International Rugby League being amateurish

[Jughead]

9 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Not hyperbole when figures in the game in the NRL shout about an international calendar and nothing happens, and their attitude to the WCC beggars belief and is further evidence.

All spot on but without that buy in by those who can actually make a calendar happen consistently and planned those figure are wasted.

The WCC thing is a myth, isn’t it? The NRL clubs, namely the Roosters, Storm, Rabbitohs and Panthers (who have had players return early from their off season to play next weekend) have taken the games seriously and where possible, fielded strong squads. In the past ten years, we’ve also had a short period where three Australian clubs were coming over but typically, we failed to deliver a worthwhile venture for all parties. The journalists in Australia who don’t talk the game up (whereas the coaches actually do) are no different to some of the journalists here, who’s opinions aren’t worth the webpage they’re written on. 

Equally, we have figures in the game here that bang on about international calendars and no different to the southern hemisphere, little happens (less in fact when the current England coach values exhibition games over bonafide internationals). The throwing of stones from The RFL’s/England’s glass house is comical. 

Much like Super League for many years, the international game has been allowed to self govern, which is not good for all parties involved. Either way, the finger pointing at Australia is embarrassing when some self reflection and self assessment would, certainly in the short term, go much further. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

Why has it become "fact" for some that the World Cup lost money?

The longer it goes without any announcement of profit is a bit of a red flag but, beyond that, we've had nowt since Dutton gave his vague briefing about breaking even.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

 

The solution in the medium term could not be clearer - put everything (cap exemptions for players, easier qualification rules) into establishing France as a major player again, and seeing how far Wales can go. That is within the gift of the NH game. In the meantime, we actually have more opportunities than ever before to have interesting incoming tours. Samoa, Tonga and soon PNG are strong enough to be worthy tourists. I would be thrilled to see a 3 match tour from either Samoa or Tonga. We’ll get there - these are literally growing pains. 

That is really important. To control what you can control. I think cap exemptions for France and Wales in SL is a fantastic idea outside ring-fencing teams into SL. Unfortunately the clubs can’t see the forrest as they are not directed by the club membership. Fan power is less powerful when an owner’s will is paramount.

Hard to draw the pacific nations into anything when the CBA for NRL players is yet to be ratified, but wouldn’t it be great if the RFL could organise a profit share with France, Wales, Samoa, Tonga and NZ for a two year, NH/SH series leading up to the WC. Leaving the Kangaroos out in the cold.

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

They have a perfectly good 4 nations tournament without us

Got a link for tickets?

[Oxford]

35 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Much like Super League for many years, the international game has been allowed to self govern, which is not good for all parties involved. Either way, the finger pointing at Australia is embarrassing when some self reflection and self assessment would, certainly in the short term, go much further. 

This last bit was a real shame because up until then you were spot on once again.

However, poitniting at the Aussies is a must because the NRL is essentially completely dominant in all arenas whether we like it or not.

If SL was in a similar position now I'd be pointing at them just as much.

The point was that the appetite is fragmented and relies on examples that illustrate the rule.

Giving anyone stick for not producing the goods where it matters is what we're here for, and calling something embarassing is not an argument but a silly put down.

13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

They´ve outgrown us and the sooner the RFL get out of denial and see that if NH want internationals for a tv audience we have to build our own NH market, the better off the sport will be. 

I agree to some extent but the idea they've outgrown us leads where? A completely insular NRL and a few OZ v NZ and the SOO. Now although these are terrific that's not outgrowing that's retreating.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

The usual suspects piling in…

I read that article and the one linked to it, as being sensible and measured. We live in a funny world at the moment. There is a massive appetite for international games in the NH - only a few months ago, I attended 4 games with over 20k people there, with twice that in London and Newcastle and over 3 times that for the final. None of those games was a combination of eng, oz and nz. 

It’s simple enough, we currently need the ARL to sign off the international calendar. We would all like it to have been settled last year, but we are where we are. From the NH perspective, that’s frustrating. It is though a consequence of our game being the biggest sport in the South Pacific region, and the strength in depth in the teams fielded down there. More people are playing, watching and involved in TGG in the region than ever before, and that’s ultimately a great thing. 

The solution in the medium term could not be clearer - put everything (cap exemptions for players, easier qualification rules) into establishing France as a major player again, and seeing how far Wales can go. That is within the gift of the NH game. In the meantime, we actually have more opportunities than ever before to have interesting incoming tours. Samoa, Tonga and soon PNG are strong enough to be worthy tourists. I would be thrilled to see a 3 match tour from either Samoa or Tonga. We’ll get there - these are literally growing pains. 

Agreed but like I say Ireland look a better bet than Wales do now (though I appreciate Wales a lot more home grown )

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

You can control growing France and Wales so the RFL and IMG should get on with doing that. 

Couldn't agree more!

[RP London]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

No it wasn´t semantics but this is a fairer response. Instead of taking the long hard road of building our own thing, which will take many years but long term leave the game in a better position, the  RFL and IMG are placing their hopes on an organisation that has proven time and again it is not interested, doesn´t care and has no financial incentive to do so. 

Of course the RFL and France may want all these things but not a single person on here can give me a reason why it is in the interest of the SH teams to do it. They have a perfectly good 4 nations tournament without us , that will involve the best players in the world , in the same time zone and they solely control. There is zero incentive for them to come. 

But let´s say, as a miracle, one of the SH teams come. You are still trapped in building the only area of growth for the game on actors who after, the Kangaroo tour that didn´t happen and the World Cup they shut down which has cost the sport millions here, you know you cannot trust.

That´s why I say it´s denial because people up here in NH still want to believe we are in early 2000´s and those great tri nations and 4 nations games are coming. If There will be a 4 nations next year it will be : Australia, Kiwis, Tonga, Samoa. 

They´ve outgrown us and the sooner the RFL get out of denial and see that if NH want internationals for a tv audience we have to build our own NH market, the better off the sport will be. 

I do understand what you are saying, and have agreed and said what I would like to see in past posts, but at no point does any of that mean we are begging.. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by RP London

[RP London]

 

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

You can control growing France and Wales so the RFL and IMG should get on with doing that. 

Damned if you do damned if you dont.. 

Do you see the posts on here and the absolute head melting that goes on when you suggest helping clubs in these areas??

I would help them as much as you can but its an unpopular move and an unpopular opinion to hold.  

[Oxford]

13 minutes ago, RP London said:

Do you see the posts on here and the absolute head melting that goes on when you suggest helping clubs in these areas??

Yep, it's like a science fiction film where someone channels all the negativity here from the next dimension.

[RL Tragic]

When and why did international RL stop being profitable. We had tri/four nations up to 2015 , I don’t understand at what point it stopped being viable 

[langpark]

I think I read somewhere that IRL cannot put anything concrete in place until the NRL pay dispute is resolved. 

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, langpark said:

I think I read somewhere that IRL cannot put anything concrete in place until the NRL pay dispute is resolved. 

I really hope that's correct but it sounds like a red herring, mostly because a calendar should've been sorted years ago for a least a decade in advance.

[JohnM]

12 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Well, that escalated quickly.

Probably an illegal action, anyway. What with the trade deal between the UK and Australia.

Quelle surprise! Right on cue!

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

I think I read somewhere that IRL cannot put anything concrete in place until the NRL pay dispute is resolved. 

Yup. The CBA includes things like release periods and international windows (I believe) so the IRL does appear to have its hands tied at the top level (as, I guess, do England if they want to pick any NRL players) as regards a calendar.

[Exiled Wiganer]

8 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Why has it become "fact" for some that the World Cup lost money?

It’s not true. It made more money by far than any other World Cup. 

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’s not true. It made more money by far than any other World Cup. 

We don't know that either.

[RP London]

13 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

No I get that, but it´s largely the same people dreaming about Australia and Kiwis coming to play. Lock in French teams with minimum players, lock in a welsh team with minimum players or lets all just shut up about taking the international game seriously. Even the NRL locked in a Kiwi team. 

absolutely.. couldn't possibly agree more. 

 

[Tommygilf]

I don't think it is controversial to believe that once the CBA is sorted, the NRL and its main playing nations aren't coming to the NH this Autumn - and never were going to.

I think the RFL were naïve. They didn't commit fully to the England schedule at the Euros because they were (indeed are) holding out for first a Kiwis, then a clear second choice Tonga/Samoa tour - it seems the Kangaroos were so clearly not interested even the SARL types didn't get any minor links.

The reality is that the leading SH nations neither need internationals nor need to travel for the internationals they can have. We are 3rd choice, and unfortunately our alternatives are limited and have been stunted by not having a good plan in place for what, even without hindsight, was a pretty obvious conclusion.

[RP London]

12 hours ago, Oxford said:

I really hope that's correct but it sounds like a red herring, mostly because a calendar should've been sorted years ago for a least a decade in advance.

Thats 2 very different things. 

Its not a red herring if its true, and from my understanding, as with others, it is only because the CBA does include release and rest periods post season and when they can be released. Therefore if we want NRL players to play in the European cup (and that includes Ireland, Italy, wales etc) then we need to hang fire. Let alone if we want to see if we can have a southern hemisphere team come and play

The second bit is bang on but we have all beaten that drum for the last 15 years or so.. and its an utter joke that we don't know what is happening at the end of this year. 

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

Its not a red herring if its true, and from my understanding,

RPL it can be as true as it likes but when there isn't a planned calendar any attempt to say it's because we might be on strike is a falsehood, the timetable is part of business planning and should be going ahead no matter what unforeseen and foreseen stuff might get in the way.

The players are going on strike not the management of the NRL.

And even if negotiations between players and management to center stage that wouldn't involve the whole of the NRL organisation.

[Mathius Hellwege]

English Knights to EC....the other seven nations have no right after their performance to do nothing

 

If the SH does not put up a short-term 5N at least one exciting country can be bought off for a tour where we play in Newcastle, Sheffiels, Birmingham and London

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

RPL it can be as true as it likes but when there isn't a planned calendar any attempt to say it's because we might be on strike is a falsehood, the timetable is part of business planning and should be going ahead no matter what unforeseen and foreseen stuff might get in the way.

The players are going on strike not the management of the NRL.

And even if negotiations between players and management to center stage that wouldn't involve the whole of the NRL organisation.

In the rest of the post that you deleted to just have that one snap shot to quote (and argue) I did point out that I agree that there should be a long timetable in place and if there had have been all of what is happening now would not have mattered so much. and of course there should be a long timetable in place we all agree, i cannot think of anyone on this board who has ever argued that there shouldnt be a long term international timetable in place. 

However, back in the world we actually inhabit, there isnt, therefore the CBA and the impact of the CBA on the players and therefore the governing bodies is having an impact on governing bodies knowing what they can and cannot feasibly do. Without the NRL players there is no tour.. therefore we go full swing into the Euros, however that will need to be done without the NRL players therefore it may affect the stadiums we should/could rent and also the timing of the event (can happen straight after the grand final where as if we want the NRL players we may have to wait a week or so for them to get over after the finals over there). That sadly is the reality of the situation. 

At some point they will just have to call it, but while they dont have to (which they dont at the minute, its not ideal but they really dont) then why not wait to see what the best you can do is?? but come March IMHO they need to be getting things organised and tickets on sale by end of March at the latest. 

None of that negates the fact we should not be in this position but its a point that will get us no where fast as we dont so what do we do now.. 

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

English Knights to EC....the other seven nations have no right after their performance to do nothing

 

If the SH does not put up a short-term 5N at least one exciting country can be bought off for a tour where we play in Newcastle, Sheffiels, Birmingham and London

except for the fact they may have no players available and we dont know until the CBA is sorted when their season might actually end and if/when those players are available to actually play the matches. How anyone can expect us to hire stadiums on this basis is beyond me.. 

Its a ###### situation and we shouldn't be in it, but we are.

The only viable alternative to "wait and see for a bit" is just go full swing at the Euros, with or without the NRL contingent for all and just book dates and venues and start selling.. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

except for the fact they may have no players available and we dont know until the CBA is sorted when their season might actually end and if/when those players are available to actually play the matches. How anyone can expect us to hire stadiums on this basis is beyond me.. 

Its a ###### situation and we shouldn't be in it, but we are.

The only viable alternative to "wait and see for a bit" is just go full swing at the Euros, with or without the NRL contingent for all and just book dates and venues and start selling.. 

yes, of course, we have to wait for the CBA....but then they will do nothing in the SH or something...but besides a 5N or a 6N there will be one interesting country left out which we can entice to come over

Of course long-term-planning would have been better

 

but for the first time I assume no sabotage but "just" bad luck with the prolongued negotiations