IMG Grading Unveiled

[Taffy Tiger]

3 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

No shock that Cas and Wakey will vote against.  Wakey because they'll be in the championship and will more than likely struggle, Cas because they know that the enabling development that funds their upgrades is years away at best.

I'd guess that the rest of SL will vote for, as will Fev, 'fax, Dulls, Sheffield and York.  I assume Catalans and TOXIII don't get a vote.

Hi DS , has there been another announcement regarding Cas situation . As I understand it funds are in place once planning permission is given.

[The Phantom Horseman]

24 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

 

Edit: This is what IMG went into print with at the time, Reimagining Rugby League, it's quite explicit but somehow people have gotten themselves muddled up that it was something different being said.

That document pre-dates the meeting IMG had with the Rugby League Council the following month. Matt Shaw is standing by his story and has tweeted "Batley's Kevin Nicholas specifically raised this too.".

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 minute ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

That document pre-dates the meeting IMG had with the Rugby League Council the following month. Matt Shaw is standing by his story and has tweeted "Batley's Kevin Nicholas specifically raised this too.".

I appreciate that but the issue is all documents pre and post that meeting say the same thing. Everything that they've gone into a print on they've been consistent on (up until the announced changes last month regarding weightings etc.).

What has happened is there's a misinterpretation that has spread through some clubs and some journos. Matt may well stand by his story but all it means is he got it wrong back then, probably because he'd spoken to a club Chairman who was himself wrong. 

[Stanley30]

14 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Hi DS , has there been another announcement regarding Cas situation . As I understand it funds are in place once planning permission is given.

We've heard that for years. You and Wakefield should both be demoted for the way you dragged out the stadium saga, whilst other clubs built new stadiums at the expensive of moving from there traditional homes. 

[Tommygilf]

25 minutes ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

Cas, close to being A?,

Stadium aside, which is moving on now, they're closer than most imo.

[Taffy Tiger]

1 minute ago, Stanley30 said:

We've heard that for years. You and Wakefield should both be demoted for the way you dragged out the stadium saga, whilst other clubs built new stadiums at the expensive of moving from there traditional homes. 

bit harsh , but get your drift . Agree that the original plan to build a stadium at J32 all those years ago was pie in the sky , however , a new stadium build (away from our current home) had already been agreed until Covid hit and the developers Axiom had to change their plans from a retail park to another option , meaning no space for a new ground , but instead funding was put in place to upgrade current stadium. We are now waiting for planning permission (hopefully June/July) to be granted and then work can start on WR . As for demoted that also seems harsh as the original franchise requirements were , as in IMG case , only partly dependent on a new stadium . IMG have already said that any team whose (new) ground is not actually in place at the time of grading , won't be given full points and will only be assessed on what is actually in place , and so Cas will be penalised for this . 

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, MZH said:

It's bad enough filling it in wrong, but how can you fail to abstain? If you want to abstain then you just don't vote. How can you possibly mess that up?

C’mon it’s rugby league we are talking about,maybe copying wasn’t allowed.

[Davo5]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Stadium aside, which is moving on now, they're closer than most imo.

Yeah they are only ###### in 2 areas,on & off the pitch.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

3 abstentions, 7 against, 32 total votes in favour 

Seems like a lot of turkeys voting for Xmas. 

[David Shepherd]

53 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Hi DS , has there been another announcement regarding Cas situation . As I understand it funds are in place once planning permission is given.

Don’t think it was ever the case that all that was needed was planning permission.

As far as I’ve ever read, Cas get the money when shovels are in the ground. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Moove said:

In fairness to Featherstone, based on earlier media reports that has changed from the original plans and previous vote. See here reported by Matthew Shaw at the RL Council meeting last October...

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/key-details-imgs-rugby-league-25256694.amp

More specifically this bit...

"But what was unclear was what happens if a Grade B club finished bottom of Super League and a Grade B club won the Championship. Crucially, that has now been confirmed and, if that were to happen, the team finishing bottom of Super League will be relegated, and the team who wins the Championship will be promoted. In essence, promotion and relegation from Super League will still exist in its current guise on the basis the club coming up is the same grade as the clubs going down."

But, if the team finishing in bottom position in SL is a high scoring Grade B and the club finishing top of the Championship is a low Grade B will they still swop positions, if the answer is yes what is the point of scoring metrics if all B's are considered equal?

[Derwent Parker]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well it could be the 2.18 votes the SL clubs recieve, but that could come back to bite them if the 2.18 votes for the 4 SL 'doubters' are counted for the 'neighs to the left', that will cancel out 8.5 Championship/L1 votes if they vote for it.

no they will only count as one then or ignored. Whole voting system corrupt - should be one vote per team.

If labour find this out they will be wanting double votes in elections

[Taffy Tiger]

9 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Don’t think it was ever the case that all that was needed was planning permission.

As far as I’ve ever read, Cas get the money when shovels are in the ground. 

This just released by Grattan at Cas. Clearly states funding in place and just waiting for PP

 

In terms of that progress on the stadium, Grattan had this update to give fans: “All we’re waiting for now is literally a date for the council to put it to planning and then the decision. Once that goes through, we’ve been told funding is there, available and good to go.

“It’s not going to be May because there are local elections, so we’re hoping June or slightly beyond that.”

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

35 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

bit harsh , but get your drift . Agree that the original plan to build a stadium at J32 all those years ago was pie in the sky , however , a new stadium build (away from our current home) had already been agreed until Covid hit and the developers Axiom had to change their plans from a retail park to another option , meaning no space for a new ground , but instead funding was put in place to upgrade current stadium. We are now waiting for planning permission (hopefully June/July) to be granted and then work can start on WR . As for demoted that also seems harsh as the original franchise requirements were , as in IMG case , only partly dependent on a new stadium . IMG have already said that any team whose (new) ground is not actually in place at the time of grading , won't be given full points and will only be assessed on what is actually in place , and so Cas will be penalised for this . 

It wasn't going anywhere before Covid came along* and I'd be very surprised that Axiom will stump up any cash before they have tennants signed up to make the project a goer - they don't even know what they are going to build yet! 

*check back how many times the Developer changed their submitted plans and put out statements that work would begin soon/the next few months/next spring/by autumn.....

[glossop saint]

37 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Seems like a lot of turkeys voting for Xmas. 

Maybe, or maybe the chairmen have a different view as to what problems effect them and growth of the game and have fully analysed the data available, questioned IMG at the various meetings amd decided that this is the best way to continue.

Or maybe they all ticked the wrong box, which given some of the word coming out might not be so far fetched!

[Derwent Parker]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But, if the team finishing in bottom position in SL is a high scoring Grade B and the club finishing top of the Championship is a low Grade B will they still swop positions, if the answer is yes what is the point of scoring metrics if all B's are considered equal?

Well in that case -whats the point in trying to win Champ league?

Therefore  a SL B can save their 1.5M goody bag and instead of new players buy a new scoreboard and pretty up the ground with pretty LEDs knowing that will save them even if they finish bottom?

Protectionism is all this is about

Save the Top 12 from relegation

Give them all the CF

Give them double votes on everything, just to make sure

 

[Taffy Tiger]

17 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It wasn't going anywhere before Covid came along* and I'd be very surprised that Axiom will stump up any cash before they have tennants signed up to make the project a goer - they don't even know what they are going to build yet! 

*check back how many times the Developer changed their submitted plans and put out statements that work would begin soon/the next few months/next spring/by autumn.....

yeah , that's fair enough LTS 

[David Shepherd]

24 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

This just released by Grattan at Cas. Clearly states funding in place and just waiting for PP

 

In terms of that progress on the stadium, Grattan had this update to give fans: “All we’re waiting for now is literally a date for the council to put it to planning and then the decision. Once that goes through, we’ve been told funding is there, available and good to go.

“It’s not going to be May because there are local elections, so we’re hoping June or slightly beyond that.”

Axiom are never going to part with cash (it’s not really clear that they even have finance in place at this stage) until they’re well into the build and have tenants signed up.

Cas must know this. Getting planning permission is only the first step. It’ll be years before Cas see any money. Wakefield’s experience is a cautionary tale….

 

Edit. LTS beat me to it

Edited April 19, 2023 by David Shepherd

[DI Keith Fowler]

24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But, if the team finishing in bottom position in SL is a high scoring Grade B and the club finishing top of the Championship is a low Grade B will they still swop positions, if the answer is yes what is the point of scoring metrics if all B's are considered equal?

All Bs are not considered equal and in that instance they won't swap. The article isn't right and has caused endless confusion.

You can imagine it as everyone is kicked out of SL and has to re-apply based on their gradings. All the A's go in first. Then the highest ranked B's until we get to 12 teams. The idea of there being incumbent clubs isn't right it's just whoever has the highest score irregardless of where they finished in the league the year before.

[Taffy Tiger]

6 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Axiom are never going to part with cash (it’s not really clear that they even have finance in place at this stage) until they’re well into the build and have tenants signed up.

Cas must know this. Getting planning permission is only the first step. It’ll be years before Cas see any money. Wakefield’s experience is a cautionary tale….

 

Edit. LTS beat me to it

Fair comment DS , we'll have to wait and see how long it takes I guess

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

All Bs are not considered equal and in that instance they won't swap. The article isn't right and has caused endless confusion.

You can imagine it as everyone is kicked out of SL and has to re-apply based on their gradings. All the A's go in first. Then the highest ranked B's until we get to 12 teams. The idea of there being incumbent clubs isn't right it's just whoever has the highest score irregardless of where they finished in the league the year before.

That is what I thought the answer would be, that is why there are such fine metrics to accrue points.

But considering the answers on these pages the endless confusion is still very much evident, people are stating that 'B's irrespective of where they sit within the B grading will change League positions between SL and Championship.

[OnStrike]

1 hour ago, Stanley30 said:

We've heard that for years. You and Wakefield should both be demoted for the way you dragged out the stadium saga, whilst other clubs built new stadiums at the expensive of moving from there traditional homes. 

I honestly can't get my head around the hatred on some of these threads for Cas based on people not liking their ground. It's old and could do with a new stand, I get it, but they own the ground don't they? A full Jungle looks great on TV with loud passionate rugby league fans. Isn't that what we want? Beats a massive football ground that's three quarters empty and you can hear a pin drop

[Monkeymagic22]

Perhaps consideration should be given to expanding the league to at least 14, and hence getting rid of the loop games. Or is this just a case of the 12 not wanting to dilute their share of TV funding?.

[Jughead]

3 minutes ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

Perhaps consideration should be given to expanding the league to at least 14, and hence getting rid of the loop games. Or is this just a case of the 12 not wanting to dilute their share of TV funding?.

They want to scale up to 14 in future once enough teams reach a desired level, which is entirely fair, IMO. IMG also suggested losing loop games. 

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Well no, the whole point of this exercise is to grow a number of the B clubs, who are the majority of the league, into A clubs. The best way to do that wouldn't be to arbitrarily relegate a Hull KR, Huddersfield or Cas for example who are close to that A grade for a club barely scraping a B.

Sure, but it's still a choice to use the system in that way. You could also choose to incentivise those clubs to improve by saying 'If you don't want to worry about being relegated, achieve Cat A'. Or we could have no on-the-field criteria in the gradings at all. There's lots of ways we could have sliced it that balanced different goals, this is the one we chose.

(Also, we wouldn't be arbitrarily relegating the aforementioned clubs in that scenario, we'd be relegating them for finishing bottom!)