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Differential Penalty scrapped


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One of the new rule changes adopted for next season. Not sure that it will improve things. 

Being an old cynic I can see more scrums in tight games and attempts to milk penalties in order to get a chance of 2pts. Just hope we don't start seeing some of the rugby Union antics around the scrums. 

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Not even sure how a team would go about milking a penalty at a scrum when every law of the scrum is broken in every scrum in every game and no penalties are given.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Not even sure how a team would go about milking a penalty at a scrum when every law of the scrum is broken in every scrum in every game and no penalties are given.

One that you see often is the offside trap. 

Don't worry players and coaches are very quick to think of these things. I am sure it won't be long into the season before we see a scrum penalty and the 2pts gained winning the game with seconds to go. 

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1 minute ago, Agbrigg said:

One that you see often is the offside trap. 

Don't worry players and coaches are very quick to think of these things. I am sure it won't be long into the season before we see a scrum penalty and the 2pts gained winning the game with seconds to go. 

That makes it a good change then.  If teams are giving away differential penalties by being offside at scrums (stifling creative play) knowing they will not be conceding points, then taking that option away from them is a positive. 

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 hour ago, Number 16 said:

I'll miss the ref's signal for a differential, it's the only one that requires any real effort.

What about obstruction, where the player runs behind a team mate. Where the referee makes a movement with the hand behind his back. They don’t get anymore difficult than that.

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I don't mind this rule change but I think it needed to go hand in hand with banning, holding the ball at the back of the scrum to try and catch teams out. It's just gamesmanship. Difficult to enforce though, maybe say that the PTB has taken place when the ball enters the scrum as opposed to when it comes out.

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1 hour ago, Spidey said:

What exactly does this achieve?  I don’t think there was any issues with the differential penalty, so why change?

As I stated above - teams were choosing to give away the differential penalty by deliberately going offside, because defending the first play from a tap start with 13 defenders ranged across the field is patently easier than with six men in the scrum and a seventh obliged to stand directly behind the loose forward.

For the attacking team, a scrum centre-field within striking distance of the opponents' line is a cracking scoring opportunity, in fact you could say they ought to score every time if they get their timing right given the advantage they have in terms of player movement to create overlaps. It's no wonder defences were starting to deliberately concede penalties and the rule change to allow penalty goals is a counter to that.

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13 hours ago, Oxford said:

Hardly Earth shattering though, eh?

Lucky to see half a dozen differential penalties a season.  Obviously nothing changes outside goalkicking range.

It's nice to have a new season with so few rule changes - this and the 18th man.  Neither of which is likely to have a massive impact.  Seven 18th men were used in the NRL last year in 201 games, just to set down a yardstick.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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16 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

As I stated above - teams were choosing to give away the differential penalty by deliberately going offside, because defending the first play from a tap start with 13 defenders ranged across the field is patently easier than with six men in the scrum and a seventh obliged to stand directly behind the loose forward.

For the attacking team, a scrum centre-field within striking distance of the opponents' line is a cracking scoring opportunity, in fact you could say they ought to score every time if they get their timing right given the advantage they have in terms of player movement to create overlaps. It's no wonder defences were starting to deliberately concede penalties and the rule change to allow penalty goals is a counter to that.

Might still be worth conceding two points, then.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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6 minutes ago, Griff said:

Might still be worth conceding two points, then.

That "ought to score" is based on getting the movements precisely right though. I doubt teams will want to deliberately concede 2 points unless, say, they're maybe 10 points up with a few minutes to go.

I think this is a rule change where we won't "see" the impact - I don't think many kickable penalties will be conceded because of the new rule, but we might see fewer offsides at scrums.

 

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1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

That "ought to score" is based on getting the movements precisely right though. I doubt teams will want to deliberately concede 2 points unless, say, they're maybe 10 points up with a few minutes to go.

I think this is a rule change where we won't "see" the impact - I don't think many kickable penalties will be conceded because of the new rule, but we might see fewer offsides at scrums.

 

Oh aye, sure.  The scoreboard matters.  If you're four points down with two minutes to go, you're always going to run it.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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6 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

As I stated above - teams were choosing to give away the differential penalty by deliberately going offside, because defending the first play from a tap start with 13 defenders ranged across the field is patently easier than with six men in the scrum and a seventh obliged to stand directly behind the loose forward.

For the attacking team, a scrum centre-field within striking distance of the opponents' line is a cracking scoring opportunity, in fact you could say they ought to score every time if they get their timing right given the advantage they have in terms of player movement to create overlaps. It's no wonder defences were starting to deliberately concede penalties and the rule change to allow penalty goals is a counter to that.

Was the amount of differential penalties causing a concern?  I don’t remember it being an issue

Now six again and ruck infringements there’s plenty to look at.  But was this really such an issue?

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12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Was the amount of differential penalties causing a concern?  I don’t remember it being an issue

 

I remember seeing it often enough to think that the smarter players/coaches had worked out that going deliberately offside at a scrum inside your own 20m was very much the smart thing to do. I think the rule change is targeted at that specific tactic.

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1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Was the amount of differential penalties causing a concern?  I don’t remember it being an issue

Now six again and ruck infringements there’s plenty to look at.  But was this really such an issue?

Any law which the defending team work out is better to break and give them an advantage needs reviewing.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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14 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I mean, if you just get rid of the scrum altogether, the differential penalty won't matter anyway!

Horseman is talking about an opportunity where the attacking team should almost always score.  You're advocating abolishing that opportunity.

Bit of a dichotomy of opinion there.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Last season Wigan put on some really good attacking plays direct from the scrum in the first few games. By the middle to later part of the season I don't think we had a single scrum in an attacking position that didn't result in a differential penalty because the defence just deliberately went offside so they could get to Field and French.

Unsurprisingly I think it's an excellent rule change. It's the best attacking set piece in the game and we need to ensure that it can be used to its full advantage. Not that I blame the teams for deliberately being offside. It was quite obviously the best option in the circumstances but that's why laws need to be tweaked from time to time. 

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On 03/02/2023 at 15:45, Spidey said:

Was the amount of differential penalties causing a concern?  I don’t remember it being an issue

Now six again and ruck infringements there’s plenty to look at.  But was this really such an issue?

Last year it was happened a lot, it became a trend, a couple of players got sin binned on sky games, which confused everyone

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