Fri 3rd Mar: SL: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Barry Badrinath]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Aye, like Saints worry about legal tackles

Ben Evans would have something to say about that

[Tippytoe]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

Which is why I think Wellens is asking for clarity here. His comments suggest Saints have quite a few players who would like to get back to tackling like this they just need the advice from the RFL as to what is or isn’t acceptable. 

You can twist someone's arm behind their back no problem!

[bobbruce]

56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Aye, like Saints worry about legal tackles

They like to push the boundaries would just be nice to know where those boundaries are. 

[GUBRATS]

Hopefully Saints continue with something similar next week 

I say this having just watched the whole game without trawling through this thread , Saints normally play as tough as anybody , but that was just too far , yes the big Leeds lads tackle could have been pulled , one of those 50/50s , but the number of daft stuff Saints did really did cost them the game , big Louy could have gone in the bin as well , only the fact Sironen was already in there kept him out IMO

No doubt next week they'll be white as the driven snow and we'll feel the full brunt of this defeat 

[GUBRATS]

Oh and after what we saw on Thursday , it was a penalty try and an 8 point try , typical of Leeds managing to achieve both in one tackle 

Most unlike Nene to try to decapitate somebody , he was even smiling as he did it

[Chrispmartha]

16 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Oh and after what we saw on Thursday , it was a penalty try and an 8 point try , typical of Leeds managing to achieve both in one tackle 

Most unlike Nene to try to decapitate somebody , he was even smiling as he did it

How can it be a penalty try and an 8 point try?

[GUBRATS]

34 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

How can it be a penalty try and an 8 point try?

It can't , but Leeds tried their best to actually commit the fouls all in tackle to do so 

The block which was identical to the one Salford committed against Leigh round 1 

And then the attack to the head by Nene similar to the one given against Salford on Thursday

Leeds managed to combine the 2 all in one tackle

[Barry Badrinath]

15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It can't , but Leeds tried their best to actually commit the fouls all in tackle to do so 

The block which was identical to the one Salford committed against Leigh round 1 

And then the attack to the head by Nene similar to the one given against Salford on Thursday

Leeds managed to combine the 2 all in one tackle

It wasnt similar at all

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

It wasnt similar at all

It was contact to the head in the act of scoring 

 

[Chrispmartha]

36 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It can't , but Leeds tried their best to actually commit the fouls all in tackle to do so 

The block which was identical to the one Salford committed against Leigh round 1 

And then the attack to the head by Nene similar to the one given against Salford on Thursday

Leeds managed to combine the 2 all in one tackle

Nenes was not similar whatsoever.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Nenes was not similar whatsoever.

True , it was much worse 

[Chrispmartha]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

True , it was much worse 

Ok.

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It was contact to the head in the act of scoring 

 

I agree. I think it was an illegal tackle as he scored. 

It wasn't similar or as bad as Watkins' tackle, but it was clearly high. Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if the VR wasn't even looking at that and focused on the ball. 

[idrewthehaggis]

5 hours ago, Tippytoe said:

You can twist someone's arm behind their back no problem!

The thought wanted is its the players and tactics that determine the result.

But in a parallel universe, the order disarranged is-

2022 Saints v SRD semi final

Refereed by Liam and Jack. Salford get a penalty try. Reds beat Leeds in the GF

2023 Wire v SRD

Refereed by Kendal. No 8 pointer/no Ryan sin bin. Salford sneak a W.

2023 Saints v Leeds

Refereed by the Chuckle brothers. A tackle with the shoulder is a shoulder tackle. Red card. Saint win.

Thoughts

When it's a problem the first thing is to recognize it's a problem.

If or when they do, then may I suggest the following as something to ponder.

a. One worldwide set of Laws.

b. Invest in a Centre of Excellence for officialdom. Train 'em up better..

c. Transparency if them Laws change. And to explain each game's decisions.

d. Support the refs. Give them the same basis/VAR as refs get in the other code. Enhance the VR.

e. NRL refs are better. Get us a partnership.

f. Seriously why no French officials any more?

g. Captain call calling.

h. And let only the captain speak to the ref. Not the choral chums of Drinkwater, Thewlis and Dufty.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by idrewthehaggis

[GUBRATS]

10 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The thought wanted is its the players and tactics that determine the result.

But in a parallel universe, the order disarranged is-

2022 Saints v SRD semi final

Refereed by Liam and Jack. Salford get a penalty try. Reds beat Leeds in the GF

2023 Wire v SRD

Refereed by Kendal. No 8 pointer/no Ryan sin bin. Salford sneak a W.

2023 Saints v Leeds

Refereed by the Chuckle brothers. A tackle with the shoulder is a shoulder tackle. Red card. Saint win.

Thoughts

When it's a problem the first thing is to recognize it's a problem.

If or when they do, then may I suggest the following as something to ponder.

a. One worldwide set of Laws.

b. Invest in a Centre of Excellence for officialdom. Train 'em up better..

c. Transparency if them Laws change. And to explain each game's decisions.

d. Support the refs. Give them the same basis/VAR as refs get in the other code. Enhance the VR.

e. NRL refs are better. Get us a partnership.

f. Seriously why no French officials any more?

g. Captain call calling.

h. And let only the captain speak to the ref. Not the choral chums of Drinkwater, Thewlis and Dufty.

 

 

 

Aah , the old parallel universe argument 

" Smoke me a kipper skipper , I'll be back for breakfast " 

Edited March 5, 2023 by GUBRATS

[GUBRATS]

17 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Which is why I think Wellens is asking for clarity here. His comments suggest Saints have quite a few players who would like to get back to tackling like this they just need the advice from the RFL as to what is or isn’t acceptable. 

No matter what you do some decisions will be subjective , the Leeds lad got away with it because his own player prevented him from wrapping his arm around the Saints player ( in his opinion ) , does that mean if there's two players in the tackle one can shoulder charge ? , No 

Did Wellness comment on Louy's or Hurrells tackles ? , IMO if Sironen hadn't already been carded Louie would have got a yellow as well 

There will always be a grey area  , voluntary tackle anybody ? 

Edited March 5, 2023 by GUBRATS

[bobbruce]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

No matter what you do some decisions will be subjective , the Leeds lad got away with it because his own player prevented him from wrapping his arm around the Saints player ( in his opinion ) , does that mean if there's two players in the tackle one can shoulder charge ? , No 

Did Wellness comment on Louy's or Hurrells tackles ? , IMO if Sironen hadn't already been carded Louie would have got a yellow as well 

There will always be a grey area  , voluntary tackle anybody ? 

Wellens was rightly critical of Saints discipline and this decision didn’t cost Saints the game. I actually think it will do Saints a massive favour to lose a couple of games early on it might stop Sky going overboard on the favourites tag every game. I doubt it though. 
 

We probably shouldn’t go down that road. 

[Dave T]

14 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The thought wanted is its the players and tactics that determine the result.

But in a parallel universe, the order disarranged is-

2022 Saints v SRD semi final

Refereed by Liam and Jack. Salford get a penalty try. Reds beat Leeds in the GF

2023 Wire v SRD

Refereed by Kendal. No 8 pointer/no Ryan sin bin. Salford sneak a W.

2023 Saints v Leeds

Refereed by the Chuckle brothers. A tackle with the shoulder is a shoulder tackle. Red card. Saint win.

Thoughts

When it's a problem the first thing is to recognize it's a problem.

If or when they do, then may I suggest the following as something to ponder.

a. One worldwide set of Laws.

b. Invest in a Centre of Excellence for officialdom. Train 'em up better..

c. Transparency if them Laws change. And to explain each game's decisions.

d. Support the refs. Give them the same basis/VAR as refs get in the other code. Enhance the VR.

e. NRL refs are better. Get us a partnership.

f. Seriously why no French officials any more?

g. Captain call calling.

h. And let only the captain speak to the ref. Not the choral chums of Drinkwater, Thewlis and Dufty.

 

 

 

None of those things will make a blind bit of difference. 

You'd still moan about refs and some form of conspiracy. 

[Dunbar]

14 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The thought wanted is its the players and tactics that determine the result.

But in a parallel universe, the order disarranged is-

2022 Saints v SRD semi final

Refereed by Liam and Jack. Salford get a penalty try. Reds beat Leeds in the GF

2023 Wire v SRD

Refereed by Kendal. No 8 pointer/no Ryan sin bin. Salford sneak a W.

2023 Saints v Leeds

Refereed by the Chuckle brothers. A tackle with the shoulder is a shoulder tackle. Red card. Saint win.

Thoughts

When it's a problem the first thing is to recognize it's a problem.

If or when they do, then may I suggest the following as something to ponder.

a. One worldwide set of Laws.

b. Invest in a Centre of Excellence for officialdom. Train 'em up better..

c. Transparency if them Laws change. And to explain each game's decisions.

d. Support the refs. Give them the same basis/VAR as refs get in the other code. Enhance the VR.

e. NRL refs are better. Get us a partnership.

f. Seriously why no French officials any more?

g. Captain call calling.

h. And let only the captain speak to the ref. Not the choral chums of Drinkwater, Thewlis and Dufty.

 

 

 

Can you do us one now where no players make any mistakes in the games that you mention.

No dropped catches, no forward passes, no missed tackles, no defensive misreads.

I would be keen to know who would have won in this parallel universe when humans aren't humans at all.

[Josef K]

On 04/03/2023 at 14:51, Chrispmartha said:

I must admit i did get a bit of hope when i saw your bench.

good to see a saints fan acknowledging our trys as i think the quality of them is being overshadowed by the talk of shoulder charges.

Saints will be fine but they won’t have it all their own terms this year as I think A. Opposition teams have figured out how to play against them and B. A few other teams are stronger this year. The Saints Wire games should be epic!

The Leeds (so called)shoulder charge looked fine to me, but Hurrell’s looked a shocker. We looked goosed as the game went on, the players were bunched up not running onto the ball.
But the Saints fans who think we was robbed by the official’s should look instead at our dreadful tackling, woeful discipline, poor KGP’s, and a bizarre bench. 
I hope we don’t have Davies playing in the centre’s on Friday, no offence too the lad but i was amazed he got a two year deal at the club.

[M j M]

Following on from the mess of a showing last Friday from this ill-disciplined St Helens side, here are the results from the RFL Disciplinary:

Curtis Sironen - 1 match ban

Sione Mata’utia - 2 match ban

Konrad Hurrell - 2 match ban

Sam Walters - no ban

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61483/disciplinary-|-match-review-panel

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

Following on from the mess of a showing last Friday from this ill-disciplined St Helens side, here are the results from the RFL Disciplinary:

Curtis Sironen - 1 match ban

Sione Mata’utia - 2 match ban

Konrad Hurrell - 2 match ban

Sam Walters - no ban

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61483/disciplinary-|-match-review-panel

Here come more conspiracy theories. Officials wear leeds shirts(according to Redvee tv) now disciplinary committee. But seriously there could be quite a few players picking up bans if they consistently apply the late shot after the player has passed the ball. 

[LeeF]

7 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Here come more conspiracy theories. Officials wear leeds shirts(according to Redvee tv) now disciplinary committee. But seriously there could be quite a few players picking up bans if they consistently apply the late shot after the player has passed the ball. 

The late shot was consistently applied last season and was a major contributory factor in all the bans, and whinging, seen. Maybe sometime the penny will drop and the coaches & players will address this issue

[Just Browny]

24 minutes ago, M j M said:

Following on from the mess of a showing last Friday from this ill-disciplined St Helens side, here are the results from the RFL Disciplinary:

Curtis Sironen - 1 match ban

Sione Mata’utia - 2 match ban

Konrad Hurrell - 2 match ban

Sam Walters - no ban

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61483/disciplinary-|-match-review-panel

Remember we are stillin the early skirmishes before Saints lawyer up.

[hullste]

No problem with that but they have ruled Walters tackle a shoulder charge so it should have been awarded as a penalty to Saints. Also wasn't the video ref Jack Smith? the guy who awarded two 8 point tries to Warrington the night before. This isn't even inconsistency  across a group of referees which you will get as a result of individual interpretation, it is the same guy inconsistently applying the letter of the law which is what I'm most frustrated with.