IMG Grading Unveiled

[The Blues Ox]

8 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You’re talking better rather than bigger then, in which case fair enough.  To me bigger is about history, trophies won, attendances, media coverage, ability to draw fans at away games etc, rather than current playing ability. 

Lets put Swinton in there then?

 

Where do we draw the line? Recent history suggests that Bradford are a basket case club that should not be anywhere near SL.

Edited March 10, 2023 by The Blues Ox

[MattSantos]

4 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

 

IMG were specific that on field P&R would remain between Championship and League 1.

It does remain.

However, if you win the champ and score less than the incumbent clubs in Super League, then you're not going up.

Interestingly, you could perhaps replace a B graded club with fewer points who could finish 9th for example. 

[MattSantos]

7 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I won't get that image out of my mind now 

Made me laugh, too. Would a pet leopard then be wearing Leigh leopard apparel? Is it allowed on the couch? Do they smell and malt like Dogs? 

So many leopard questions. 

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Lets put Swinton in there then?

 

Where do we draw the line? Recent history suggests that Bradford are a basket case club that should not be anywhere near SL.

I agree they’re a basket case, but they’ve still won super league 4 times, won the pre-SL title a number of times, won many challenge cups and been world champions three times this century. Not to mention they still get a lot of column inches, probably more than any other non-SL club. When Swinton are averaging 4k and have done all that I’ll say they’re as big as Bradford  

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

37 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As did a lawyer in a Far East town not to long ago.

That’s right 

It would have been much better if “promotion” was done under a more balanced model back then too 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Hull Kingston Bronco
Typo

[RP London]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

So it will be transparent but no one can see the other document and the owner of Batley has already said he feels he has been misled? Ok then

I read the 19 pages thanks. It doesn’t change that the criteria of performance fan base and commercial rev non central funding is heavily weighted by what division you are in when we start counting 

I can see how he thinks he was misled and I have shown I feel the same a little but we weren't we just made assumptions. 

It will hopefull be transparent when all the documentation is sent out.. its not hard to understand how this works with an overview followed by more details.. its almost like they're a professional organisation who do this all the time.  

[The Blues Ox]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I agree they’re a basket case, but they’ve still won super league 4 times, won the pre-SL title a number of times, won many challenge cups and been world champions three times this century. Not to mention they still get a lot of column inches, probably more than any other non-SL club. When Swinton are averaging 4k and have done all that I’ll say they’re as big as Bradford  

 

Then why are we debating putting a basket case in to SL? The idea is to get the best 12 clubs in to an elite division not to put teams in who had 2 minutes of fame that was built on quicksand.

[Chrispmartha]

I am a bit confused by SB’s stance on this TBH.

To me there is more incentive for clubs to hit the targets rather than just straight P&R.

For instance he seems to be saying that being in SL means you are automatically at an advantage.

But with things like Fandom and Income gradings, where does it say that when grading teams it doesn’t take into account what league they are playing in.

E.G lets say York average 4k per season in the championship and Wakefield 5K in SL, where does it explicitly state that Wakefield would score higher?

To me this is IMG creating a decent blueprint for clubs to build on, I think some just want a race to the bottom rather than a race yo the top.

[Eddie]

Just now, The Blues Ox said:

Then why are we debating putting a basket case in to SL? The idea is to get the best 12 clubs in to an elite division not to put teams in who had 2 minutes of fame that was built on quicksand.

I’m not debating that. Someone said Bradford aren’t the biggest club outside SL and I asked who he thought were, as I think Bradford are. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

51 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

All these #### snide remarks against Part Timers is a farce.

They wouldn't be part time if they all got 2 Million a year hand out.

How many SL teams would be Full time if Sky pulled the plug??

I’m not making snide remarks, there’s nothing wrong with part-time players. What’s wrong is pretending full time squads getting promoted against part-time players is somehow a “fair” system that should be defended as such against other ideas.

It quite clearly isn’t. That’s the system now. Unless you expect Championship clubs to be given an equal share of TV money, then it will always be that way with raw promotion and relegation. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just on Bradford, I think the grading helps them but not in the short term, What it does do is say you’re going to have to sort some stuff out before you’re automatically in SL with a grade B.

And thats why the grading system will work because if it’s just about on field performance then theres no incentive to actually improve the other areas of a club

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

38 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

It could happen to HKR or any other club if x number of teams do it better than HKR or any other club. That's a good thing, because it means that the value of the entire competition has increased.

I agree with that. Until Hull KR are an A-grade club, which I’m sure they’re not, then they’re at risk of other B-grade clubs pursuing an even more comprehensive strategy on and off the pitch. As they should be. 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I agree with that. Until Hull KR are an A-grade club, which I’m sure they’re not, then they’re at risk of other B-grade clubs pursuing an even more comprehensive strategy on and off the pitch. As they should be. 

Exactly it raises standards not just in the field, that’s the whole point.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

York are never going to average 4K in champ. Leigh who are now rolling and last proper time in SL got 6k average got half of that in Champ. 

The crowds grow by having the opportunity to get to SL play the bigger teams then market that. Not by York playing Batley and Swinton.

You’re kind of missing the point.

lower it to 3k and my point still stands.

Theres absolutely no reason York cant increase the fan base in the championship it just takes some hard work, effort and marketing, and yes of course money.

As it stands theres no reason for York to do anything than on field results.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

People sponsors and tv will have pulled out of any championship club long before they have the chance to grow.

grade with p and r works because it says to York or Bradford or Wakefield from next season “Get to SL, prove you can be an asset to the sport and you can get locked in”

Likewise to b in SL like KR “If you do all the right things off the field and make the most of being here, we can lock you in” 

points off the field just says “You can’t get more than those in the closed shop so don’t bother”.

Also how do Champ clubs grow fan base when their league is now meaningless?

Because the league isn’t meaningless.

 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

The second they play in a comp where the on field doesn’t matter , no they cant

Who has said it doesn’t matter?

A winning team is easier to market and will get better crowds which will help the clubs grade.

I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle to be honest.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

You can’t get promoted on the field, it’s meaningless . 

Only if you look at it with a narrow viewpoint.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

You can’t get promoted on the field, it’s meaningless . And when fans , sponsors and viaplay say so from next year, you will have killed the clubs that can push the sport forward (Toulouse,York,and yes even a Bradford) to protect the least commercially appealing teams in SL. 

Where has it been stated that the clubs you mentioned wont get higher scores than some SL clubs?

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

I think you are woefully naive about why people watch sponsor and put on tv second tier sport tbh. It’s to get to the top

And they still can get to ‘the top’ under this system.

You’re being naive if you think the current system is working TBH.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

Zero.

Which is the same number as FT Premiership soccer teams, if Sky pulled that plug.

Leigh was full time in the Championship! 

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

People sponsors and tv will have pulled out of any championship club long before they have the chance to grow.

grade with p and r works because it says to York or Bradford or Wakefield from next season “Get to SL, prove you can be an asset to the sport and you can get locked in”

Likewise to b in SL like KR “If you do all the right things off the field and make the most of being here, we can lock you in” 

points off the field just says “You can’t get more than those in the closed shop so don’t bother”.

Also how do Champ clubs grow fan base when their league is now meaningless?

Sponsors of championship clubs aren’t doing it because they think the club might get to super league. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Leigh was full time in the Championship! 

Amazing. And with no central distribution or parachute payment.

[Dunbar]

Blimey, one busy morning at work and this is 19 pages in already. 

Without going all the way through the thread, for a bandwagon jumper such as myself, am I happy or sad?

[The Blues Ox]

Im not going to lie but as a fan of a championship team the second promotion and relegation is taken away I lose a little bit of interest and probably decide to watch less games because I judge overall success in sport as winning on the field. I won't be the only person who feels like this and its hard to market a competition that people are going to pay to watch where success is judged more off the field. I know my team has very little chance of gaining promotion as it stands at the moment but the hope is there that I may one day get to celebrate our success winning a grand final and gaining promotion. I'm really not even sure I would celebrate getting promoted via a points system which again circling back makes me less inclined to put my money in to a club through sponsorship or at the turnstyles.

[DOGFATHER]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Blimey, one busy morning at work and this is 19 pages in already. 

Without going all the way through the thread, for a bandwagon jumper such as myself, am I happy or sad?

I think it depends on who you support  If you support one of the teams likely to benefit from going back to how things were during the framing the future days, you will be happy, it is a visionary revolution that the game has so desperately needed for years. If you support a team not likely to benefit from going back to a system that is likely to be as transparent as mud, you will think it is just the same ideas that were tried and failed and we're making the same mistakes all over again.

Edited March 10, 2023 by DOGFATHER