IMG proposals

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Oxford said:

I can't believe that you think that's what I said Dave.

I'm not into your paranoia, so I answered your post based on your wording of "that will depend on criteria used". 

[Oxford]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not into your paranoia, so I answered your post based on your wording of "that will depend on criteria used". 

Paranoia Dave ?

Okay no problem, take care & be well.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

53 minutes ago, Dave T said:

In part. We can't ignore the complete lack of foundation. I'm not sure the model of spending millions and millions of quid a year and not paying bills and going bust is one we should follow. 

But there are things to learn in PR, branding, event management etc. 

I still don't understand how they got near 5 figure crowds regularly ...it was fantastic and looked great

The equivalent Toronto Arrows get no where near 

You think it was the PR bit that got them it? Wish they could do that here 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[Oxford]

9 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Wish they could do that here 

You've read and seen the reactions on here among the people who love TGG. We all wish they could do that here, but will spend more time bringing them down  a peg or two.

[The Future is League]

Well said Gary Hetherington.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/21200950/super-league-img-money-crowds/

[Gerrumonside ref]

12 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I still don't understand how they got near 5 figure crowds regularly ...it was fantastic and looked great

The equivalent Toronto Arrows get no where near 

You think it was the PR bit that got them it? Wish they could do that here 

It looked like a happening to me and a bit of fun at Toronto.

They set out their stall to make their games an event and others saw this and are adopting it.

 

[Dave T]

19 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I still don't understand how they got near 5 figure crowds regularly ...it was fantastic and looked great

The equivalent Toronto Arrows get no where near 

You think it was the PR bit that got them it? Wish they could do that here 

In reality, we have seen it here. Bradford was the extreme example, but London have delivered some big events, Catalans have grown into a large team, even Wire have grown massively in my lifetime, Saints are now far bigger. PSG got a couple of huge crowds, Crusaders did. 

It's all ultimately a waste when they go belly up. And that isn't a criticism of those clubs, it's bloody hard and bloody expensive. 

[Oxford]

That Sun article  (can't believe I read something from that Paper!) said literally nothing, it was a competition to fit as many positive sound bites as possible and neither explaned or illuminated anything except Gary's excitement about the process.

 

[steve oates]

On 30/01/2023 at 20:48, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I still don't understand how they got near 5 figure crowds regularly ...it was fantastic and looked great

They didn't.  The Wolfpack gave out free tickets like confetti, and put on a Beer festival alongside the game, and left the gate open so people could come and go  as they please. Visiting fans often commentated on this, but what was not to like, the club tried everything to build interest.

That included a winning team that trod on Leigh's toes to get to Superleague (there's always something that stuff's Leigh's ambitions) but the problem was the Salary cap and recruitment. Here we had a Billionaire owner ready to become big in Superleague, but could not use those Billions, and could not find the players apart from the Marquee signing.

[steve oates]

On 30/01/2023 at 19:40, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

If IMG can get some/any British clubs to do a Toronto we'll be laughing .....maybe they can

I think you will find that the Master Mind behind Toronto's rise, has already created a club in Cornwall, and it's doing very well isn't it??

[Oxford]

Let's examine Endeavours ideas according to Gary "the Man" Hetherington.

They may not have realised how difficult a task they've taken on and the clubs will have to do alot of the work because IMG can't manage it on their own.

So the question is : How does this stack up against other such organisations in other sports. A lot is made of darts for example shining a light on their progress and laying the success fairly and squarely on the business group behind the pastime's progress.

But are Darts and RL equivalent in any sense in the sporting environment?

As far as I know the history of the split, a great deal of jiggery pokery, bias and even sporting bans have never been a part of Darts development as an event.

Maybe darts' time had simply arrived. Perhaps sitting inside where's it's warm and drinking lots has more to do with the obvious success they've had. Maybe the fact that you can pick arras up in a pub so easily or even buy a set for your home had more to do with the progress than any business or marketing influence.

According to all the understanding of groups like Endeavour their involvement more or less guarantees success and Gary certainly thinks it does but looking at the things they've been involved with, none seem to be in anything like the same position as RL.

 

 

[RP London]

50 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Let's examine Endeavours ideas according to Gary "the Man" Hetherington.

They may not have realised how difficult a task they've taken on and the clubs will have to do alot of the work because IMG can't manage it on their own.

So the question is : How does this stack up against other such organisations in other sports. A lot is made of darts for example shining a light on their progress and laying the success fairly and squarely on the business group behind the pastime's progress.

But are Darts and RL equivalent in any sense in the sporting environment?

As far as I know the history of the split, a great deal of jiggery pokery, bias and even sporting bans have never been a part of Darts development as an event.

Maybe darts' time had simply arrived. Perhaps sitting inside where's it's warm and drinking lots has more to do with the obvious success they've had. Maybe the fact that you can pick arras up in a pub so easily or even buy a set for your home had more to do with the progress than any business or marketing influence.

According to all the understanding of groups like Endeavour their involvement more or less guarantees success and Gary certainly thinks it does but looking at the things they've been involved with, none seem to be in anything like the same position as RL.

 

 

I dont think anyone would think its easy and the way that Darts has been transformed is not the way that you would transform anything else, and the actual transformation would be different and success would be judged differently.. it would be utter madness to think otherwise to be fair. 

In terms of what GH is saying (very little in terms of this article) again its common sense. Whatever IMG or Endeavour suggest is going to need the buy in and the work of clubs to do their part. IMG or Endeavour can only do so much the clubs will need to do the rest. For example they can make a product everyone wants to go to see but if they then turn up to a rubbish little ground with wee trickling down the steps then people are unlikely to come back (just 1 example). 

Dart developed out of the pubs and into more "venues" which has no doubt helped. They jazzed the actual day up etc.. if the players hadn't gone along with that and just said "no i don't want walk on music or to realise i'm there to entertain" then they would have struggled. It needs buy in and that IMHO is what GH is getting at.. you just wonder if some clubs are grumbling that they may actually have to do something themselves and its a bit of a "warning shot" from GH

[Oxford]

On 01/02/2023 at 15:08, RP London said:

I dont think anyone would think its easy and the way that Darts has been transformed is not the way that you would transform anything else,

That's exactly my first point.

 

On 01/02/2023 at 15:08, RP London said:

(very little in terms of this article

said that eslewhere too

On 01/02/2023 at 15:08, RP London said:

Dart developed out of the pubs and into more "venues" which has no doubt helped.

Although I stated that RL is pretty unique in what it's up against and how it would have to transform itself I was more refering to the idea that whoever came in to change things would find it amazingly difficult compared with other event led activities.

The lack of media coverage and to some extent anti media coverage is not something usually associated with New York Fashion Week.

The one thing I would hope and TBH hoped to have seen before now is IMG's ability to engage with the media and create an appetite for more from the legacy mainstream press.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Oxford

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

In terms of what GH is saying (very little in terms of this article) again its common sense. Whatever IMG or Endeavour suggest is going to need the buy in and the work of clubs to do their part. IMG or Endeavour can only do so much the clubs will need to do the rest. For example they can make a product everyone wants to go to see but if they then turn up to a rubbish little ground with wee trickling down the steps then people are unlikely to come back (just 1 example). 

Not only this, but the scope of IMG's work will always have its limits. 

I think there is more to read into Hetherington's comments than the article pehaps suggests, because one of the biggest things that I've been wary off in all of this discussion about RL needing "someone to come in" - whether that is IMG or whether it was the Hearns - is that it always seems to come from the position of them coming in as a "saviour" who can "fix it for us". That was never realistic and it isn't ever going to happen.

Where IMG are going to add value is in the areas where we don't really have the resource or expertise within the sport already - things like digital and content, which require significant investment in tech and infrastructure, as well as skill and experience in creating, deploying and monetizing it. That's an something that they have that we don't.  

What they're not going to do is take responsibility for getting more turnstile clicks at club level or increasing the profitability of ticket sales. They're not going to take responsibility for increasing the value of club shirt sponsorships, selling corporate hospitality, improving matchday experience, or media and PR relations at club level - and yet I think there's a very reasonable chance that from some quarters within the sport, those sorts of criticisms will be levelled should metrics at club level not be met. 

If what Hetherington is saying is that IMG are a partner and not a saviour, he's bang on the money. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by whatmichaelsays

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

14 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Not only this, but the scope of IMG's work will always have its limits. 

I think there is more to read into Hetherington's comments than the article pehaps suggests, because one of the biggest things that I've been wary off in all of this discussion about RL needing "someone to come in" - whether that is IMG or whether it was the Hearns - is that it always seems to come from the position of them coming in as a "saviour" who can "fix it for us". That was never realistic and it isn't ever going to happen.

Where IMG are going to add value is in the areas where we don't really have the resource or expertise within the sport already - things like digital and content, which require significant investment in tech and infrastructure, as well as skill and experience in creating, deploying and monetizing it. That's an something that they have that we don't.  

What they're not going to do is take responsibility for getting more turnstile clicks at club level or increasing the profitability of ticket sales. They're not going to take responsibility for increasing the value of club shirt sponsorships, selling corporate hospitality, improving matchday experience, or media and PR relations at club level - and yet I think there's a very reasonable chance that from some quarters within the sport, those sorts of criticisms will be levelled should metrics at club level not be met. 

If what Hetherington is saying is that IMG are a partner and not a saviour, he's bang on the money. 

Exactly this

And yet the usual suspects will try and frame this natural continued role of the clubs in their future success as some sort of roll-back, or an admission that the job is somewhat harder than expected. Based on nothing other than their own imagination, and previous straw men of their construction. Like anyone coming in couldn't see precisely what our starting point was, how challenging it would be and how long it might take? As if.

The only people expecting instant miracles are some fans. The clubs and IMG seem to know how long the road will be. The 12 year contract might act as some sort of clue...

 

 

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Where IMG are going to add value is in the areas where we don't really have the resource or expertise within the sport already - things like digital and content, which require significant investment in tech and infrastructure, as well as skill and experience in creating, deploying and monetizing it. That's an something that they have that we don't.

Top post that wms, though I would like to see some evidence that this is correct and happening.

I'll be grateful if, afterwards, we have a bigger media presence overall but especially in those areas where youthful customers reside and spend their hard earned.

 

[The Future is League]

On 25/01/2023 at 02:14, Toby Chopra said:

The only thing I've seen them say is that it will be based on actual existing facilities, not promises. Other than that, no more details coming until March, apparently. 

That's the way it should be

[Oxford]

9 hours ago, The Future is League said:

That's the way it should be

So I've always heard ....

[Oxford]

On 02/02/2023 at 06:59, The Future is League said:

That's the way it should be

 

19 hours ago, Oxford said:

So I've always heard ....

Well The Future is League not a Carly Simon fan then!

[Oxford]

Here's a genuine question:

 

What will the measures be that show IMG have succeeded?

What criteria will we use to prove they've cracked it?

In politics it's simple they win an election and after that they can be as rubbish as the want to be, but in changing a sport's whole outlook????

[Dave T]

37 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Here's a genuine question:

 

What will the measures be that show IMG have succeeded?

What criteria will we use to prove they've cracked it?

In politics it's simple they win an election and after that they can be as rubbish as the want to be, but in changing a sport's whole outlook????

I think we need to try and move away from looking at this in terms of IMG being the saviour of the sport - not that I believe the sport needs a saviour anyway). I think this is what Hetherington is getting at. 

They are a partner who bring expertise to the table in areas like broadcasting, marketing, strategies, sponsorship, digital etc. From what we know so far, they won't get paid until the sport hits certain commercial income numbers and then they take a cut. So on a simple basis the key measure is commercial revenues, indeed even the JV they have formed is named RL Commercial. 

But when you look deeper, it is clear that the real value to IMG can only come on the back of longer term sustainable growth. Just going in to negotiate us a new TV deal and a couple of sponsors now may see them get a couple of million quid, but I'm certain they aren't partnering with us to make that kind of amount. 

The real value comes if we see proper growth in revenues, that grow year on year, and then at the end of the 12 years the partnership is going so well that it's a no-brained to extend and they make more money.

It's where I think we've been sensible, the deal works under those conditions, and to deliver long term sustainable but substantial growth, you need to fix fundamentals and quick fixes won't do that. It should help to protect us against short term decisions that maybe see us make more money this decade, but player participation drop off a cliff for example. Success can't be doubling revenues but halving players. 

[Oxford]

The thing is, as usual it has to be said, IMG have brought out two seeming opposed factions. Except I'm not sure they are opposing.

For those who see only or mostly positives about categories and criteria it must seem anyone not entirely on board doesn't want them, again I'm not sure this is the case.

If having the categories etc is the first you you think of when talking promotion of the game to a wider audience and enlarging your fanbase I can see why.

I know some of this appears to be based on the idea that some clubs are pulling their weight whilst others are holding the whole thing back but to be frank that's a complete myth as all clubs are working as hard as they can to improve. It's one of those things that isn't necessarily true because it's common currency.

Whilst inferior sporting products are shouting about their events from the rooftops we're about to start a new season playing the invisible man.

But don't worry because the categories'll sort that out!

Edited February 4, 2023 by Oxford

[Exiled Wiganer]

Here’s what I would do: 

- grow the north: ALL of the north: Sheffield, Newcastle, Liverpool… places where we have toeholds, and have attracted crowds; 

- get development officers galore in London and the south east, and make sure we stage 2/3 events in London (including the cup final and an international) every year: treat London as the NFL do. We don’t need a SL team there to develop players or persuade TENS of thousands of people to games; and 

- use SL as a means of developing France and Wales as international forces to be reckoned with, as their strength would transform the game. Maybe have salary cap exemptions for u—- players. Whatever it takes. 

And that’s it. Each of these is building on things we have achieved in the past, even if some of it was a long time ago. We already have proof of concept - 10s of thousands of people from the north east and London turned out for the World Cup (while 20 people and a dog turned up in Hull). We are having a World Cup in France with millions of euros pumped into it by the French Government, so there is the perfect window to help them become a realistic international competitor. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Exiled Wiganer

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

 

Whilst inferior sporting products are shouting about their events from the rooftops we're about to start a new season playing the invisible man.

 

Can you link to the adverts taht other sports have done? 

We hear this literally every year. And it isn't true. 

We get moans that Sky don't include us in their ads, and yet I see us on Sky sports ads all the time at the moment. We have just shared SL's first official ad, with the promise of more to come. We have had loads of noise about what the likes of Hull KR and Leigh are doing for their openers. We are seeing pre-season games happen. We're starting to have season launches. Clubs are doing plenty within their spaces. We are doing the same as other sports. 

We're still almost two weeks away from the start of the season, I'm not sure what people are expecting right now. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Dave T

[Oxford]

16 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think we need to try and move away from looking at this in terms of IMG being the saviour of the sport - not that I believe the sport needs a saviour anyway). I think this is what Hetherington is getting at. 

Well that's the way this has been portrayed, a bit like involving the darts gurus.

Another questions then: How do the categories/SL create a wider fan base ?

I hope this doesn't bring out better run clubs produce blah blah blah by  the way.