Fri 14th Apr: SL: Warrington Wolves v Wigan Warriors KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Zilla Budgie]

Pies made Warrington look very ordinary in attack. This didn't please me, but it's a fact. 

[Davo5]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

It was some Wigan fans saying the pack wasn't fit for purpose. That was the joke.

Still think there are big question marks against some of the forwards especially against inform,full strength packs,but certainly a step up these last 2 games.

[Ullman]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I love it when someone mentions the rules Rugby League because I can point out we have laws not rules and feel all smug for a bit.

Padge is furious that you beat him to it.

[Padge]

30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I didn’t see any loss of contact though? Granted not in control but that’s never been a thing.

You are not keeping up,  they changed the in control last season and tightened it. If you have a grip on the ball and lose it mid flight, it is not enough to just put a part of your body back on it, the old interpritation, you have to completely regather the ball.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Padge said:

You are not keeping up,  they changed the in control last season and tightened it. If you have a grip on the ball and lose it mid flight, it is not enough to just put a part of your body back on it, the old interpritation, you have to completely regather the ball.

Is that true? I know the NRL has had that for years, but I dont recall ever hearing a VR say that in their deliberation here (about completely regathering). 

But in any case, most people just thought he grounded it. I think you even said it was a try. 

[EagleEyePie]

3 minutes ago, Wilderspoolmemories said:

To be honest my only query is why the second Wigan try was given despite the ball being bounced, yet the Minikin try was disallowed despite their being greater downward pressure on the ball? The game had gone anyway by the time Minikin thought he'd scored, but those decisions did confuse me.

The ball bounced up after being grounded. The ball never left O'Neill's hand at any point and the replays were pretty conclusive on that. Offside was more questionable though the kickers boot seemed level with O'Neill which would make him onside.

Minikin's try has nothing to do with downward pressure, it was deemed he lost the ball before grounding it. You can see the ball drop down from the hand about an inch from the ground but I don't think it was conclusive. Pretty sure the on-field call was a no-try so the ref must have seen the movement of the ball too but unless I'm mistaken about the on-field call that's one of those that goes with the ref's call because there's nothing to conclusively prove either way. If it went up as a try it's probably given.

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Padge said:

You are not keeping up,  they changed the in control last season and tightened it. If you have a grip on the ball and lose it mid flight, it is not enough to just put a part of your body back on it, the old interpritation, you have to completely regather the ball.

What if it touches an opponent before you regather it ?

[Tippytoe]

10 minutes ago, Faithful1865 said:

Best team won. That is all.

Probably did Warrington a favour be more hungry for revenge hungry like a Wolf  

[Padge]

Just now, Dave T said:

Is that true? I know the NRL has had that for years, but I dont recall ever hearing a VR say that in their deliberation here (about completely regathering). 

But in any case, most people just thought he grounded it. I think you even said it was a try. 

I said I thought it was a try because I didn't think that I saw seperation enough to say he needed to regather it, I have also said I don't have to take into account the onfield refs decision.

The regathering fully has been mentioned in the past, it really has, there was an emphasis on it to explain why just getting back into contact isn't allowed.

In the end it's the decision of the refs that count and that is what I run with. 

 

[Padge]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What if it touches an opponent before you regather it ?

Its a knock on.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Padge said:

I said I thought it was a try because I didn't think that I saw seperation enough to say he needed to regather it, I have also said I don't have to take into account the onfield refs decision.

The regathering fully has been mentioned in the past, it really has, there was an emphasis on it to explain why just getting back into contact isn't allowed.

In the end it's the decision of the refs that count and that is what I run with. 

 

I believe you. I watch a lot of games with plenty of noise in the house so it was a genuine question about the VR. I've heard the explanation of needing to regather many many times in the NRL but never in the UK. It's always been quite a clear difference between the comps. 

I thought the VR was really poor tonight in how rushed he presented it. I have to assume it is a directive, because to almost skirt past offside decisions and groundings without even explaining his rationale is a huge shift from previous. 

Similar to you, happy with whatever is decided, I thought Wigan were far better so I don't have a sense of injustice, but I do think there was a potential offside in the Wigan try, and I think 99% of the time Minikin's is a try. But, it is what it is and in reality, I thought Wigan were probably worthy of a 12 point win. 

[Snowys Backside]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

What if it touches an opponent before you regather it ?

If it’s Wigan, it’s Given . In seriousness Steve, it’s a knock on and Jai Field lost control of the ball before regathering.  

I did feel the first try tonight was offside an the Ref even gave it as a no try. The Video ref didn’t even slow the grounding down, but I personally thought the grounding was Ok. Either way, I would have been miffed as a receiving fan with 30 second deliberation
 

Minikins try was a try. Just because the ball slipped down an inch doesn’t mean he dropped the bloody thing. 
 

These ref calls need to stop. It’s influencing the VR to make some shockers !

[EagleEyePie]

14 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

It was some Wigan fans saying the pack wasn't fit for purpose. That was the joke.

I was one of them, but in the last few weeks Ellis has raised his performance levels to well beyond what he produced last year, Havard has raised his game and Byrne has shown consistency with his good performances that he never did before. I think most Wigan fans would have said the pack isn't good enough unless the younger players show real improvement and we get more from the experienced props. The 3 players mentioned have provided that.

Isa and Pearce-Paul have also found their form which has been massive for us. They were part of our leaky right edge early in the year but have tightened things up to the point where they are both making big contributions.

I don't think our pack is as good as Wire, Saints or Catalans if they were all fully fit and in form, but collectively the defensive effort has been huge from the team over the last few weeks and I think we're back to being greater than the sum of our parts.

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Snowys Backside said:

These ref calls need to stop. It’s influencing the VR to make some shockers !

But there were loads of compliants when the on field ref didn't give his opinion and it was handed back when the VR couldn't decide.

The laws actual state that the ref cannot disallow a try because he didn't see it grounded, he therefore can only disallow it if he is convinced visually that it wasn't grounded.

The laws are a minefield of interpritations when you introduce VR and I don't think the game as a whole as worked it out.

The basic internataional laws that we all play to need to be completely revised to take into account how the game is reffed today.

 

[Ullman]

18 minutes ago, Padge said:

You are not keeping up,  they changed the in control last season and tightened it. If you have a grip on the ball and lose it mid flight, it is not enough to just put a part of your body back on it, the old interpritation, you have to completely regather the ball.

Just the way I saw it but I thought no try was the correct call. To me there was separation and the player didn't regain control of the ball.

[Padge]

23 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What if it touches an opponent before you regather it ?

Your 

Is negated by the fact that it is how the refs see it and not a supporter.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Padge said:

But there were loads of compliants when the on field ref didn't give his opinion and it was handed back when the VR couldn't decide.

 

I'm not sure that's true really. Refs call was pretty rare, and tbh it was scrapped years ago and they went with benefit of the doubt to the attack. 

I genuinely can't think of a single benefit of the current process of the ref giving their view. I think it's the worst tweak to the VR since we launched it. 

[Just Browny]

Regardless of the wrongs and wrongs of the video ref's decisions, I think it's a very poor development that there is no explanation of the decisions given and the VRs seem to revel now in giving nothing away about their decision making. As an example Thaler is one who has always explained his thinking very clearly as VR.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

Regardless of the wrongs and wrongs of the video ref's decisions, I think it's a very poor development that there is no explanation of the decisions given and the VRs seem to revel now in giving nothing away about their decision making. As an example Thaler is one who has always explained his thinking very clearly as VR.

Agreed. This was rather the point of us mic'ing the VR up. 

Now they seem to be going for dramatic effect. 

[Ragingbull]

3 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Regardless of the wrongs and wrongs of the video ref's decisions, I think it's a very poor development that there is no explanation of the decisions given and the VRs seem to revel now in giving nothing away about their decision making. As an example Thaler is one who has always explained his thinking very clearly as VR.

Its crept in a few times over the last couple of weeks hasnt it.  I wonder if its a conciuos effort to speed up the whole VR process

Edited April 14, 2023 by Ragingbull

[Snowys Backside]

2 minutes ago, Padge said:

Your 

Is negated by the fact that it is how the refs see it and not a supporter.

Of course he’s Laughing. Didn’t you see the Jai Field try v Leigh ? He dropped it against a Leigh players leg, had a cup of tea, regathered and the VR gave it because his mate said so!

Anyway, just bin the Video Refs and bin the refs who can’t be in a decent position to see a ball being grounded. All part of the game. We shouldn’t have to go through all the collusion and bull that goes with it. 
 

We have had over 120 years without a Video Ref. If we can’t have them in all games in leagues involving P&R, bin them. 

[Padge]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure that's true really. Refs call was pretty rare, and tbh it was scrapped years ago and they went with benefit of the doubt to the attack. 

I genuinely can't think of a single benefit of the current process of the ref giving their view. I think it's the worst tweak to the VR since we launched it. 

BoD was the correct way to do it to fall in line with the laws of the game.

[Padge]

7 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Of course he’s Laughing. Didn’t you see the Jai Field try v Leigh ? He dropped it against a Leigh players leg, had a cup of tea, regathered and the VR gave it because his mate said so!

Anyway, just bin the Video Refs and bin the refs who can’t be in a decent position to see a ball being grounded. All part of the game. We shouldn’t have to go through all the collusion and bull that goes with it. 
 

We have had over 120 years without a Video Ref. If we can’t have them in all games in leagues involving P&R, bin them. 

The problem happens when the first video replay shows a try given is blatently not a try, then people start screaming we need a video ref.

Camera work these days can show up so may problems (but without high speed high def video you still get blurry pictures) that you will have serious problems with perception.

I'll give you a radicle idea, accept decisions.

[StandOffHalf]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

I thought the VR was really poor tonight in how rushed he presented it. I have to assume it is a directive, because to almost skirt past offside decisions and groundings without even explaining his rationale is a huge shift from previous. 

 

I agree. He seemed to speed through things. I thought the Wigan try was offside and I felt Minikin never dropped the ball.

Wigan deserved to win though, for sure.

Edited April 15, 2023 by StandOffHalf

[Snowys Backside]

13 minutes ago, Padge said:

I'll give you a radicle idea, accept decisions.

Spot on. Show me a ref who can ref like Holdsworth, Lindop and Thompson in todays era and every fan in the RL community will accept the odd ‘blip’. 
 

We currently have a group of refs who think the game is more about ‘them’, and it’s spoiling the game imho. No VR should increase their confidence ten fold !

Edited April 14, 2023 by Snowys Backside