Are Fev in trouble?

[GUBRATS]

20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a difficult line for the police to tread imo. Too few officers and it kicks off and then they're unprepared and it looks like they're incompetent. Too many and it looks like they are taking the mick. 

To take that Millwall example, chances are the 60 fans there will be up for a scrap, several others will have already been arrested en route, and you're going to need to outnumber a hostile crowd pretty significantly to make sure they don't try anything. That is before you get to the home fans. As ever it is a balance that needs to be struck between all stakeholders that recognises what needs to be put in place.

How many competitive games have you been to against Fev in the last 20 yrs ?

[Fevrover]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

I mean come on, they were stood outside Fev's ground wearing Fev merchandise, lets be realistic.

The ones on the footage were all wearing black as far as i can see,did you actually see other fans wearing Rovers merchandise causing bother? If you did i apologise for getting my wires crossed.

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

 On Fev facebook page it says all 4 have now been identified.So lets see what action is taken against them.It must be harsh enough to make others think twice.

It will be difficult , throwing of eggs  

Is it an arrestable offence ?

Edited March 13, 2023 by GUBRATS

[Fevrover]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Correct 

The Stewards responsibilities end at the car park gate , on PO rd it would simply be criminal activity , as I put all it needs is a squad car and two yellow vests for 30 minutes at the whistle , we're not talking SWAT teams toting automatic rifles and water cannons here 

Calm down , sort out a couple of dozen tickets for the season to the local plod and everything will be fine 

Not certain but apparently the CAS fans were ' arguing ' with fists in the stand at the Giants

Well they wouldn't have had many Giants fans to 'fight' with would they lol. Not that they should be 'fighting '.

[Fevrover]

41 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Whilst you are right on the stewards, 1 patrol car means just 1 potential arrest. By the looks of the videos, its not just one person and whilst a police presence may deter many, it may also rile a few more - which isn't unheard of in former pit towns.

That 1 patrol car crew would get involved, but to actually deal with any offenders as seen on the videos you'd be talking at least 2 more vehicles turning up. More offenders, more vehicles.

Seems a lot for Championship RL imo. You'd hope Fev could sort this internally using their own community.

Don't you think they are trying to sort it out ? 

[bigbaldnmad]

13 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

The ones on the footage were all wearing black as far as i can see,did you actually see other fans wearing Rovers merchandise causing bother? If you did i apologise for getting my wires crossed.

There was a link to twitter on page one that showed around a dozen kids, at least 2 of them female. This was taken on someone's phone and obviously passed around. There was 1 person on there with the latest Rovers sweatshirt/Hoodie. Looks like that twitter post has been removed.

The ones apart from those 4 were running off before any objects were thrown, or that is how I interpreted it.

They won't have been at the game as they would have had to pay to get in.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by bigbaldnmad

[whatmichaelsays]

48 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a difficult line for the police to tread imo. Too few officers and it kicks off and then they're unprepared and it looks like they're incompetent. Too many and it looks like they are taking the mick. 

To take that Millwall example, chances are the 60 fans there will be up for a scrap, several others will have already been arrested en route, and you're going to need to outnumber a hostile crowd pretty significantly to make sure they don't try anything. That is before you get to the home fans. As ever it is a balance that needs to be struck between all stakeholders that recognises what needs to be put in place.

I'm trying to recall from memory here but in that instance - and what Leeds United found particularly worth fighting - was that the fixture was already moved to a midweek game to discourage the away following, and the game was designated a "bubble fixture" where the Millwall supporters could only travel on official club coaches, collecting their tickets from Wooley Edge services. For the police to then argue that they needed more than three officers per Millwall fan was, IMO, fairly seen to be taking the p**s.

Whether or not that is a proportionate response from the police is a matter of opinion - the reputations of both Millwall and Leeds United fans often goes before them but I seem to recall the club also pointing out that, in the reverse fixture, The Metropolitan Police didn't think that such measures were necessary when several thousand Leeds supporters traveled into Kings Cross and on towards The Den. 

32 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

So it's only fair if Leeds United did have to pay financial penalities as they basically caused it to happen. I mean, I know they didn't sanction it or whatever but they were the reason for the loss of footfall due to scared members of the public giving the city a swerve. 

The issue here is proving what is the real cause. We don't for example, have the police invoicing bars and nightclubs for mopping up drunks that fall through their doors. If a football fan decides to stay in the city for the weekend, causes problems in a nightclub at 3am and ends up arrested, is he the problem of the football club, the nightclub, or is it just a problem of society like almost all other police matters are? 

Large gatherings of people can occur for several reasons and be "stimulated" by several industries (sport, music, retail, political organisations, trade unions, etc) - this is a fact of society and something that modern policing should be designed to manage. What matters is that the response to these is proportionate. I've had the misfortune of being at the Trafford Centre on occasions where it's so busy that police are called to manage traffic on the surrounding roads, but we don't see Plod attempting to invoice the retail industry. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by whatmichaelsays

[daz39]

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes it has , no changing ends anymore , as an away fan you now get your own dedicated stand with seats and a roof ( unlike Wheldon Rd ) and a muddy car park as well

Yes i am aware, i have been back since, i was referring to the fans demeanour not the ground.

[daz39]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Correct 

The Stewards responsibilities end at the car park gate , on PO rd it would simply be criminal activity , as I put all it needs is a squad car and two yellow vests for 30 minutes at the whistle , we're not talking SWAT teams toting automatic rifles and water cannons here 

Calm down , sort out a couple of dozen tickets for the season to the local plod and everything will be fine 

Not certain but apparently the CAS fans were ' arguing ' with fists in the stand at the Giants

Something happened at the front of the stand at the end of the game but i didn't see what, it wasn't a major incident, most Cas fans had long gone before the end anyway.

[GUBRATS]

22 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Something happened at the front of the stand at the end of the game but i didn't see what, it wasn't a major incident, most Cas fans had long gone before the end anyway.

I just assumed it was the usual falling out which then escalated to fans fighting with each other , seen it loads of times 

[Tommygilf]

57 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How many competitive games have you been to against Fev in the last 20 yrs ?

I don't see the relevance, but probably a good 15.

Whilst I see why you're 1 patrol car idea sounds simple enough, if its got to the stage where that is needed, its not that simple.

[Tommygilf]

45 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Don't you think they are trying to sort it out ? 

Of course, but it currently ain't working

[daz39]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

I just assumed it was the usual falling out which then escalated to fans fighting with each other , seen it loads of times 

No idea i was too busy celebrating but someone said it had something to do with a Cas player going to see Huddersfield friends and some Cas fan weren't too pleased over it or something to do with it, could have been anger boiling over at their own players, i dunno really.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't see the relevance, but probably a good 15.

Whilst I see why you're 1 patrol car idea sounds simple enough, if its got to the stage where that is needed, its not that simple.

Sorry Tommy I'd forgot you know everything about everything , I'll leave it there to your much superior knowledge and experience

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Of course, but it currently ain't working

It didn't work at Headingley back in 2014 , was that Fevs fault ? , Leigh's fault ? , Leeds Rhino's fault ? , Or Leeds police fault ? 

[Tommygilf]

54 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It will be difficult , throwing of eggs  

Is it an arrestable offence ?

Probably just anti-social behaviour, which isn't. Some zealous coppers might find a more substantive public order offence.

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Sorry Tommy I'd forgot you know everything about everything , I'll leave it there to your much superior knowledge and experience

You have no idea.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

It didn't work at Headingley back in 2014 , was that Fevs fault ? , Leigh's fault ? , Leeds Rhino's fault ? , Or Leeds police fault ? 

Probably a mixture of most of them.

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes it has , no changing ends anymore , as an away fan you now get your own dedicated stand with seats and a roof ( unlike Wheldon Rd ) and a muddy car park as well

Headingley? Theres always one exception to the rule.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

It will be difficult , throwing of eggs  

Is it an arrestable offence ?

It was in York a couple of months back when King Charles and the Queen Consort got egged, should be no different for the Fax fans

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

It will be difficult , throwing of eggs  

Is it an arrestable offence ?

I did it once as a 12 year old, thought it would be funny to chuck them at the local community centre. A few slaps from the local bobby (remember them?) after being dragged by the ear round the back of the village hall soon put me right on that score. 

I'd be amazed if it was an arrestable offence, but I'd hope that having a couple of visible coppers on PO Road for 1/2 an hour after the game would be enough to deter these morons.

I don't buy that they weren't in the ground for the game. Can't be 100% certain but I'm pretty sure at least one of them was roaming around the ground (I've no idea who they are though).

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by David Shepherd

[The Blues Ox]

 

A post from the Fev fans facebook page. To put in to context, a number of Fax fans stay away from Fev because a Fev supporter put one of our fans in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, now Fev fans threaten to boycot the return fixture because the Fax fans that did turn up to watch yesterdays game had the audacity to complain about the coach getting egged. I was going to say i were surprised how many people liked and agreed with the post but in all honesty I'm not surprised in the slightest.

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The issue here is proving what is the real cause. We don't for example, have the police invoicing bars and nightclubs for mopping up drunks that fall through their doors. If a football fan decides to stay in the city for the weekend, causes problems in a nightclub at 3am and ends up arrested, is he the problem of the football club, the nightclub, or is it just a problem of society like almost all other police matters are? 

Large gatherings of people can occur for several reasons and be "stimulated" by several industries (sport, music, retail, political organisations, trade unions, etc) - this is a fact of society and something that modern policing should be designed to manage. What matters is that the response to these is proportionate. I've had the misfortune of being at the Trafford Centre on occasions where it's so busy that police are called to manage traffic on the surrounding roads, but we don't see Plod attempting to invoice the retail industry. 

I suppose that is fair enough comment. But at the same time, there are many large gatherings (most music festivals for example) that don't end in a mass punch up. 

Also, if a pub or club with a bad record for violence and constantly having the police out there, would probably soon find itself without a licence.

[Michael Bates]

15 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

 

A post from the Fev fans facebook page. To put in to context, a number of Fax fans stay away from Fev because a Fev supporter put one of our fans in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, now Fev fans threaten to boycot the return fixture because the Fax fans that did turn up to watch yesterdays game had the audacity to complain about the coach getting egged. I was going to say i were surprised how many people liked and agreed with the post but in all honesty I'm not surprised in the slightest.

I'd probably have a lot more comments to make if my username wasn't my actual name but instead I'll go with "how unbelievably petty and tone deaf to the issues our fan base is causing"

[whatmichaelsays]

48 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Also, if a pub or club with a bad record for violence and constantly having the police out there, would probably soon find itself without a licence.

They would, but that's where the "something that modern policing should be designed to manage" part comes in. A part of that "modern policing" is the power for the police to oppose or recommend restrictions on licence applications.