Thread on other Championship teams

[The Phantom Horseman]

Thought it was worth having a separate thread for discussing other teams in our division and who might be our biggest rivals, assuming we maintain our good start.

Toulouse looked very good at Barrow, especially with their line speed in defence, and on what I've seen look by some way the biggest threat to us. They are full time, which is obviously a big advantage, they have a good and experienced coach, and they will play fewer games than us (at least 1 and possibly several more) because they won't play in the Challenge Cup or the 1895 Cup.

I've only seen the tries from their 58-0 win over Newcastle and it's hard to gauge much from that because Newcastle looked absolutely woeful defensively. I think there will be a few more teams that go over to France and see the game as a bit of a write-off.

With that in mind it will be interesting to see how York get on today. They are a far better team than Newcastle, Andrew Henderson is someone I've always rated as a coach, and they showed good team spirit and attitude against Bradford. But they're going to Toulouse on a very short turnaround, they picked up more injuries on Monday and they have four or five young lads in their squad. It will be interesting to see their 17, and whether or not they can be competitive against Toulouse. Either way, on the evidence of Monday night they are definitely play-offs contenders especially if they start getting a few injured players back.

Sheffield produced an eycatching 36-0 win over Batley last night. It's clear that Batley have started the season very slowly, for me there's more to it than just missing Gilmore and Hooley as they capitulated tamely at home to Swinton, who had themselves lost at home to Newcastle.  I think it's too early to say whether this is just a slow start or whether they have really dropped a level this year. They still worry me a bit as they match up better with us than some other teams because they have a big pack that on its day can prove troublesome as we know only too well.

Sheffield by contrast clearly look to be better than last season. There must be a good chance they would have won at Halifax if they had had Thackeray as he is so important to them, but they have far better depth and more competition for places than in previous seasons. Whatever we might think about Tubbs he does tend to get the best out of his squad when he has a decent one at his disposal, and this might be the best Eagles squad for eight or nine years.

Fax clearly have plenty of talent and strike amongst their backs as we saw last week but they still lack grunt up front. They should be top 3 contenders again but have work to do to challenge us and Toulouse and it's telling that they have already turned to DR.

Hard to see many other teams challenging for top 2 or even top 4. It looked like the same old Bradford on Monday night, they have definitely signed some better players but they still have too many who look flakey under pressure and I'm still not convinced by the coach. Barrow don't look as strong as last year at this stage and Widnes are probably a bit better than last year but  were only drawing with Keighley at home with less than 10 minutes to go.

Still early days after 2 rounds though.

[J Phil Loxton]

20 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Thought it was worth having a separate thread for discussing other teams in our division and who might be our biggest rivals, assuming we maintain our good start.

Toulouse looked very good at Barrow, especially with their line speed in defence, and on what I've seen look by some way the biggest threat to us. They are full time, which is obviously a big advantage, they have a good and experienced coach, and they will play fewer games than us (at least 1 and possibly several more) because they won't play in the Challenge Cup or the 1895 Cup.

I've only seen the tries from their 58-0 win over Newcastle and it's hard to gauge much from that because Newcastle looked absolutely woeful defensively. I think there will be a few more teams that go over to France and see the game as a bit of a write-off.

With that in mind it will be interesting to see how York get on today. They are a far better team than Newcastle, Andrew Henderson is someone I've always rated as a coach, and they showed good team spirit and attitude against Bradford. But they're going to Toulouse on a very short turnaround, they picked up more injuries on Monday and they have four or five young lads in their squad. It will be interesting to see their 17, and whether or not they can be competitive against Toulouse. Either way, on the evidence of Monday night they are definitely play-offs contenders especially if they start getting a few injured players back.

Sheffield produced an eycatching 36-0 win over Batley last night. It's clear that Batley have started the season very slowly, for me there's more to it than just missing Gilmore and Hooley as they capitulated tamely at home to Swinton, who had themselves lost at home to Newcastle.  I think it's too early to say whether this is just a slow start or whether they have really dropped a level this year. They still worry me a bit as they match up better with us than some other teams because they have a big pack that on its day can prove troublesome as we know only too well.

Sheffield by contrast clearly look to be better than last season. There must be a good chance they would have won at Halifax if they had had Thackeray as he is so important to them, but they have far better depth and more competition for places than in previous seasons. Whatever we might think about Tubbs he does tend to get the best out of his squad when he has a decent one at his disposal, and this might be the best Eagles squad for eight or nine years.

Fax clearly have plenty of talent and strike amongst their backs as we saw last week but they still lack grunt up front. They should be top 3 contenders again but have work to do to challenge us and Toulouse and it's telling that they have already turned to DR.

Hard to see many other teams challenging for top 2 or even top 4. It looked like the same old Bradford on Monday night, they have definitely signed some better players but they still have too many who look flakey under pressure and I'm still not convinced by the coach. Barrow don't look as strong as last year at this stage and Widnes are probably a bit better than last year but  were only drawing with Keighley at home with less than 10 minutes to go.

Still early days after 2 rounds though.

I watch other teams progression on YouTube and out of all the teams I've seen so far I think Sheffield look the strongest and were unfortunate not to win at Halifax after a pass was intercepted late on in the game that would have given them the win had it gone the right way. Halifax are quick as proved with their late attempt at Fev but teams need a bit of grunt to go with type of play also. It's only week 2 and Batley fans are worried that they may not have bolstered their team in close season. York didn't have to do much at home to Bradford but I think we will see further improvement from them. Widnes are steady along just now and Bradford need to sort their half backs out as I don't think that particular partnership suits them or their fans. Whitehaven have put in a couple of strong efforts and lost. So Fev need to keep their foot on the gas. At present my top 5 would be FEV TOULOUSE SHEFFIELD WIDNES AND YORK in no particular order. But that will all surely change.

[The Blues Ox]

20 hours ago, J Phil Loxton said:

I watch other teams progression on YouTube and out of all the teams I've seen so far I think Sheffield look the strongest and were unfortunate not to win at Halifax after a pass was intercepted late on in the game that would have given them the win had it gone the right way. Halifax are quick as proved with their late attempt at Fev but teams need a bit of grunt to go with type of play also. It's only week 2 and Batley fans are worried that they may not have bolstered their team in close season. York didn't have to do much at home to Bradford but I think we will see further improvement from them. Widnes are steady along just now and Bradford need to sort their half backs out as I don't think that particular partnership suits them or their fans. Whitehaven have put in a couple of strong efforts and lost. So Fev need to keep their foot on the gas. At present my top 5 would be FEV TOULOUSE SHEFFIELD WIDNES AND YORK in no particular order. But that will all surely change.

It all reminds me a little of last season after our slow start and in my opinion we would need a disaster of a season not to finish in the top 5. Ive seen enough in our first two games to say that come summer we are going to score a lot of points and other elements start to make our "small" pack look a bit of a non issue just like last season. The Sheffield game, yes Sheffield were unlucky late on but anyone who watches the first half will tell you that Fax should have put the game to bed by half time and maybe our lack of pre season games came in to play where as I believe Sheffield had at least 1 extra game prep coming in to the season. The DR story is a non story really and anyone who looks at our squad could see we would be DR'ing with someone so the only real surprise is that its Cas and not Huddersfield but given we were down to 18/19 fit players for our first two games it's a no brainer. For me though early season does indicate that Sheffield could be this years big improvers and they do have a really solid squad on paper and they play some nice rugby. Toulouse have surprised me how strongly they have started and if they can pick some players up as the season goes along there looks like there could be a chance they ruin Fev's promotion season. The rest of the teams I have really not seen enough of to comment but what bits I have seen nobody has really stood out and I think there will be quite a gap between the top 3/4 teams and the rest come the end of the season.

[The Phantom Horseman]

52 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Ive seen enough in our first two games to say that come summer we are going to score a lot of points and other elements start to make our "small" pack look a bit of a non issue just like last season.

I thought with the lack of rainfall we'd been mercifully free of the "we'll be better when the pitches firm up" posts but perhaps not...

Seriously, I don't disagree that Fax will score a hatful of points against quite a few teams but for me it's not just about the size of the packs but who wins the respective collisions. Whe you lose the first half yardage 809 to 438 it's not just about "not being brave enough" as Grix suggested. If you're conceding over 800 yards when playing downhill at Fev that's a fairly big problem to solve.

[The Blues Ox]

56 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

I thought with the lack of rainfall we'd been mercifully free of the "we'll be better when the pitches firm up" posts but perhaps not...

Seriously, I don't disagree that Fax will score a hatful of points against quite a few teams but for me it's not just about the size of the packs but who wins the respective collisions. Whe you lose the first half yardage 809 to 438 it's not just about "not being brave enough" as Grix suggested. If you're conceding over 800 yards when playing downhill at Fev that's a fairly big problem to solve.

Its funny but I think we were actually one of the teams that benefited last season when the grounds firmed up or at least that is what our form through the season suggested. Maybe it will again this season or maybe it wont time will tell I guess.

I finally got round to watching the full game the other day and although we were dominated I think a few things went against us early on which obviously caused disruption and had us on the back foot early doors and the last place you want to try and chase a game this year is Fev. As I have said before it seems customary now that we travel to Fev early on in the season and it gets a game out of the way that I don't expect anyone to win so it will have very little if any bearing on our season. End of the day you get what you pay for and Fev have spent a lot more money than us so it is no real surprise the result and you should all enjoy it while it lasts.

[The Phantom Horseman]

6 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

 End of the day you get what you pay for and Fev have spent a lot more money than us so it is no real surprise the result and you should all enjoy it while it lasts.

We've spent less than we did last season and at times there didn't seem to be much between Fev and Fax in 2022. Fax have known about this fixture since November and I can't believe shipping 46 points was in the plan.

[The Blues Ox]

10 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

We've spent less than we did last season and at times there didn't seem to be much between Fev and Fax in 2022. Fax have known about this fixture since November and I can't believe shipping 46 points was in the plan.

When Fev beat Leigh early last season I doubt Fev expected to be dominated in every subsequent meeting with them but sometimes the best made plans just don't work out. It is what it is I'm just clinging on to the hope of another 2010 though. 

[Monkeymagic22]

18 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

When Fev beat Leigh early last season I doubt Fev expected to be dominated in every subsequent meeting with them but sometimes the best made plans just don't work out. It is what it is I'm just clinging on to the hope of another 2010 though. 

Leigh signed Ipape and Lam. Perhaps Fax have similar signings lined up?.

[The Phantom Horseman]

9 hours ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

Leigh signed Ipape and Lam. Perhaps Fax have similar signings lined up?.

+ Ferguson, Inu, O'Donnell, Nakubuwai and Charnley.

[Wolfey Rovers]

Leigh was completely different beast after the first meeting. Fax will be the same.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Wolfey Rovers

[The Blues Ox]

Everyone kind of missing my point.  

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

Everyone kind of missing my point.  

Nah, you're hoping our chance will go up in smoke in the play-offs.

I reckon the only man from Fax who's going to be on fire in 2023 is Tommy Lee Royce

[The Blues Ox]

7 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Nah, you're hoping our chance will go up in smoke in the play-offs.

I reckon the only man from Fax who's going to be on fire in 2023 is Tommy Lee Royce

And Lachlan Walmsley  But no you are still missing my point. It was simply that you can make any plans you want and watch them suddenly derail. Fax didn't plan to have 40 put on them Fev didn't plan to be bridesmaids, it happens as both our clubs know. But don't worry if Fax can't somehow fluke a final win I still think Fev deserve that spot in SL and they would be my next choices. 

[Fevrover]

17 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

And Lachlan Walmsley  But no you are still missing my point. It was simply that you can make any plans you want and watch them suddenly derail. Fax didn't plan to have 40 put on them Fev didn't plan to be bridesmaids, it happens as both our clubs know. But don't worry if Fax can't somehow fluke a final win I still think Fev deserve that spot in SL and they would be my next choices. 

Fev will deserve it only if we win the GF.

[elppaxr2i]

Should rename the thread “thread on hailfax” because thats all thats been talked about

Sadly I dont see much discussion on the other champ teams, in fact some champ teams arent even mentioned in the opening post

[The Phantom Horseman]

5 minutes ago, elppaxr2i said:

 

Sadly I dont see much discussion on the other champ teams, in fact some champ teams arent even mentioned in the opening post

The thread is about other Championship teams, and most of them were mentioned in the opening post and quite a few in the second post.

It's gone off at a bit of a tangent discussing Fax but i don't see that as an issue, they are another Championship team and one that was widely forecast to finish top 3.

[Monkeymagic22]

On the limited information we have, Fev and Toulouse appear a bit clear, followed by the pack of Fax, Bulls, Widnes and Sheffield. I’d also expect Batley to be in the mix as the season progresses. An honourable mention to Swinton, who have made a great start. Personally I can’t see anything other than the big two winning promotion, with Fev having the slight edge due to our apparently bigger squad. This season, there already just seems to be a better atmosphere and spirit at Fev, so wouldn’t expect an implosion like last season. 

[POR]

2 hours ago, elppaxr2i said:

Should rename the thread “thread on hailfax” because thats all thats been talked about

Sadly I dont see much discussion on the other champ teams, in fact some champ teams arent even mentioned in the opening post

To be fair E it appeared  that way only because our mate FAX's one and only  BO posted

[The Phantom Horseman]

Having watched a couple of games in full and some highlights from the other games from the weekend:

Toulouse still look by some way our strongest rivals this year though it's hard to really tell much from highlights. York were missing a few and played quite a lot of youngsters, but I'm going to assume that Toulouse's defensive line speed that we saw in the Barrow game has again been evident as they have nilled two opponents in a row.

I doubt they'll concede many points at Bradford on Saturday but they probably won't score a hatful on that pitch either.

Halifax v London was a fairly ordinary game and in some ways I suppose you could use it to downgrade our performance against Fax as they again looked toothless in the middle of the field and were losing a lot of collisions, especially in the first half. London were better than I'd expected in terms of their pack though they lack a bit of creativeness and quality in their backs and everything revolves around Parata, who usually seems to play loose forward for them but was playing half back on Sunday.

Fax probably deserved to win as they had a bit more quality but with less than 10 minutes to go London were denied what looked a stone cold penalty try to me and having come back from 24-6 down that would have been 24-24 and you would have fancied them to go on and win the game.

The young ref I thought was ok but he was very hot on 6 agains for both teams including on the last tackle, to be fair I think most of them were the right call strictly speaking but there must have been 15 or 16 of them in the game, I mention this only because we have him on Sunday.

Bradford v Widnes was also not the most pleasing game on the eye but that's because of the narrow pitch, they looked fairly evenly matched but it was a game with very few line breaks and both teams found it difficult to score with the players on top of each other due to the lack of space.

Bradford's ball control was much better than against York and that's probably what won them the game as Widnes lost the ball 12 or 13 times. Widnes still looked like winning when they pinned Bradford a couple of yards from their own line with under 3 minutes left. However they gave away a penalty that allowed Bradford to get downfield, kept them out for 5 tackles before a silly push at the PTB gave another penalty away, and then after keeping them out for 5 more tackles Dixon made a daft error (by no means his only one in the game) by jumping in to try and catch a high kick when all they had to do was let the Bulls man catch it and tackle him. Bradford scored from the ensuing scrum.

Swinton and Barrow looked a good game from the highlights, there was a bit of good fortune about Swinton's late match-winning try but they are certainly making more of an impact now than most of us expected after they lost at home to Newcastle.

Sheffield v Batley was an in-form team against an out-of-form team and that showed in the result. It will be interesting to see if those two teams regresss to the mean as the season goes on but for now Sheffield look in third place on merit.

Haven't seen any highlights from Keighley v Newcastle but Newcastle already look to be facing an uphill battle to avoid relegation despite that win at Swinton.

 

[The Blues Ox]

2 hours ago, POR said:

To be fair E it appeared  that way only because our mate FAX's one and only  BO posted

Sorry people, when I saw the thread my main intention was always to talk about Sheffield and I ended up talking about Fax. 

Finally started to get around to watching our game against London and just seems another game where we probably should have run away with it and for whatever reason ended up clinching it late on. The plus side of that is we have got off to a better start than last season where results went the other way obviously the negative side is that, like PH mentions, we look very average up front which isn't boding well. Doro looks a really good signing for us on first outing as to be expected.  Again as PH mentioned London I thought looked decent and certainly better than last season and they will trouble a lot of teams as they do have some size up front that we struggled with. I think our game with Widnes may be more a sign of what to expect from this season playing on a surface that Grix thinks we should be excelling on so lets see.

Edited February 22, 2023 by The Blues Ox

[Fevrover]

2 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Sorry people, when I saw the thread my main intention was always to talk about Sheffield and I ended up talking about Fax. 

We'll talk about owt on here - even Fax lol.

[POR]

2 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Sorry people, when I saw the thread my main intention was always to talk about Sheffield and I ended up talking about Fax. 

If you can't talk about your own team  BO  WHY bother opening your mouth

[The Blues Ox]

Just now, POR said:

If you can't talk about your own team  BO  WHY bother opening your mouth

Its often garbage that comes out anyway so I do wonder why I bother sometimes. 

[The Phantom Horseman]

Looking at the Toulouse team they are missing three of their normal starting pack today at Bradford including Harrison Hansen and Sita Akauola, they have a very inexperienced bench at this level and only one of them is a middle. Interesting to see if Bradford can take advantage, the postage stamp pitch is a great leveller too.

[The Phantom Horseman]

Well. Bradford 28 Toulouse 18 full time, 3 Toulouse players and 2 Bradford players sin binned I think. Toulouse clearly can't afford to be missing two or three players with their squad on that evidence.