RL Commercial - Paying peanuts to get ...

[Oxford]

53 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

IMG are providing staff to the project at their own cost, we are not paying for those (other than through a gainshare on the upside, in the future). The roles we’re talking about here are instead a reflection of their partner’s own appetite to invest - the RFL - so no you don’t get to lay this one at IMG’s door however much you’d prefer to.

Well HKB there's seems no end to the rabbit hole you complained about recently.

The RFL has never shown any sign of having enough money to get the people needed to make the difference that was always obvious.

If they're the ones funding the positions then nothing will have changed.

That will mean IMG being there is part of won't be making any dents any time soon.

You seem to think I want to blame IMG for the ending of life as we know it and the fall of the Roman Empire this is so far from the case it's not true.

However, as you well know, if you're not part of the solution.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

Well HKB there's seems no end to the rabbit hole you complained about recently.

The RFL has never shown any sign of having enough money to get the people needed to make the difference that was always obvious.

If they're the ones funding the positions then nothing will have changed.

That will mean IMG being there is part of won't be making any dents any time soon.

You seem to think I want to blame IMG for the ending of life as we know it and the fall of the Roman Empire this is so far from the case it's not true.

However, as you well know, if you're not part of the solution.

Nah I just replied to one comment where you did blame them for something that is instead the RFLs decision, explaining that it wasn’t. 

Look I know your schtick is “watch those two disagreeing parties, I’m just a balanced observer waiting to decide on the evidence”, and good luck with it, but seriously mate it’s about as convincing as a Nigel Wood exercise video

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Hull Kingston Bronco
Typo

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nah I just replied to one comment where you did blame them for something that is instead the RFLs decision, explaining that it wasn’t. 

Look I know your schtick is “watch those two disagreeing parties, I’m just a balanced observer waiting to decide on the evidence”, and good luck with it, but seriously mate it’s about as convincing as a Nigel Wood exercise video

 

 

I am completely biased in favour of RL HKB and even more so when it comes to SRD.

I just find, after a bit of strangely youthful excitement that there is a lot to be dubious about. And although I've no doubt IMG will be successful whatever happens can't mean they're exempt from the outcome.

If you find that to be playing the role of Switzerland well, I've been there and it's not all it's cracked up to be either.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

11 hours ago, Oxford said:

I am completely biased in favour of RL HKB and even more so when it comes to SRD.

I just find, after a bit of strangely youthful excitement that there is a lot to be dubious about. And although I've no doubt IMG will be successful whatever happens can't mean they're exempt from the outcome.

If you find that to be playing the role of Switzerland well, I've been there and it's not all it's cracked up to be either.

Not Switzerland, no. I was thinking more like if you bought a knock-off Machiavelli from Wish 

[JF1]

Throw in free pies at Batley. You'll be fighting 'em off.

[Dave T]

On 22/01/2023 at 11:14, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yeah agree it's underpaid. At that level £10k is the gap between capable-but-average, and excellent. But it's a poorly written job ad so hopefully just looks worse than it is? This could just be merely the senior specialist in a team of other people with experience, there's no direct reports so the other marketing exec roles must all report to the 'Head of'. If the team has 3 or 4 others in it its enough. Mind you, if there's only 1 other person alongside them then I'd agree we're f*****.

Oh God, as I type this I'm realising it probably is just 2 people... er....

 

I think there is something in the point about how these jobs are advertised, and even named. The word Senior, and even Head can really be quite low in the food chain really and can wildly vary across organisations, sometimes even within organisations. 

In the organisation I work for, we pretty much all have Senior in our title and the salaries vary massively. 

It's one of my bugbears, it's a poor job ad, and almost impossible to really understand the responsibilities and level of seniority. 

I agree that I don't think it is anywhere near as low as some may think, but it certainly isn't generous. I do think we can get decent candidates for that kind of mo ey, but they will generally be people earlier in their career, and when they do go we'll, they will leave. 

[Oxford]

8 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Not Switzerland, no. I was thinking more like if you bought a knock-off Machiavelli from Wish 

Did you mean Machiavelli from "The Prince" ? otherwise I'm not with you and I'm slightly distracted by women asking for the vote in several of the Cantons!

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

Did you mean Machiavelli from "The Prince" ? otherwise I'm not with you and I'm slightly distracted by women asking for the vote in several of the Cantons!

That would be correct. Or perhaps a Poundshop Frank Underwood? I wouldn't want to be too old fashioned 

[Oxford]

18 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

That would be correct. Or perhaps a Poundshop Frank Underwood? I wouldn't want to be too old fashioned 

Well you're not sitting on any fences HKB.

That'll be goodbye I reckon.

[The Future is League]

I can only imagine that a recent university or college leaver MIGHT apply as something to put on their CV or somebody who's out of work and having trouble finding a job

[Anita Bath]

Sean Dyche? Frank Lampard?

[Dave T]

13 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I can only imagine that a recent university or college leaver MIGHT apply as something to put on their CV or somebody who's out of work and having trouble finding a job

That salary and job is above a marketing grad level. 

[Kirmonds pouch]

On 21/01/2023 at 18:09, gingerjon said:

RL Commercial is recruiting for a Senior Marketing Manager.

Assuming this actually is the job that one person is expected to do then I have only one comment.

Look at that salary.

https://www.rugby-league.com/uploads/docs/RL Commercial_Snr Marketing Manager_V1.pdf

Wow how can anyone live on that - I’m being sarcastic by the way.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Kirmonds pouch

[Kirmonds pouch]

On 21/01/2023 at 20:13, Number 16 said:

I get that working in a warehouse! 

How much Woody and The Rimmer get at the top of the tree?

Lol yeah of course you do, that’s your basic is it?

[Number 16]

1 hour ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Lol yeah of course you do, that’s your basic is it?

Well, that's what it read on my last P60!

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

That salary and job is above a marketing grad level. 

But not much beyond what a 2 year experienced early career person would expect either. Tomato tomato?

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Wow how can anyone live on that - I’m being sarcastic by the way.

That's not really the point that people are making.  Sure, it's a salary that someone can live on, but fans of Rugby League want the Rugby Football League to attract top talent, if they can, to move the dial on how the game is presented in this country.

[Dave T]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

But not much beyond what a 2 year experienced early career person would expect either. Tomato tomato?

It is really in this field. I'm based in Edinburgh in banking and that isn't a salary that we'd offer that only gets attention from new grads or unemployed. 

I'm always critical of the RFL's recruitment and salary bands, but in this instance I think it's slightly better than some historic examples. Still miserly, and I think the bigger picture is that it doesn't set you up for talent retention and progression - although there are plenty of staff who have been with the RFL for a long time, so maybe it ain't that bad once you are in. 

[RP London]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is really in this field. I'm based in Edinburgh in banking and that isn't a salary that we'd offer that only gets attention from new grads or unemployed. 

I'm always critical of the RFL's recruitment and salary bands, but in this instance I think it's slightly better than some historic examples. Still miserly, and I think the bigger picture is that it doesn't set you up for talent retention and progression - although there are plenty of staff who have been with the RFL for a long time, so maybe it ain't that bad once you are in. 

That pay scale is Ok to poor for that job (the equivalent) in my wife's work (marketing at a university) and they are losing people to places like the Department of Education on a regular basis as they are paying London weighting wages for jobs that are heavily work from home. Also I am aware of the level of those people and it is very hit and miss, sometimes someone great but you need to keep them moving up (which you can do in a big organisation) or its someone who plods and needs a lot of hand holding.

I would say for someone to do that job competently and not need to be chaperoned through it its about 10k short. If they are going to entice people or keep them then they need to pay more than that otherwise the same thing will happen to them and they'll leave. While turnover of staff is fine you want to keep them for a bit of time before hand, if you wanted to have someone for a couple of years and then move on to be replaced then maybe 5k more but if you want someone who can come in, hit the ground running and not be looking for a new job in about 1 year its 10k IMHO

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by RP London

[JohnM]

£42.8K from 53 reported salaries for Senior Marketing Executive (which I assume means executing stuff) 

Salary: Senior Marketing Executive (January, 2023) | Glassdoor

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

reported salaries for Senior Marketing Executive (which I assume means executing stuff) 

That's odd because I just thought it meant the one with the longest lunches and a large clipboard.

 

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

£42.8K from 53 reported salaries for Senior Marketing Executive (which I assume means executing stuff) 

Salary: Senior Marketing Executive (January, 2023) | Glassdoor

cheers.. so about 5k from the top of the offered band 10 from the bottom..  they're going to struggle to get someone that can do the job they are asking for, or at least keep them if they get them IMO. 

[RP London]

Just now, Oxford said:

That's odd because I just thought it meant the one with the longest lunches and a large clipboard.

 

It can mean 2 things.. 

[DI Keith Fowler]

It's not as wildly low as we often see for RFL jobs. It's obviously not high and is at the low end of the market, however materially given they're working under a Head of Marketing & presumably an IMG consultant they job is probably more akin to a Marketing Assistant for which the pay isn't unreasonable. Obviously it differs industry to industry, as others have alluded to there's a lot of people who want to work in sports and are more forgiving of earning less than the equivalent role in another industry.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

That pay scale is Ok to poor for that job (the equivalent) in my wife's work (marketing at a university) and they are losing people to places like the Department of Education on a regular basis as they are paying London weighting wages for jobs that are heavily work from home. Also I am aware of the level of those people and it is very hit and miss, sometimes someone great but you need to keep them moving up (which you can do in a big organisation) or its someone who plods and needs a lot of hand holding.

I would say for someone to do that job competently and not need to be chaperoned through it its about 10k short. If they are going to entice people or keep them then they need to pay more than that otherwise the same thing will happen to them and they'll leave. While turnover of staff is fine you want to keep them for a bit of time before hand, if you wanted to have someone for a couple of years and then move on to be replaced then maybe 5k more but if you want someone who can come in, hit the ground running and not be looking for a new job in about 1 year its 10k IMHO

 

I think this goes back to the problem of what the actual real-life expectations, responsibilities and objectives are. These Role descriptions are often far too high level, and make the job sound like the person will be running the show, when in reality they are often just in delivery/execution. 

In our structure Executive is used for lower roles, but as per John's message, there is Senior Marketing Exec roles, which is a contradiction within our stucture.

So, yes, I agree it appears modest (I think I described it as miserly!) - but I don't think it is shockingly low. And we have absolutely seen shockingly low salaries in the past from the RFL. TBH, i'm surprised that this isn't being advertised at around 28k.