Fri 14th Apr: SL: Warrington Wolves v Wigan Warriors KO 20:00 (Sky)

[GUBRATS]

15 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yep but not just the speed, the agility and fitness is amazing ....non stop and neutralised Wires shock and awe tactics through the middle 

Or were they offside ?

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was also a forth thing, and it happens in most games that is a hard fought contest, Josh Drinkwater goes missing, he has been instrumental with George William's in getting Wire on the front foot this term, but it looked last night that Williams was on his own.

In the two years he was at Leigh he did it, and also at Catalan, it is a part of his make-up the Lad has everything required skill wise, but he doesn't relish the fight.

I think in reality, the halves played off a well beaten pack, with no bench in support. That is different to the rest of the year and was ultimately the difference between the wins and the losses. 

I'm not gonna be critical of a halfback when we were pretty much playing in our own half on the back foot. 

[getdownmonkeyman]

1 hour ago, ChristianB said:

Wigan's determination aside, three things clearly blunted Warrington's free-scoring attack: the loss of several big forwards for rotation, the slippery conditions, and playing the occasion not the game.

How the defeat affects them will be interesting come Thursday at Saints. I think they will be ok, but do worry that they are only a couple more injuries away from losing their swagger entirely.

If Warrington have anymore injuries, certainly at prop, they will completely snookered.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think in reality, the halves played off a well beaten pack, with no bench in support. That is different to the rest of the year and was ultimately the difference between the wins and the losses. 

I'm not gonna be critical of a halfback when we were pretty much playing in our own half on the back foot. 

It was something I noticed and was very evident of Josh's playing in his time at Leigh and especially so in the '17 season when Leigh were in SL, and something I have taken special notice of since, it happened at Catalan also in hard fought games, William's put a load of effort into trying to turn the game around last night, not so much with Josh.

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It was something I noticed and was very evident of Josh's playing in his time at Leigh and especially so in the '17 season when Leigh were in SL, and something I have taken special notice of since, it happened at Catalan also in hard fought games, William's put a load of effort into trying to turn the game around last night, not so much with Josh.

Ultimately they are very different. Williams is a fantastic player, and far superior to Drinkwater.

I'm not too concerned about a half being ineffective behind a beaten pack. Drinkwater is nowhere near good enough to cancel that out. 

[Dave T]

30 minutes ago, getdownmonkeyman said:

If Warrington have anymore injuries, certainly at prop, they will completely snookered.

It's where Dudson deserves a real kick up the ass. He basically sat himself down for 5 games for no reason whatsoever. 

I know the coverage had a big Wigan slant last night, but Wire have pretty much gone top of the league by having a monster pack and no shortage of pace playing off that. That pack wasn't there last night - Philbin, Harrison, Dudson, Bullock, plus Mikaele just left. 

We need to bring in big bodies from somewhere for Thursday. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Dave T

[Padge]

Smart coaches build squads that give you resiliance in adversity.

The salary cap means that as you throw the big bucks at a few stars that squad gets thinner and weaker.

Warrington's lack of depth with injuries and suspensions was exposed, Wigan had similar first choice numbers out but coped better. That said Wire were in the game all through despite Wigan's dominance of posession and territory and that should be a concern for Matty Peet, Wigan should have killed that game in the first half. From a Warrington perspective I would say that Powell will be thinking that we coped with a lot of pressure in adversity and we had to lose sometime.

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Padge said:

Smart coaches build squads that give you resiliance in adversity.

The salary cap means that as you throw the big bucks at a few stars that squad gets thinner and weaker.

Warrington's lack of depth with injuries and suspensions was exposed, Wigan had similar first choice numbers out but coped better. That said Wire were in the game all through despite Wigan's dominance of posession and territory and that should be a concern for Matty Peet, Wigan should have killed that game in the first half. From a Warrington perspective I would say that Powell will be thinking that we coped with a lot of pressure in adversity and we had to lose sometime.

I'm not sure there is much in that (squad makeup). It is rare you will sign a squad with 7 props/middles and have to play with only 2 of them. 

I think it's one of those things, although I have made the point that we should have just had young big lads on the bench even if just to do 10minute stints. 

Russell did well and gave us some momentum, but I'm not sure changing a winger for a winger was the tactical change we needed last night! 

[LeytherRob]

19 minutes ago, Padge said:

Smart coaches build squads that give you resiliance in adversity.

The salary cap means that as you throw the big bucks at a few stars that squad gets thinner and weaker.

Warrington's lack of depth with injuries and suspensions was exposed, Wigan had similar first choice numbers out but coped better. That said Wire were in the game all through despite Wigan's dominance of posession and territory and that should be a concern for Matty Peet, Wigan should have killed that game in the first half. From a Warrington perspective I would say that Powell will be thinking that we coped with a lot of pressure in adversity and we had to lose sometime.

There isn't a squad in the league that has the depth to deal with losing 5 prop forwards and not take a dip, Warrington along with Huddersfield probably have the most depth in that position in the league to to suggest its a depth/recruitment issue is nonsense tbh. Looking at Wigans squad numbers they only have 6/7 experienced props in the squad so losing 5 would be every bit as harmful to them.

Looking round the league, prop is a massive struggle for depth currently. Saints only had 1 prop in their 17 last night

[Davo5]

41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's where Dudson deserves a real kick up the ass. He basically sat himself down for 5 games for no reason whatsoever. 

I know the coverage had a big Wigan slant last night, but Wire have pretty much gone top of the league by having a monster pack and no shortage of pace playing off that. That pack wasn't there last night - Philbin, Harrison, Dudson, Bullock, plus Mikaele just left. 

We need to bring in big bodies from somewhere for Thursday. 

A big Wigan slant,behave.

[Phil]

11 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

I agree. He seemed to speed through things. 

But on so many occasions they’re painfully slow “can we just go back and look at that first angle? Ok now have we got another view?”

When most of us have already seen that it’s a yes or no 

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

A big Wigan slant,behave.

You're welcome to your own view. I find Sky a little blunt in their analysis, they struggle to focus on more than one story. That's what I mean really, rather than any particular bias. 

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, Phil said:

But on so many occasions they’re painfully slow “can we just go back and look at that first angle? Ok now have we got another view?”

When most of us have already seen that it’s a yes or no 

The problems come when there is almost universal disagreement with the VR. Now that doesn't mean the VR is wrong, but it does mean that we should have better communication to educate everyone who is wrong as to why the decision has been made. 

As you say, they are often very slow, so what has suddenly changed? 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

The problems come when there is almost universal disagreement with the VR. Now that doesn't mean the VR is wrong, but it does mean that we should have better communication to educate everyone who is wrong as to why the decision has been made. 

As you say, they are often very slow, so what has suddenly changed? 

They’ve been told to speed it up? 

[Dave T]

27 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

There isn't a squad in the league that has the depth to deal with losing 5 prop forwards and not take a dip, Warrington along with Huddersfield probably have the most depth in that position in the league to to suggest its a depth/recruitment issue is nonsense tbh. Looking at Wigans squad numbers they only have 6/7 experienced props in the squad so losing 5 would be every bit as harmful to them.

Looking round the league, prop is a massive struggle for depth currently. Saints only had 1 prop in their 17 last night

I don't know whether it is accurate, but I saw on Facebook it was claimed that our one forward on the bench, Green, played fewer than 10 minutes. It really does seem like a bit of a gamrplan/selection error from Powell last night to me. 

I think he will have learnt a decent amount from that. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Phil said:

They’ve been told to speed it up? 

And the outcome of that is? 

VR's weren't taking their time for a laugh. 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

And the outcome of that is? 

VR's weren't taking their time for a laugh. 

Yeah but the continual going back for another look, another angle, not required in many cases 
 

The Aussies seem to do it pretty quickly and also get it spot on in a huge majority of calls 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Phil

[Dave T]

Just now, Phil said:

The Aussies seem to do it pretty quickly and also get it spot on in a huge majority of calls 

You'll be aware that their bunker is far more sophisticated than ours. And tbh, they have a completely different system. One which gives their VR far more time to make their decision. 

So, with respect, your above point is actually incorrect. 

[Phil]

Just now, Dave T said:

You'll be aware that their bunker is far more sophisticated than ours. And tbh, they have a completely different system. One which gives their VR far more time to make their decision. 

So, with respect, your above point is actually incorrect. 

We’ll have to disagree then

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

We’ll have to disagree then

You can't disagree with the facts about the NRL bunker Phil. 

They don't have to deal with a match director who often doesn't understand what the ref is asking for, watching it on a black and white portable with access to 3 camera angles from mobile phones

The technology in the NRL bunker is different league to ours. And they've changed the process to give VR's even more time to review. 

[bobbruce]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yeah but the continual going back for another look, another angle, not required in many cases 
 

The Aussies seem to do it pretty quickly and also get it spot on in a huge majority of calls 

The Aussies have multiple refs looking at multiple screens sat with someone able to control the footage that’s why their decisions speeded up. 

[bobbruce]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You can't disagree with the facts about the NRL bunker Phil. 

They don't have to deal with a match director who often doesn't understand what the ref is asking for, watching it on a black and white portable with access to 3 camera angles from mobile phones

The technology in the NRL bunker is different league to ours. And they've changed the process to give VR's even more time to review. 

That’s actually a really good point Dave we don’t know if the bunker has speeded up the process. We only know they are looking at it when they’ve found the camera angle they want. 

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You can't disagree with the facts about the NRL bunker Phil. 

They don't have to deal with a match director who often doesn't understand what the ref is asking for, watching it on a black and white portable with access to 3 camera angles from mobile phones

The technology in the NRL bunker is different league to ours. And they've changed the process to give VR's even more time to review. 

Good points 

[Snowys Backside]

Can you imagine if VRs gave forward passes ?

Rhinos would have been in the Championship years ago !

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

Good points 

I don't have an issue with the principle of speeding things up. It did get a bit silly when we had the same ref looking at the same angle maybe a dozen times. But if there is an instruction to watch things just once or twice to speed it up, it is pretty much a given that we will see more mistakes. That may be a conscious decision to keep the tempo up, as being honest, we don't get 100% accuracy anyway. 

My biggest challenge is that the VR providing audio has been an excellent development, and it's become a little redundant now as they seem to be trying to keep their thoughts secret for the big screen reveal.