International Rugby League being amateurish

[Jughead]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/how-can-you-say-theres-a-european-championship/

Rugby League never changes. 

[Madrileño]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

 

Rugby League never changes. 

Agreed. An utter shambles.

If I was Brierley, I would be off on holiday. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

Maybe England should put a proper side note not the Euro champ and give it 5 years to build 

[The Masked Poster]

My main focus is international RL. After 2013 I thought things were going to change for the better.

To quote Jim Diamond "I should have known better". 

[JohnM]

"The appetite for more international rugby league is there"

Yes, For England Vs Aus and NZ.  

 

[ShropshireBull]

Denial is the first stage and NH rl is still stuck there. The sh sides are not coming back. They don’t need to and they don’t want to.

The begging is pathetic at this stage. Put in the effort to grow it here or give it a rest 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Denial is the first stage and NH rl is still stuck there. The sh sides are not coming back. They don’t need to and they don’t want to.

The begging is pathetic at this stage. Put in the effort to grow it here or give it a rest 

Right now, the SH sides have no plans, strategy, dates etc either.

The way things are going they may not even have a season.

[ShropshireBull]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The way things are going they may not even have a season

It will be sorted before then. SH RL doesn’t need internationals but if they do have them there is zero need to involve England. Aus Kiwi Tonga Samoa . Four nations in their time zone in their control. 

The sooner the RFL and fans stop begging the sooner it can get serious about growing its own product. 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

It will be sorted before then. SH RL doesn’t need internationals but if they do have them there is zero need to involve England. Aus Kiwi Tonga Samoa . Four nations in their time zone in their control. 

The sooner the RFL and fans stop begging the sooner it can get serious about growing its own product. 

No one's begging, mate.

That's just your language for someone having a discussion you'd rather they weren't having.

[ShropshireBull]

“But the southern hemisphere nations are key to the international calendar being confirmed“   It is begging. It is a servile mentality of ‘maybe Australia, maybe Kiwis ‘

They binned off a tour in covid with no timescale to come back. They then binned of a tournament because they didn’t want to travel, dramatically reducing it and costing it money.

How many times do they need to tell NH RFL they don’t care before it sinks in

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No one's begging, mate.

That's just your language for someone having a discussion you'd rather they weren't having.

 

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

“But the southern hemisphere nations are key to the international calendar being confirmed“   

The fact that you think that leads to 'servile' and 'begging' says more about you than what's being said there.

[JohnM]

If the Aussies are so determined not to come here, they'll have no problem with the RFL banning our clubs from signing any Aussie players.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

If the Aussies are so determined not to come here, they'll have no problem with the RFL banning our clubs from signing any Aussie players.

Well, that escalated quickly.

Probably an illegal action, anyway. What with the trade deal between the UK and Australia.

[glossop saint]

8 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Maybe England should put a proper side note not the Euro champ and give it 5 years to build 

Just out of interest, where do you see the Euro Champs in 5 years if this happens? Both realistically and best case scenario. Thanks.

[Oxford]

10 hours ago, Jughead said:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/how-can-you-say-theres-a-european-championship/

Rugby League never changes. 

One of the first things the article says is that there is an appetite for the international game and games but I'm not sure this is true anymore.

I think being beaten by the Aussies since the last century, covid lock downs and an aging fan base among some more minor ailments have seen that diminish to a huge extent.

And who is it that has this appetite on the whole players do quite naturally but I'm not convinced either the NRL or SL really do any longer?

Between the NRL attitude to not turning up and playing the role of we turn up so we win what's the point?

The European Championship is both looked on and treated as second rate so we have all sorts of problems based on that idea.

Squeezing internationals into your calendar rather than building your programme around them is at the root of all this.

 

Edited February 8 by Oxford

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Oxford said:

One of the first things the article says is that there is an appetite for the international game and games but I'm not sure this is true anymore.

I think being beaten by the Aussies since the last century, covid lock downs and an aging fan base among some more minor ailments have seen that diminish to a huge extent.

And who is it that has this appetite on the whole players do quite naturally but I'm not convinced either the NRL or SL really do any longer?

Between the NRL attitude to not turning up and playing the role of we turn up so we win what's the point?

The European Championship is both looked on and treated as second rate so we have all sorts of problems based on that idea.

Squeezing internationals into your calendar rather than building your programme around them is at the root of all this.

 

I disagree that there isn’t an appetite for international rugby league. Over 100,000 people watched England live in non-RL strongholds of Newcastle, Sheffield and London and we drew some pretty respectable viewing figures on BBC. I most definitely think there is an appetite for international rugby league, even if some of those actually aren’t full-time fans of the sport or our domestic clubs. 

 

[Oxford]

43 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I disagree that there isn’t an appetite for international rugby league. Over 100,000 people watched England live in non-RL strongholds of Newcastle, Sheffield and London and we drew some pretty respectable viewing figures on BBC. I most definitely think there is an appetite for international rugby league, even if some of those actually aren’t full-time fans of the sport or our domestic clubs. 

 

I can see why you say that Jughead but that doesn't contradict anything I pointed out.

If the Aussies don't see a point in having them for whatever reason, and there is a false logic to that, that is not an appetite. And this will remain that way until someone in charge of the NRL sees how crucial it is. There are some very vociferous champions inside the NRL but they seem to shouting at the wind.

Also an appetite is a good word for fancying something but without a chef that's all it will ever remain.

[RP London]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Right now, the SH sides have no plans, strategy, dates etc either.

The way things are going they may not even have a season.

exactly, accept that it isn't going to happen, which is no bad thing as it builds anticipation for the next time they do, and get the European Champs in the calendar with dates and venues so we can get "selling" it. 

England need to put a strong team out that will get people to the games, they need to hold games outside of the heartlands and they need to put a structure into the tournament that can build it to a climax where there is a proper trophy game. 

This year will not pull up any trees but we have to start somewhere. 

[Sports Prophet]

18 minutes ago, RP London said:

exactly, accept that it isn't going to happen, which is no bad thing as it builds anticipation for the next time they do, and get the European Champs in the calendar with dates and venues so we can get "selling" it. 

England need to put a strong team out that will get people to the games, they need to hold games outside of the heartlands and they need to put a structure into the tournament that can build it to a climax where there is a proper trophy game. 

This year will not pull up any trees but we have to start somewhere. 

Yeah, I would rather see two years of no internationals between Aus and England, only for England to come out and stick it up the Kangaroos out of the blue in France ‘25.

[Big Picture]

19 minutes ago, RP London said:

exactly, accept that it isn't going to happen, which is no bad thing as it builds anticipation for the next time they do, and get the European Champs in the calendar with dates and venues so we can get "selling" it. 

England need to put a strong team out that will get people to the games, they need to hold games outside of the heartlands and they need to put a structure into the tournament that can build it to a climax where there is a proper trophy game. 

This year will not pull up any trees but we have to start somewhere. 

They won't do it the way you would like though, they'll do it on the cheap instead.  That's how they've always done it and it's all they can afford to do, especially in the absence of any profit from the recent World Cup despite all those millions of pounds from the UK government which rightly should have guaranteed a profit.

They likely see playing outside the heartlands as very risky if it's not a World Cup or an Aussie/Kiwi tour too.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, glossop saint said:

Just out of interest, where do you see the Euro Champs in 5 years if this happens? Both realistically and best case scenario. Thanks.

High end I'd like to think getting a 10,000 crowd for England games could be reasonable as a target 

Using England based players against the very best Ireland team (on paper for the WC they should have been decent) might be competitive enough eventually 

Just think it's worth a proper 5 year go

[RP London]

13 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

They won't do it the way you would like though, they'll do it on the cheap instead.  That's how they've always done it and it's all they can afford to do, especially in the absence of any profit from the recent World Cup despite all those millions of pounds from the UK government which rightly should have guaranteed a profit.

They likely see playing outside the heartlands as very risky if it's not a World Cup or an Aussie/Kiwi tour too.

Why not the way I would like (which isnt 1 way, there are umpteen ways to do what I have suggested)? and why is my way more expensive?

Are stadiums outside the heartlands more expensive to hire than in it?

are the capitals of other countries or major playing areas within them now the heartlands?

Yes they may be more risky but Doncaster, Sheffield (as examples) etc is not the heartlands and they could be played at without a massive risk as its close enough and there is potentially more to gain by one game there. 

The tournament could be 2 groups based in 2 countries.. a France base and an England base, it could be 2 groups with home matches for each nation, it could be 1 giant group all playing each other, it could 3 groups in 3 places etc etc etc.. all of which allow you to play different games in different places.. my main hope is to have some games outside the Hull, Leeds, Bolton, Leigh, Manchester norm (this could be Edinburgh, Cardiff, Sheffield, Coventry etc) and to have it build to a crescendo.. 

If they did it all based around Hull and Leeds then it wouldnt be ideal but its still better than nothing (i would just prefer a bit of risk)

Or we could just not bother... 

 

Edited February 8 by RP London

[ShropshireBull]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The fact that you think that leads to 'servile' and 'begging' says more about you than what's being said there.

What a wonderfully childish  way not to engage with the point at hand and deflect.

If you are constantly asking someone to do something and they keep saying no you are begging. I loved those four nations games but it’s time people grew up and realized they aren’t coming back.

[Exiled Wiganer]

The usual suspects piling in…

I read that article and the one linked to it, as being sensible and measured. We live in a funny world at the moment. There is a massive appetite for international games in the NH - only a few months ago, I attended 4 games with over 20k people there, with twice that in London and Newcastle and over 3 times that for the final. None of those games was a combination of eng, oz and nz. 

It’s simple enough, we currently need the ARL to sign off the international calendar. We would all like it to have been settled last year, but we are where we are. From the NH perspective, that’s frustrating. It is though a consequence of our game being the biggest sport in the South Pacific region, and the strength in depth in the teams fielded down there. More people are playing, watching and involved in TGG in the region than ever before, and that’s ultimately a great thing. 

The solution in the medium term could not be clearer - put everything (cap exemptions for players, easier qualification rules) into establishing France as a major player again, and seeing how far Wales can go. That is within the gift of the NH game. In the meantime, we actually have more opportunities than ever before to have interesting incoming tours. Samoa, Tonga and soon PNG are strong enough to be worthy tourists. I would be thrilled to see a 3 match tour from either Samoa or Tonga. We’ll get there - these are literally growing pains. 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

The usual suspects piling in…

I read that article and the one linked to it, as being sensible and measured. We live in a funny world at the moment. There is a massive appetite for international games in the NH - only a few months ago, I attended 4 games with over 20k people there, with twice that in London and Newcastle and over 3 times that for the final. None of those games was a combination of eng, oz and nz. 

It’s simple enough, we currently need the ARL to sign off the international calendar. We would all like it to have been settled last year, but we are where we are. From the NH perspective, that’s frustrating. It is though a consequence of our game being the biggest sport in the South Pacific region, and the strength in depth in the teams fielded down there. More people are playing, watching and involved in TGG in the region than ever before, and that’s ultimately a great thing. 

The solution in the medium term could not be clearer - put everything (cap exemptions for players, easier qualification rules) into establishing France as a major player again, and seeing how far Wales can go. That is within the gift of the NH game. In the meantime, we actually have more opportunities than ever before to have interesting incoming tours. Samoa, Tonga and soon PNG are strong enough to be worthy tourists. I would be thrilled to see a 3 match tour from either Samoa or Tonga. We’ll get there - these are literally growing pains. 

To be fair, we know there will be a European Championship. Six of the eight countries involved are at a stage where it would be a bit if a surprise if they did have dates and venues for the winter lined up.

France know they're going to be involved but they're a shambles so who knows when they expect to do anything.

It's only England who we don't know. And, yes, that is very frustrating as momentum has been lost and nothing appears to have improved since the World Cup. But I will cut the RFL some slack as this isn't, for once, entirely their own fault. It's a problem caused by the V'landys shouting faction coming up against something that can't be shouted away.

Now, we can have a debate about whether we should wait to see if England can host a series or a tournament against someone from down under or go all in for the European Championship. My hunch is they won't be able to host anyone as no one will be willing to come for a whole bunch of reasons.

But we should be in no doubt that England playing some Euro games will not make any money whereas a series/tournament normally does.

And we need money.