Keighley Cougar owners

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

What are your thoughts on them writing to all the other League 1 clubs to kick out the expansion sides? 

What are your thoughts on them complaining about £5k expenses to travel to Cornwall when they have ‘aspirations to play in SL’?

Interesting, isn't it, that actively looking to remove clubs is seen, by their fluffers, as being perfectly fine.

But, god forbid, we put minimum standards on tiers within the professional game.

[Dovster]

11 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

What are your thoughts on them writing to all the other League 1 clubs to kick out the expansion sides? 

What are your thoughts on them complaining about £5k expenses to travel to Cornwall when they have ‘aspirations to play in SL’?

My personal thoughts are that League 1 should be regionalised due to the costs for travelling. This money could be better spent on community involvenent to improve participation and attendances. League 1 south and north feeding into the Championship

My understanding was that central funding was reduced and Cornwall included. My question is does the RFL wish to support expansion or leave it to the clubs?

[RigbyLuger]

1 hour ago, Dovster said:

My personal thoughts are that League 1 should be regionalised due to the costs for travelling. This money could be better spent on community involvenent to improve participation and attendances. League 1 south and north feeding into the Championship

Would that be guaranteed to be used for that, and not spent on past-it players or never-made-it imports?

[Dovster]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Maybe, just maybe, this is just as much a sign Keighley can only afford to be in a regional league not a national one....

Maybe, Just maybe the SL clubs should have paid for their trips to Toulouse.

[RP London]

18 minutes ago, Dovster said:

Maybe, Just maybe the SL clubs should have paid for their trips to Toulouse.

As has been said by literally everyone one on this forum 

[theswanmcr]

2 hours ago, Dovster said:

My personal thoughts are that League 1 should be regionalised due to the costs for travelling. This money could be better spent on community involvenent to improve participation and attendances. League 1 south and north feeding into the Championship

Nothing wrong with that as a suggestion - and if that was something that Keighley were proposing then fair enough.

As others have said, the anti-Cougar feeling for me is down to the very sh**ty way of writing to clubs asking them to support kicking out clubs (just because they are not in the same area as them) that is galling.

Throwing others under the bus to save yourself is never a good look andn should be called out.

Edited April 5, 2023 by theswanmcr

[Adelaide Tiger]

10 hours ago, Dovster said:

My personal thoughts are that League 1 should be regionalised due to the costs for travelling. This money could be better spent on community involvenent to improve participation and attendances. League 1 south and north feeding into the Championship

My understanding was that central funding was reduced and Cornwall included. My question is does the RFL wish to support expansion or leave it to the clubs?

The Keighley owners want rid of non-heartland teams because of travel costs and travel time.  But there is a problem with this when you look at the Midland Hurricanes.

Note: I requested the quickest travel route on google for the following purpose.  So apologies if Google is not totally accurate.

Last season Keighley travelled to Portway Stadium the home of Midlands Hurricanes.  According to Google the travel time is 2 hours 53 minutes.  The journey to Eirias Satdium, Colwyn Bay to play North Wales Crusaders is listed on Google as being 2 hours 38 minutes.

If Keighley had remained in League 1 and travelled to Derwent Park, Workington this season the journey would be 2 hours 29 minutes.

However, this season the Hurricanes play at Alexander Stadium which is 10 minutes closer to Keighley.

So is the additional travel time of 5 and 14 minutes further than Colwyn Bay or Workington adequate justification to want to remove a so called ‘non-heartland’ team as the Hurricanes?  Or should NWC and Workington be kicked out as well?

Costs - The Keighley owners stated it cost circa £5k for Keighley to travel to Cornwall.  How far would £5k go to encourage greater participation and community involvement in Keighley?

You commented that central funding was reduced to accommodate the share that Cornwall received.  Do you know how much Cornwall received?

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Adelaide Tiger

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, Dovster said:

Maybe, Just maybe the SL clubs should have paid for their trips to Toulouse.

I don't think you'll find a person who agrees with that more than me.

[Anita Bath]

7 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Would that be guaranteed to be used for that, and not spent on past-it players or never-made-it imports?

do you mean like wakefield?

[Adelaide Tiger]

8 hours ago, Dovster said:

Maybe, Just maybe the SL clubs should have paid for their trips to Toulouse.

Totally agree with you.  

[Angelic Cynic]

10 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

What are your thoughts on them writing to all the other League 1 clubs to kick out the expansion sides? 

What are your thoughts on them complaining about £5k expenses to travel to Cornwall when they have ‘aspirations to play in SL’?

The letter has not been produced.

It was pointed out that it cost 5k for travel and overnight accommodation, which they paid,and alternative suggestions were made with regard to Cornwall. 

It was the Super League clubs that did NOT wish to pay for travel,including St Helens ,to play Toronto,resulting in Toronto being 'kicked out',yet League 1 clubs and Championship clubs travelled and apparently willingly paid excessive costs not covered by Toronto.

Making valid points is completely different from point blank refusal.

[OriginalMrC]

26 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

The letter has not been produced.

It was pointed out that it cost 5k for travel and overnight accommodation, which they paid,and alternative suggestions were made with regard to Cornwall. 

It was the Super League clubs that did NOT wish to pay for travel,including St Helens ,to play Toronto,resulting in Toronto being 'kicked out',yet League 1 clubs and Championship clubs travelled and apparently willingly paid excessive costs not covered by Toronto.

Making valid points is completely different from point blank refusal.

I'd suggest taking your blinkers off. Keighley have been very vocal when it comes to opposing expansion. Recent statements back that up. 

I can tell you now Keighley did write to other clubs. You can choose to believe it or not. 

[Dovster]

9 hours ago, RP London said:

As has been said by literally everyone one on this forum 

My point is you are criticising the Keighley for complaining  (and not being able to afford) that central funding should cover travel and the SL clubs did exactly the same.

Glad we agree there is no difference.

[glossop saint]

Just now, Dovster said:

My point is you are criticising the Keighley for complaining  (and not being able to afford) that central funding should cover travel and the SL clubs did exactly the same.

Glad we agree there is no difference.

I was accused of hypocrisy on a different thread because Saints played in the WCC. Just as I think you are implying here and AC is a couple of posts above. RP and Geordie have at no point said that said that SL clubs are right for making demands about travel costs etc. I wish people wouldn't conflate actions of clubs and their fans. I would be surprised if both those fans fully supported the SL clubs with their stance on Toronto and Toulouse.

[Dovster]

8 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

 

Costs - The Keighley owners stated it cost circa £5k for Keighley to travel to Cornwall.  How far would £5k go to encourage greater participation and community involvement in Keighley?

You commented that central funding was reduced to accommodate the share that Cornwall received.  Do you know how much Cornwall received?

 

 

My point was that the expansion teams would be better spending their money on participation etc rather than travel expense.

My point regarding central funding was not that it had been reduced due to Cornwall but that it had been reduced at a time when the added expense of a trip to Cornwall was introduced.

[JohnM]

3 minutes ago, Dovster said:

My point was that the expansion teams would be better spending their money on participation etc rather than travel expense.

My point regarding central funding was not that it had been reduced due to Cornwall but that it had been reduced at a time when the added expense of a trip to Cornwall was introduced.

As an acknowledged specialist in this area, maybe you can help inform our opinions on this controversial issue.

1. How much was Keighley getting per season from "central funding" in previous years?

2. How much will Keighley get in "central funding" this season?

3.How much will Keighley get in "central funding" next season.

Hope you can hellp.

[Dovster]

9 minutes ago, JohnM said:

As an acknowledged specialist in this area, maybe you can help inform our opinions on this controversial issue.

1. How much was Keighley getting per season from "central funding" in previous years?

2. How much will Keighley get in "central funding" this season?

3.How much will Keighley get in "central funding" next season.

Hope you can hellp.

Haha. I love sarcasm (It makes the world go round)

I imagine even if I was "an Acknowledged specialist" in this area as you claim, that I wouldn't be able to help influence you.

Sorry to have let you down and my in depth knowledge has been found wanting. I hope that this hasn't undermined my opinions too much.

 

 

[GeordieSaint]

21 minutes ago, Dovster said:

My point was that the expansion teams would be better spending their money on participation etc rather than travel expense.

Maybe the owners of Cornwall, Midlands, London, Newcastle et al are doing both…?! Can the same be said of some (semi) professional clubs in the north? In fact, maybe some northern teams would be better spending their money on participation in their local community rather than ‘trying’ to be a (semi) professional RL club. 

 

[JohnM]

4 minutes ago, Dovster said:

Haha. I love sarcasm (It makes the world go round)

I imagine even if I was "an Acknowledged specialist" in this area as you claim, that I wouldn't be able to help influence you.

Sorry to have let you down and my in depth knowledge has been found wanting. I hope that this hasn't undermined my opinions too much.

I merely seek justification for your views to better understand them.

[Dovster]

2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Maybe the owners of Cornwall, Midlands, London, Newcastle et al are doing both…?! Can the same be said of some (semi) professional clubs in the north? In fact, maybe some northern teams would be better spending their money on participation in their local community rather than ‘trying’ to be a (semi) professional RL club. 

 

Despite all the "maybe's" in your assumptions, I do agree with some of what you say. Many of the northern based lower league teams could do a lot more to generate growth. I can also can see the arguement that most clubs put too much money into their playing rotas above facilities for fans. However would warrington, Saints etc be playing in these nice stadiums if they were in League 1? I doubt it. As for the expansion clubs It would appear that engagement is not quite at the level it needs to be at to compete regularly with the northern based teams.

[Dovster]

9 minutes ago, JohnM said:

I merely seek justification for your views to better understand them.

Haha There you go again.

I guess we all have our own views and sometimes we just can't understand why some people don't share the same views.

It would be a sad less interesting place if we all thought the same way.

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

The letter has not been produced.

It was pointed out that it cost 5k for travel and overnight accommodation, which they paid,and alternative suggestions were made with regard to Cornwall. 

It was the Super League clubs that did NOT wish to pay for travel,including St Helens ,to play Toronto,resulting in Toronto being 'kicked out',yet League 1 clubs and Championship clubs travelled and apparently willingly paid excessive costs not covered by Toronto.

Making valid points is completely different from point blank refusal.

That’s them Saints, who were one of three to keep them in the sport? 

[RP London]

52 minutes ago, Dovster said:

My point is you are criticising the Keighley for complaining  (and not being able to afford) that central funding should cover travel and the SL clubs did exactly the same.

Glad we agree there is no difference.

nope.. I think Super League were wrong and I think Keighley are wrong.. there were plenty of threads on this forum about Tolouse and you will find people complaining about the same.. but this thread is about Keighley.. just because someone else has done it does not make what Keighley have wanted to do and still want to do right (2 wrongs etc).. 

Keighley's solution to "we dont have enough money" was to kick out clubs that have less money and have to travel further but arent complaining, its mindboglling... 

[Dovster]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

nope.. I think Super League were wrong and I think Keighley are wrong.. there were plenty of threads on this forum about Tolouse and you will find people complaining about the same.. but this thread is about Keighley.. just because someone else has done it does not make what Keighley have wanted to do and still want to do right (2 wrongs etc).. 

Keighley's solution to "we dont have enough money" was to kick out clubs that have less money and have to travel further but arent complaining, its mindboglling... 

Let me test my undestanding on what you are saying.

SL clubs complain - The RFL make Toulouse pay for travel.

Keighley complain - They are told to shut up and stop whinging

Double standards!!! - Just maybe

This is really Mindboglling.

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, Dovster said:

Despite all the "maybe's" in your assumptions, I do agree with some of what you say. Many of the northern based lower league teams could do a lot more to generate growth. I can also can see the arguement that most clubs put too much money into their playing rotas above facilities for fans. However would warrington, Saints etc be playing in these nice stadiums if they were in League 1? I doubt it. As for the expansion clubs It would appear that engagement is not quite at the level it needs to be at to compete regularly with the northern based teams.

of course they wouldnt if they were in league 1.. thats an odd comparison.. if Barrow had been winning Grand Finals and been in super league for 25 years would they have built a new ground?? probably! but that is not where we are, those teams have got their in a period of P&R which we see being seen as what many want to keep but then they argue that its not right that some teams are down the pyramid and those at the top get benefits.. well yes thats the way it works!

The expansion clubs for the most part have fantastic engagement for clubs that are only 10-15 years old in some cases (many less).. they are building from very little and engaging where they can, some of them more so than clubs that are 125 years old.. yes they can do more, of course they can, but while they will admit that many northern clubs bury their heads in the sand and they are lucky that people dont use the criteria of "they should have more local players" when looking at their squads!