Rhino's new tactics?

[sentoffagain2]

   A few years ago Fax were very good at it in The Championship.Especially when they had a strong wind in their faces which would blow the ball back to them.I wouldn't use it all the time but mix it up a bit.Sometimes the kick offs land very close to the same position so no surprise element.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I don't ever remember it being in favour much TBH. A strike thing you might do once or twice a game (absolute tops) but something of a sign that you were now chasing the game a bit.

Yeah, it's never been in favour in the 35 years I've watched the game. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'd like to see more risky plays. I completely understand why they kick long, but it's a bit boring!

I miss the amateur days where they'd just boot it straight at a player in front of them!

I think this is a challenge RL has in a fair few areas. A certain breed of coaching mentality has led to risk averse RL and all we hear about is processes and percentages. That just isn't inspiring to anyone really. 

I think RL needs to be careful. 

[The Phantom Horseman]

It's quite a difficult tactic to pin down in terms of analytics, because there are so many variables involved and I don't think any pro or semi-pro team has ever tried it as a regular tactic over a reasonable sample of games.

The chances of pulling it off as a surprise tactic with perhaps three defenders in the receiving area are going to be higher than if you were clearly using it as a regular tactic - not only would there be more defenders ready and waiting to challenge for the ball in the latter instance, but they'd probably rehearse strategy too.

The other reason I suspect that coaches are reluctant to bring it in as an intermittent tactic is that they're perhaps a bit wary of the signal it sends to the players...most coaches preach a culture of wanting to concede as few points as possible so probably don't want to practice something which in an ideal world they'd only do once per game (at the start of one half). "Ok guys, the game plan today is we're going to go short on our fourth, sixth and eighth kick off" isn't exactly going to inspire confidence in the team.

[Michael Bates]

If the number of short kickoffs increase, perhaps the referees might start looking at actually giving penalties at the kickoff. I'd bet that at 90% of kickoffs a penalty could be given for the chasers being offside.

[Hopie]

It might discourage kicks at goal if it disrupts a "Take the two, get the ball back" mindset, which would only be a good thing.

[SalfordSlim]

2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'd like to see more risky plays. I completely understand why they kick long, but it's a bit boring!

I miss the amateur days where they'd just boot it straight at a player in front of them!

Salford scored a number of tries off Sneyd diagonal kicks on the 1st/2nd tackle last season. Pretty sure we did it a couple of times at Cas early in the season and even if we didn't score from the initial kick the disarray it caused in defence then led to a score on the next couple of plays. It helps if you've got a flyer on the wing like Burgess as well. 

Definitely needs the right type of players involved (& coach in Rowley) but it's a joy to watch when you pull it off.

Look at what the England Test team achieved in 2022 off the back of some maverick tactics.

Edited January 12 by SalfordSlim

[DI Keith Fowler]

I'd like to see more players just absolutely leather it along the ground between the 30 & 40 metre line. If you're asking the opposition to fight to keep it in play you're massively increasing the odds of a knock on or at least a slow play of the ball. 

[DI Keith Fowler]

Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

I'd like to see more players just absolutely leather it along the ground between the 30 & 40 metre line. If you're asking the opposition to fight to keep it in play you're massively increasing the odds of a knock on or at least a slow play of the ball. 

It's occurred to me that this was my tactic on the first Rugby League video game.

[The Phantom Horseman]

2 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I'd like to see more players just absolutely leather it along the ground between the 30 & 40 metre line. If you're asking the opposition to fight to keep it in play you're massively increasing the odds of a knock on or at least a slow play of the ball. 

There were one or two players who tried this with a bit of success at Odsal last season, which is a really logical place to do it give the narrowness of the pitch. Elsewhere, whilst i don't disagree with you, I think the concern with the tactic is that if you don't catch the ball at the correct angle it can fly straight into touch for a penalty.

[GUBRATS]

It isn't specifically a high short kick off that's the point here , those fans who've had Mick Nanyn play for their team will be familiar with his kick off technique, Mick would put heavy top spin on the ball bringing it down heavily and with pace in front of the recieving players , quite often resulting in a high bounce that would clear the defenders and go into touch , he made it really difficult to get a clean catch with players sometimes trying to trap the ball with the foot and the ball bouncing back to the kicking team 

Teams tend to play the % s , viewing it as damage limitation rather than how I view it as it should be a contest for possession ,to me it shows a lack of innovation , put the ball onto the sticks , smash it long or sideways , if you get a bounce you'll find touch or the dead ball line , mix it up , does the ref need to be told who is kicking off ? , Why not a left and a right footer as we see for free kicks in football ? , If you load one side will that mean the opposition follows suit ? , Leaving gaps on the other side ? 

 

[BadlyOverdrawnBoy]

It happened with increasing frequency towards the end of the NRL season, also from goal line dropouts. Some teams had quite a high success rate, probably why Leeds are trying it.

[hindle xiii]

9 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Depends on how good the kicker is.....the higher the better ...

Actually.....does it HAVE to be off a tee in RL...is it a rule ?

Bring back Brandon Costin's donkey d!ck style kicking tee!

[hindle xiii]

I seem to remember Leeds had some success with Sinfield utilising the short "on the floor"/dribble style kick off a few years ago.

[Tommygilf]

There has been a rise in risk averse rugby over the past decade and a half or so. The top teams can still play with flair when needed, but as a basic rule of thumb everyone plays the percentages.

Crucially everyone seems to expect everyone else to play the percentages too.

Anything that puts doubt in that theory to my mind is a good idea.

[Madrileño]

22 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

 

Actually.....does it HAVE to be off a tee in RL...is it a rule ?

It has to be a place kick. 

[redjonn]

On 12/01/2023 at 11:21, Jughead said:

This was my understanding of it. If you can defend a set inside the opponents forty, you’re more likely to receive the ball in a more favourable position that them completing a defensive set within your 20m and risking a repeat set/penalty/try conceded.

 

yep would agree. With a good defensive set you would be forcing the opposition to be kicking from behind the 40 and normally starting your own return set much higher and closer to half way. Giving yourself a huge advantages either in that set of plays or the subsequent maintaining of pressure on the opposition.

I think it would be foolish for Leeds to overdo the use of the short kick-off except when in need to do something to change momentum or chase the game.

 

[MZH]

I don't know how good a tactic it is for kick offs, but for goal line drop outs I think it's a no brainer. Whether you go long or short from a drop out you are going to be defending your line regardless, and a well executed short one gives you at least a 50/50 chance of getting it back and relieving the pressure on yourselves.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

On 12/01/2023 at 14:35, SalfordSlim said:

Salford scored a number of tries off Sneyd diagonal kicks on the 1st/2nd tackle last season. Pretty sure we did it a couple of times at Cas early in the season and even if we didn't score from the initial kick the disarray it caused in defence then led to a score on the next couple of plays. It helps if you've got a flyer on the wing like Burgess as well. 

Definitely needs the right type of players involved (& coach in Rowley) but it's a joy to watch when you pull it off.

Look at what the England Test team achieved in 2022 off the back of some maverick tactics.

As ever, I stand to be corrected, but didn't the very first try of the 2022 season come from a diagonal kick to the unmarked Fouad Yaha, who went over at St Helens for Les Dracs?

The other merit of this tactic is that it makes defending teams think twice about cutting the gap between players in their defensive line; they can otherwise bunch up somewhat, secure in the knowledge that they can slide across as a passing movement unfolds.

A few years ago, I commented on here that it would be interesting to see an RL team try a series of moves and tactics each of which defied current conventional practice, and another contributor replied saying that a team in Australia - called, I think, Ipswich Jets - had done exactly that.  I wonder how they got on and whether they had the nerve to stick at it.