Central funding for Championship (and League 1)

[PhilCarrington]

And out of that central distribution the clubs have to pay for a table at the awards night (whether or not they can attend), 100 tickets for the Challenge Cup final (great if they can sell them all, but the spaces in their area every year shows that most dont) and cog testing. So around they don't get to see around 20% of their distribution. 

No parachute payment for anyone getting relegated to L1, so any club going down has a massive drop in income.

[OriginalMrC]

12 hours ago, Griff said:

Featherstone didn't.

And, of course, most clubs don't own their own ground.

That's because they kept their bar open! 

[Griff]

14 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Not strictly true. Most of those who own their own grounds struggled badly.

Fact-checked at Companies House

Dewsbury Rams

2019     £     1001 Profit

2020    £ 130818  Profit

2021    £      4408 Profit

For comparison

Featherstone Rovers

2019   £  35064 Profit

2020  £  101132 Profit

2021  £  320109  Loss

Barrow

2019    £   16440  Loss

2020   £  205953 Profit

2021    £    76109  Profit

Edited January 14, 2023 by Griff
Typo

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

Fact-checked at Companies House

Dewsbury Rams

2019     £     1001 Profit

2020    £ 130818  Profit

2021    £      4408 Profit

For comparison

Featherstone Rovers

2019   £  35064 Profit

2020  £  101132 Profit

2021  £  320109  Loss

Barrow

2019    £   16440  Loss

2020   £  205953 Profit

2021    £    76109  Profit

How much of that profit was government loans?

[Griff]

Just now, gingerjon said:

How much of that profit was government loans?

None.

A loan is neither profit nor loss.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

None.

A loan is neither profit nor loss.

Shows up as income though and if it doesn't need paying back straight away won't be a negative on the balance sheet?

(That's a genuine Q.)

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Shows up as income though and if it doesn't need paying back straight away won't be a negative on the balance sheet?

(That's a genuine Q.)

No, it doesn't show up as income.  It only shows on the balance sheet.  Increased cash at bank, increased debt owing, net effect on profit, nil.

[Blind side johnny]

9 hours ago, Griff said:

Fact-checked at Companies House

Dewsbury Rams

2019     £     1001 Profit

2020    £ 130818  Profit

2021    £      4408 Profit

For comparison

Featherstone Rovers

2019   £  35064 Profit

2020  £  101132 Profit

2021  £  320109  Loss

Barrow

2019    £   16440  Loss

2020   £  205953 Profit

2021    £    76109  Profit

Fascinating. The only one of these that I have any proper knowledge about (but no financial interest in) is Dewsbury. Their major non-RL sources of income prior to Covid were from weekly car-boot sales (suspended throughout), rental of 3G training pitches (suspended throughout), room rentals (suspended throughout) and site rentals to training companies, which were very limited by the outbreak. A simplistic conclusion is that they either make a loss on these activities or a massive loss on RL.

[Griff]

My money's on the massive loss on Rugby League.

[Plan of Attack]

Barrow turned it around by turning their pitch into a  massive beer garden 

[sweaty craiq]

On 13/01/2023 at 19:46, Blind side johnny said:

Not strictly true. Most of those who own their own grounds struggled badly.

Not exactly true, most clubs with significant season ticket sales made good profits in 2020

[Griff]

4 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Not exactly true, most clubs with significant season ticket sales made good profits in 2020

It's not remotely true.  Most - if not all - clubs had their best seasons in living memory.

 

[Griff]

18 hours ago, Plan of Attack said:

Barrow turned it around by turning their pitch into a  massive beer garden 

Barrow did exceptionally well.

[Josef K]

On 11/01/2023 at 11:56, The Phantom Horseman said:

One of the frustrating things if you follow the Championship, or League 1, is the difficulty in finding out exactly what funding each club gets.

It's been like this for years, we kind of knew a few years ago in the Middle 8s era that there were some huge sums being handed out to teams that finished at the top of the Championship but it was really hard to pin down the exact figures for each finishing position because they were never published on any offical website and we were left to rely on piecemeal comments from journalists.

Fast forward to 2022/23 and I've picked up a couple of comments by Mick Gledhill about funding for the lower league clubs. I know most people's first reaction will be to roll their eyes at the source but that's precisely my point, why would we need to rely on the words of someone who may be hit-and-miss if the information were published by the RFL?

Anyway, at one point Gledhill was talking about the different amounts received by clubs based on the various"Return On Investment" criteria. As I understand it from things I've read written by journalists, there is still a sliding scale of payments based on finishing position, but with a much smaller difference between positions than used to be the case.

However, Gledhill has stated that the difference in payments based on crowds and data (social media engagements etc) is more significant than I would have guessed - he cited a range of £45k down to £6k for each of those two categories.

That's pretty significant, especially when some of those figures might be a bit nebulous and even possible to "game".

He has said on more than one occasion that Bradford topped the payouts for crowds (Widnes were second, apparently). I presume that's based on season ticket sales, as the actual attendances at Odsal last year were often pitiful - there was one game for instance where Bradford announced a crowd of 2,700 but photographic evidence from all parts of the ground strongly suggested the crowd fell well short of four figures.

So presumably it's based on season ticket sales, which isn't unusual (I think plenty of clubs include season tickets amongst the announced gates), but you wonder how that and all the other factors that have a direct impact on funding are monitored. 

But more importantly, why can't the figures just be published, telling us who received how much in each category? Instead we get speculative comments about how team A is much better funded than team B, but if we had the information published, there wouldn't be any need for speculating or hanging on for titbits from what may or may not be unreliable sources.

I remember the RFL used to give the amounts of cash teams would get for being knocked out of the first round of the challenge cup, all the way up to the winners & losers. Now there is nothing, it’s the same with the GF i haven’t got a clue what the winners get. It’s as if it has nothing to do with the fans and they shouldn’t be asking such questions. Everything in RL seems so secretive when it comes to cash. 

[Griff]

52 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I remember the RFL used to give the amounts of cash teams would get for being knocked out of the first round of the challenge cup, all the way up to the winners & losers. Now there is nothing, it’s the same with the GF i haven’t got a clue what the winners get. It’s as if it has nothing to do with the fans and they shouldn’t be asking such questions. Everything in RL seems so secretive when it comes to cash. 

Why should it be public knowledge ?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Josef K said:

I remember the RFL used to give the amounts of cash teams would get for being knocked out of the first round of the challenge cup, all the way up to the winners & losers. Now there is nothing, it’s the same with the GF i haven’t got a clue what the winners get. It’s as if it has nothing to do with the fans and they shouldn’t be asking such questions. Everything in RL seems so secretive when it comes to cash. 

Yes all of this used to be very transparent in Rugby League and quite normal. As with most things the transparency dried up when the picture became less rosy.

[sweaty craiq]

6 hours ago, Griff said:

It's not remotely true.  Most - if not all - clubs had their best seasons in living memory.

 

Making £20 when u normally lose is the best season in memory. Season ticket sales and Sky money etc plus furlough made the money

[Josef K]

On 15/01/2023 at 17:44, Griff said:

Why should it be public knowledge ?

Other sports are quite happy to tell people what the winners & losers get. When it comes to RL it’s like an iron curtain, id love to know what prize money we are playing for. 

[Griff]

7 minutes ago, Josef K said:

Other sports are quite happy to tell people what the winners & losers get. When it comes to RL it’s like an iron curtain, id love to know what prize money we are playing for. 

I'd love to know a lot of things but I accept that most of them are none of my business.

[Josef K]

On 18/01/2023 at 15:07, Griff said:

I'd love to know a lot of things but I accept that most of them are none of my business.

Why shouldn’t the average RL fan know what the RFL are doing with the cash they get from sponsors.

I do wonder that if they don’t announce the prize fund then it must be a naff sponsorship deal. It may not interest you Griff but it interests me. 

[Griff]

7 minutes ago, Josef K said:

Why shouldn’t the average RL fan know what the RFL are doing with the cash they get from sponsors.

I do wonder that if they don’t announce the prize fund then it must be a naff sponsorship deal. It may not interest you Griff but it interests me. 

It's not a question of whether it interests me or you.  It's a question of privacy rights.

I might turn the question around and ask, why should the average RL fan know what the RFL are doing with the cash they get from sponsors ?

[Anita Bath]

I still wonder what happened to the stobart millions

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

I might turn the question around and ask, why should the average RL fan know what the RFL are doing with the cash they get from sponsors ?

Seriously?

[Ovenden Grunt]

On 14/01/2023 at 08:53, OriginalMrC said:

That's because they kept their bar open! 

Brilliant ️

[Griff]

20 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Seriously?

Yes.  Why should they disclose information which might well be commercially sensitive, just to satisfy Josef's curiosity ?