (Halifax, Leeds Rhinos, Wigan Warriors, London Roosters, North Wales Crusaders) and then there are Championship level teams too (North Wales Crusaders compete in this level with a different team). For teams starting out or not yet at a competitive level there are development games organised on a more ad hock basis, very often with established teams coming along to help out. I know that North Wales did this with Warrington until they were at a stage they could enter the leagues.

Some of the competition games have been broadcast e.g. The Wheelchair Challenge Cup final and the Wheelchair Super League Grand Final.

We do have some great arenas in the UK but the cost is extremely prohibitive! Even for a basketball sized sports hall its easily £80 per hour. Clubs are run on a shoestring, and the biggest outlay (after buying sports chairs) is hall hire, for games and training.

 

To Answer @Dave W when playing and hosting international tournaments Wales Wheelchair RL have used Deeside Leisure Centre, Plas Madoc Leisure Centre and Glyndwr University Sports Hall (all in North Wales) and recently Cardiff Met University to play  a pre-RLWC test against Australia.....this is the usual type of arena that all current wheelchair teams use. The facilities at RLWC2021 - The EIS in Sheffield, The Copperbox in London and the Manchester Central Arena were exceptional and probably very costly too!

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by gogledd

[gogledd]

On 15/12/2022 at 11:36, MattSantos said:

wonderful introduction of Wheelchair RL to the UK sporting landscape.

be usurped by Union.

I'm so glad you enjoyed the Wheelchair RL tournament. It has been hidden from view really for too long and now that people have seen what a spectacular sport Wheelchair RL is I hope you are right and it gets picked up by a free to air broadcaster. There is plenty of footage on YouTube but that's not quite the same as the recent BBC broadcasts with multiple views of plays, in game replays and some fairly decent commentary too.

Currently Rugby Union doesn't have an equivalent: Wheelchair Rugby is a para-sport aimed at disabled ONLY players. Its played with a round ball, pass in any direction, no H shaped posts, and a try is similar to a touchdown in American football - break the plane of the try line and a try is scored. The RFU did support it for a very short while but as I understand it there's no longer a tie-in to Rugby Union, however there is a European competition to be held in Cardiff in 2023, so we'll see if union try to tie in with that....ex Wales and Llanelli player Rupert Moon seems to be promoting it on behalf of the sport of it could be he's doing it because its based in Cardiff.

There is a version of Wheelchair Rugby 7s, which does look a lot more like Union -  but none of the Union governing bodies support it and I've advised any of our players to ensure they get personal insurance if they do take it up. Some of our (North Wales Crusaders) did take it up but it was very short lived as basically there are no club teams and no national structure.

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by gogledd

[arcticchris]

The emergence on the mainstream stage of Wheelchair RL is the most exciting thing to happen to Rugby League in at least 2 decades and is potentially the jewel in the crown.

It is the best way of getting the rugby league product out to people free of the historic class war northern baggage.

 

Advocates like James Simpson, Seb Bechara and Tom Coyd present a very different vision to what has come before in the running game.

 

It is important to celebrate the pioneers like Gogledd and build on their successes.

[hw88]

Does it have to be played indoors? Could it not be played outdoors on school playgrounds marked with a netball/basketball pitch? There would be no goals obviously but the deadball line could be used as a tryline and it would be much cheaper than hiring a sports hall.

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, hw88 said:

Does it have to be played indoors? Could it not be played outdoors on school playgrounds marked with a netball/basketball pitch? There would be no goals obviously but the deadball line could be used as a tryline and it would be much cheaper than hiring a sports hall.

I think that would be a good idea at lower levels of the sport with sports halls and venues being used for the top level fixtures and internationals 

[Madrileño]

5 hours ago, hw88 said:

There would be no goals obviously but the deadball line could be used as a tryline and it would be much cheaper than hiring a sports hall.

I know what you mean. Much cheaper than a council sports hall. Which could be something the really elite players could aspire towards. 

Another cost saving idea could be training in supermarket car parks? (When the supermarket is closed, obviously).

The Spanish team had to do that before the world cup, and when there were not enough players to make 2 full teams, they would roll out a couple of shopping trolleys to make up the numbers. Again... this could be useful for teams just starting out who do not have enough players. 

[Griff]

7 hours ago, Madrileño said:

I know what you mean. Much cheaper than a council sports hall. Which could be something the really elite players could aspire towards. 

Another cost saving idea could be training in supermarket car parks? (When the supermarket is closed, obviously).

The Spanish team had to do that before the world cup, and when there were not enough players to make 2 full teams, they would roll out a couple of shopping trolleys to make up the numbers. Again... this could be useful for teams just starting out who do not have enough players. 

Don't tell me - the trolleys won.

[JM2010]

HW88, ignore that Madrileno. He's just a troll

[gogledd]

15 hours ago, hw88 said:

Does it have to be played indoors? Could it not be played outdoors on school playgrounds marked with a netball/basketball pitch? There would be no goals obviously but the deadball line could be used as a tryline and it would be much cheaper than hiring a sports hall.

If you've watched the game you'll see that many of the impacts in a tackle result in players and their chairs hitting the ground! Personally I wouldn't want to do that as there could be some serious graze injuries - similar to a cyclist falling off on tarmac at high speed!  It will probably depend on the surface, but sports wheelchair tyres aren't great on surfaces that aren't smooth. Rough surfaces will probably result in punctures and injury....and other surfaces can be very difficult to push and manoeuvre the chairs. It's been tried...and its probably why we play indoors!

[gogledd]

10 hours ago, Madrileño said:

I know what you mean. Much cheaper than a council sports hall. Which could be something the really elite players could aspire towards. 

Another cost saving idea could be training in supermarket car parks? (When the supermarket is closed, obviously).

The Spanish team had to do that before the world cup, and when there were not enough players to make 2 full teams, they would roll out a couple of shopping trolleys to make up the numbers. Again... this could be useful for teams just starting out who do not have enough players. 

I understand that team starting out have difficulties with numbers and costs, but realistically you wouldn't advise a running team to start on a car park and work their way up to a grass surface....it can be done, and has been done but its not a great way to start and is likely to damage chairs and injure players.

 

[Madrileño]

1 hour ago, gogledd said:

I understand that team starting out have difficulties with numbers and costs, but realistically you wouldn't advise a running team to start on a car park and work their way up to a grass surface....it can be done, and has been done but its not a great way to start and is likely to damage chairs and injure players.

 

True. The thing is, suggesting that a sports hall should only be used for "top level and international fixtures" is even more ridiculous.  The World Cup had games in the GMex arena (or whatever it is now called) yet we have a guy above saying that sports halls should only be for top level games.

Ludicrous. My supermarket car park analogy was exactly as you say: possible, but not advisable. I threw it in there to show up the total delusion of JM's earlier post. 

[hw88]

3 hours ago, gogledd said:

If you've watched the game you'll see that many of the impacts in a tackle result in players and their chairs hitting the ground! Personally I wouldn't want to do that as there could be some serious graze injuries - similar to a cyclist falling off on tarmac at high speed!  It will probably depend on the surface, but sports wheelchair tyres aren't great on surfaces that aren't smooth. Rough surfaces will probably result in punctures and injury....and other surfaces can be very difficult to push and manoeuvre the chairs. It's been tried...and its probably why we play indoors!

 

Yes, I appreciate that. I was merely asking a question.

Anyhow, I doubt people starting off would play the game in the same way as the international level players, so the impacts and falling would be much less intense. How did we all start playing football? In the park with jumpers for goals of course. I was thinking of that sort of scenario with groups of people playing at the local school for enjoyment as a cheapish way into the game.

[gogledd]

12 minutes ago, hw88 said:

 

Yes, I appreciate that. I was merely asking a question.

Anyhow, I doubt people starting off would play the game in the same way as the international level players, so the impacts and falling would be much less intense. How did we all start playing football? In the park with jumpers for goals of course. I was thinking of that sort of scenario with groups of people playing at the local school for enjoyment as a cheapish way into the game.

The speed of the game will be relatively slow to start with and the impacts will be at low speed if all the players are new to the sport, and your suggestion isn't impossible but its likely existing clubs will have a mixture of players with and without experience. There also the consideration of weight distribution of players; players with missing lower limbs are more likely to tip out of their chairs. People with a slight build are more likely to tip in a collision with a heavier person. It is something good coaching can control but eventually people will progress and want to improve their game, play faster and be able to tackle, which inevitably means stopping the attacking players chair. 

A running team could play a game on a school yard but that would be a completely different game to that played on a surface where you could carry out a full tackle. Wheelchair rugby league has the same limitations.

I'd encourage you to try out the game and see how the different surfaces, and tackle techniques impact players in attack and defence.

[Futtocks]

 

[Chris22]

I know it's a dream and unrealistic but the bigger the better for me.

If a wheelchair international was played in a local sports hall, I wouldn't go. Put it at the Echo Arena, I definitely would.

[gogledd]

On 17/12/2022 at 17:57, Chris22 said:

I know it's a dream and unrealistic but the bigger the better for me.

If a wheelchair international was played in a local sports hall, I wouldn't go. Put it at the Echo Arena, I definitely would.

 

On 17/12/2022 at 17:57, Chris22 said:

I know it's a dream and unrealistic but the bigger the better for me.

If a wheelchair international was played in a local sports hall, I wouldn't go. Put it at the Echo Arena, I definitely would.

I can appreciate that from a spectators point of view, but before this World Cup attendance at International Wheelchair games has been almost non-existent. RLWC2021 has set the bar far higher than previous tournaments and I look forward to the governing bodies putting in the hard yards to keep international games at this level.

[Futtocks]

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

More tryouts planned by Rochdale:

https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/4/sport-news/149667/rochdale-hornets-foundation-to-host-more-wheelchair-taster-sessions-in-2023
 

 

[JM2010]

Sounds like there is going to be a lot wheelchair teams playing next season. What's the current structure and how will these new teams fit into it?

[Griff]

On 16/12/2022 at 12:11, gogledd said:

The RFL actually control the main competitions in the UK ensuring teams compete at different levels (similar to the running game) there are teams that compete at Super League level (Halifax, Leeds Rhinos, Wigan Warriors, London Roosters, North Wales Crusaders) and then there are Championship level teams too (North Wales Crusaders compete in this level with a different team). For teams starting out or not yet at a competitive level there are development games organised on a more ad hock basis, very often with established teams coming along to help out. I know that North Wales did this with Warrington until they were at a stage they could enter the leagues.

Some of the competition games have been broadcast e.g. The Wheelchair Challenge Cup final and the Wheelchair Super League Grand Final.

We do have some great arenas in the UK but the cost is extremely prohibitive! Even for a basketball sized sports hall its easily £80 per hour. Clubs are run on a shoestring, and the biggest outlay (after buying sports chairs) is hall hire, for games and training.

 

To Answer @Dave W when playing and hosting international tournaments Wales Wheelchair RL have used Deeside Leisure Centre, Plas Madoc Leisure Centre and Glyndwr University Sports Hall (all in North Wales) and recently Cardiff Met University to play  a pre-RLWC test against Australia.....this is the usual type of arena that all current wheelchair teams use. The facilities at RLWC2021 - The EIS in Sheffield, The Copperbox in London and the Manchester Central Arena were exceptional and probably very costly too!

 

There's the thing. It's never going to be a money spinner. At best, grants and sponsorship will get it to break even. It's a great spectacle but is it really like running RL?