IMG Grading Unveiled

[Derwent Parker]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This is exactly the griping I refer to. 

Halifax, Oldham, London, and Workington were in SL1, Hull and Hull KR weren't. Salford and Cas have been relegated, amongst others. 

The likes of Halifax and Fev haven't taken over these weaker clubs. Why not? 

Hull KR are in SL and Fev are not for a reason 

Because of the money and parachute payments

[Archie Gordon]

2 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

...

If you are a B you get B money regardless of which league you are in. Likewise with C

I like this.

[Derwent Parker]

13 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Precisely this

Fev, Keighley etc. have failed to get promoted via the current "over-spend for one season" lottery system for nearly 30 years, if anything you'd have thought they and other Championship clubs would think a new model might offer more chance. It can scarcely offer them less chance than they've had to-date.  

They have to overspend because they are not gifted the 2M you are

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Derwent Parker said:

Because of the money and parachute payments

You'll always just put it down to being one of the chosen 12. Yet a while ago, Bradford were at the top of that table - but now they see themselves as one of the hard done to 2nd tier. And Widnes, and London. 

There is no chosen few. Clubs are broadly where you would expect them to be. There are no sleeping giants being suppressed. 

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

They are NOT all there just because they are the strongest clubs.

The Big ones like are Saints, Wigan etc are.

But the lower half of SL have a Financial advantage over the Top of Champ, and have had for years.

but if:- Hypothetically - IMG use an idea which I just read on here of awarding CF amount differently depending on A,B or C Status and the Top 6 say are cat A and get for example 2M each and all Bs get 1.3M each and there are 6 Bs in champ and 6 in bottom half of SL.          [numbers just used as example]

Then if after a few seasons of P & R between Bs we will see a true reflection of the strongest because all 12 Bs will have same CF funding.  No Biased between leagues.

And you could have 2 or 3 or 4 up and down cos they wont lose their CF [no parachutes reqd] and a great incentive to up your grade.

If you are a B you get B money regardless of which league you are in. Likewise with C

Where has that idea come from?

That could not ever happen regarding CF being awarded by grade.

[Chrispmartha]

6 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

They have to overspend because they are not gifted the 2M you are

They are not gifted it they get it for being in the top flight of the sport.

[Derwent Parker]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You'll always just put it down to being one of the chosen 12. Yet a while ago, Bradford were at the top of that table - but now they see themselves as one of the hard done to 2nd tier. And Widnes, and London. 

There is no chosen few. Clubs are broadly where you would expect them to be. There are no sleeping giants being suppressed. 

Whilst 12 get 2 Million a year and 10 get 20 k a year and champ get something in between [someone please tell me what this is] then the ones on 2M per year are the chosen few????

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Whilst 12 get 2 Million a year and 10 get 20 k a year and champ get something in between [someone please tell me what this is] then the ones on 2M per year are the chosen few????

Fair enough. You're right. P&R can't work. Scrap it. 

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Some clubs were successful during Licensing when promotion was not allowed.

Other clubs had dreadful owners.

Anyway,rally round the saviours of the game.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/22/rugby-league-could-go-part-time-again-warns-wakefield-trinity-chief-executive

Rely on pesky foreigners to save old Blighty.

I know I'm critical of Carter, and I do try to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm sorry, but:

Quote

"We're pinning all our hopes on IMG being the saviour of the sport"

This is the whole damn problem right here. The fact that Carter, as a prominent leader at one of our 12 SL clubs and a board member of SLE - the entity responsible for the sport's commercial performance - can unashamedly and unironically say this out loud just typifies how the sport has found itself here. It as if people like him have just been waiting for a white knight to come in and do what people like him should have been doing all along.  

IMG is not here to be our saviour and do the work for us - they're to be a partner and help us achieve what should be achievable if people like Carter would actually do what we're led to believe their jobs actually are - to work to grow their clubs and, in their capacity with SLE, work to grow the commercial viability of the sport. If we see this as a problem for IMG and IMG alone to fix, we're setting them up to fail. 

There's a lot I'd criticise Carter for - some that people would say is harsh given the constraints Wakefield work in and his commitment to the club - but this sort of thing just typifies the whole issue. He's had opportunities in his roles with SLE and Wakefield to propose ways forward for the sport to engage new audiences, to attract commercial partners, to improve our attractiveness to media partners, and the best he can come up with seems to be "it's too hard and if IMG can't do it all for us, we're f*****".

It's pathetic. 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by whatmichaelsays

[Derwent Parker]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Where has that idea come from?

That could not ever happen regarding CF being awarded by grade.

Of course it wont happen - because it will take money from the elite and share it out - but it is an idea That would work for everyone not just the chosen few.

And btw that was at no disrespect to Leigh who have gone up due to Mr DB.

[bobbruce]

3 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

They are NOT all there just because they are the strongest clubs.

The Big ones like are Saints, Wigan etc are.

But the lower half of SL have a Financial advantage over the Top of Champ, and have had for years.

but if:- Hypothetically - IMG use an idea which I just read on here of awarding CF amount differently depending on A,B or C Status and the Top 6 say are cat A and get for example 2M each and all Bs get 1.3M each and there are 6 Bs in champ and 6 in bottom half of SL.          [numbers just used as example]

Then if after a few seasons of P & R between Bs we will see a true reflection of the strongest because all 12 Bs will have same CF funding.  No Biased between leagues.

And you could have 2 or 3 or 4 up and down cos they wont lose their CF [no parachutes reqd] and a great incentive to up your grade.

If you are a B you get B money regardless of which league you are in. Likewise with C

This is great after giving the As and Bs their money we are in debt by about £4m. We haven’t given the RFL a penny yet to run the game. The (19 is it) clubs that are left as category Cs haven’t got anything never mind any funding for the amateur game. 

[Derwent Parker]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Fair enough. You're right. P&R can't work. Scrap it. 

Fair enough. You're right. P&R can't work. Scrap it. 

P & R does work - just stop the unfair handouts

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Derwent Parker said:

P & R does work - just stop the unfair handouts

You think all 36 clubs should get an equal split? 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Derwent Parker said:

P & R does work - just stop the unfair handouts

Why is it unfair? You seem to want to make the elite league of the sport worse to benefit the lower leagues?

[Derwent Parker]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

This is great after giving the As and Bs their money we are in debt by about £4m. We haven’t given the RFL a penny yet to run the game. The (19 is it) clubs that are left as category Cs haven’t got anything never mind any funding for the amateur game. 

As I said numbers were just an example not fact and I hope IMG are here to help make money? not just take it

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Derwent Parker said:

As I said numbers were just an example not fact and I hope IMG are here to help make money? not just take it

IMG are incentive based, they make money if the sport does.

[GeordieSaint]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You think all 36 clubs should get an equal split? 

It’s all about fairness Dave…

[Derwent Parker]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You think all 36 clubs should get an equal split? 

yes or at least not as bad as it is  2m - ?? - 20k

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Derwent Parker said:

yes or at least not as bad as it is  2m - ?? - 20k

Sky sports pay that money to cover the elite league of the sport, do you think they would be happy if that Elite league was made worse to benefit a league that they don’t show?

Again you seem to want to make the elite worse, a race to the bottom.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

yes or at least not as bad as it is  2m - ?? - 20k

It's a terrible idea.

But I'm sure you'd just complain that it is still unfair because clubs get bigger crowds because they play the bigger teams, and Sky show these games, so they get more sponsors. 

There will always be excuses. 

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

This is great after giving the As and Bs their money we are in debt by about £4m. We haven’t given the RFL a penny yet to run the game. The (19 is it) clubs that are left as category Cs haven’t got anything never mind any funding for the amateur game. 

What do you know that we don't Bob?

Where has the 19 figure come from as Catagory 'C's? Presumably that would be 9 from League 1 + 10 from the Championship, perhaps you could highlight them so they don't waste any money.

[Archie Gordon]

I think it's certainly the case that, say, London Broncos might have had a better outcome if they'd been given £1m a year (simplifying) whichever division they were in rather £2m a year in SL and £0  (simplifying) in the Championship.

[bobbruce]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What do you know that we don't Bob?

Where has the 19 figure come from as Catagory 'C's? Presumably that would be 9 from League 1 + 10 from the Championship, perhaps you could highlight them so they don't waste any money.

Nothing to do with me see the post I was quoting. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Archie Gordon said:

I think it's certainly the case that, say, London Broncos might have had a better outcome if they'd been given £1m a year (simplifying) whichever division they were in rather £2m a year in SL and £0  (simplifying) in the Championship.

Would St Helens be current World Champions if they had a £1m cut in funding in previous years?

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

Would St Helens be current World Champions if they had a £1m cut in funding in previous years?

Saints wouldn't be a B club.