Sat 29 Apr: Intl (Men): England v France KO 16:30 (Sky)

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Madrileño said:

100% @Phil

Unfortunately this forum is littered with the same kind of thoughts...ie: France is not our problem.

It is short-sighted navel gazing, and will eventually kill the sport off as a viable professional concern in Europe. 

However, there is a weird sort of anti-foreigner vibe among a lot of English fans. It is tragic, as an idiot can see that it is very much "our job" to improve the game in one of only 2 European Countries who play professionally. However I have found that some of the  (particularly older) fanbase are impossible to shift in their views. 

there is a weird sort of anti-foreigner vibe among a lot of English fans. 

Your evidence for this bizarre claim what, exactly?

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, WN83 said:

I think they would improve ‘if’ they could get a first choice team out there.  The question tonight needs to be why were they missing so many players? We know why we were missing players and some clubs should feel ashamed but we can cope. The French need their best side out there and Toulouse and especially Catalans need to have serious questions asked of them if they’re pulling players out. They have ambitions of their own as clubs, of course they do, but ultimately they play in the British comp to enable the game to grow in France, by producing better players for the national side. If they neglect that responsibility, then what’s the end goal? I think Catalans in particular have been lucky to avoid criticism this past 15+ years for what has been very little progress made by the French national side. Filling their side with English and Aussie/Kiwi players isn’t why they were brought in IMO.

Totally agree 

[sentoffagain2]

   Today's  results will not help French Rugby League.I don't see the point in playing against totally inferior opponents.France need to build confidence against teams of similar ability even if that is a club side or a hybrid team of players.It was a good work out for the England team who performed well.What will the few French supporters think when they see the scorelines.Hardly encourage them for future games.

[Fax Knight]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

The other thing that struck me today is just how big and athletic modern day Rugby League players are.

I was thinking how Tom Holroyd was a bit of throwback to the tough nuggety props and then checked and he is 6' 2" and 18 stone!

Tom wasn’t much smaller when he was 14- 15 playing junior rugby. It used to be brutal watching him trample some poor 11 stone kid underfoot on his way to yet another try for Siddal.  

[WN83]

2 hours ago, Fax Knight said:

Tom wasn’t much smaller when he was 14- 15 playing junior rugby. It used to be brutal watching him trample some poor 11 stone kid underfoot on his way to yet another try for Siddal.  

Unreal some of the talent Siddal have produced in recent years. We’ve obviously got Smithies at Wigan and were good enough to gift Nicholson to Wire. We also had Amir Bourouh, there’s Holroyd at Leeds and Riley Dean as well at Wire. I think all of them bar Nicholson were in the same team weren’t they? They must’ve absolutely battered teams. Dupree Is another as well iirc. 

[JohnM]

I dunno...maybe I've got it all wrong. England womens rugby union blowout against France is being celebrated  as a great victory whilst here's me thinking that our result today is doing nothing for our sport.

[The Partisan]

Only seen a 5 min highlights package but looks like France held England for the first 20 mins (down 10-0) and then for the first 10 mins of the 2nd half. Obviously England cut loose outside these periods. 

As a neutral and international rugby league advocate I am disappointed in the blowout but it is not the end of the world. 

 

 

 

Nice to see a neutral ref too .... oh hang on

 

 

[AB90]

8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I thought they looked a special group in 2018 when they won that series 2-0.  Holroyd, Havard and Smithies in the pack, Welsby, Newman and Smith were the pick of the team and I am pleased to see them progress to full international honours. 

2 more years and we could have a very good England team for the 2025 Cup.

Morgan Smithies is a tough one because if Morgan Knowles & Victor Radley are fit and healthy in 2025 then I struggle to see how he breaks into the team at 13. It’s looking like our deepest position by far.

[Madrileño]

10 hours ago, wilsontown said:

 

I want the best for our game and I don't appreciate being accused of lying.

It happens a lot on here mate. Try not to let it bother you. 

There was a guy on here last night accusing me of being involved with the BBC!  

[JohnM]

26 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

It happens a lot on here mate. Try not to let it bother you. 

There was a guy on here last night accusing me of being involved with the BBC!  

That's actionable. Do tell us who that was.

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Today's  results will not help French Rugby League.I don't see the point in playing against totally inferior opponents.France need to build confidence against teams of similar ability even if that is a club side or a hybrid team of players.It was a good work out for the England team who performed well.What will the few French supporters think when they see the scorelines.Hardly encourage them for future games.

That’s a good point about club teams, they could do an end of season tour and play against a couple of club sides who don’t make the play offs and Cumbria, it might get decent crowds. What is clear is that they shouldn’t be playing England once a year. 

[Themusician_2]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That’s a good point about club teams, they could do an end of season tour and play against a couple of club sides who don’t make the play offs and Cumbria, it might get decent crowds. What is clear is that they shouldn’t be playing England once a year. 

Could backfire too. Didn't they lose to some park football side in their Australia tour? The French national team hasn't really improved much despite having more super league players than ever. Makes me worry about the 2025 WC. The only way they will ever improve is by playing ENG, AUS, and NZL more often even if they lose by 40+ points.

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Could backfire too. Didn't they lose to some park football side in their Australia tour? The French national team hasn't really improved much despite having more super league players than ever. Makes me worry about the 2025 WC. The only way they will ever improve is by playing ENG, AUS, and NZL more often even if they lose by 40+ points.

Do you really think regularly getting battered by 40-60 points will help them improve?  Must admit I can’t see how that would help. 

[JohnM]

There's a difference in being involved in the development of France's international competitiveness and being committed to the development of France's international competitiveness.  

The committment, the drive, the ambition has to come from France.

Think "bacon and egg breakfast". The hen sure is involved, but the pig is definitely committed.

French players need in my view to build the stamina and intensity that was so evidently missing yesterday,and that really can only be done, I believe, in regular and frequent games against England.

[overtheborder]

To be fair to France, I think the fact they were apparently so far off the pace (I didn't watch the game so making an assumption) is just a symptom of where international rugby league is at. I think they could play whoever once a year, but if that's the only game you play in a year bar a World Cup, how is anyone going to realistically be able to develop a squad?

I think the key is more volume - the England vs Tonga announcement was really encouraging IMO and I think the more of that kind of game you play as an international side, the more time has to spent working with the squad and proving/disproving the methods you're using structurally, and that's when we might see some improvement.

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, AB90 said:

Morgan Smithies is a tough one because if Morgan Knowles & Victor Radley are fit and healthy in 2025 then I struggle to see how he breaks into the team at 13. It’s looking like our deepest position by far.

If Smithies adds more running and passing into his game then he can certainly be up there with those two.

Watching those schoolboy tests, he was tough but also the creative edge in the forwards, linking with the halves to go effect.

When he arrived on the scene at Wigan he quickly gained a reputation as a workhorse, topping tackle counts, but I do think he can add more to his game and I think he showed a bit of that yesterday.

What is important for England is our strength in depth is really starting to show.

The 17 we pick for the first test against Tonga would probably have another 17 behind it that wouldn't look out of place.

[Themusician_2]

51 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you really think regularly getting battered by 40-60 points will help them improve?  Must admit I can’t see how that would help. 

It will expose France to a higher level of RL which will be nessacary for the 2025 WC.

[Tommygilf]

7 hours ago, WN83 said:

Unreal some of the talent Siddal have produced in recent years. We’ve obviously got Smithies at Wigan and were good enough to gift Nicholson to Wire. We also had Amir Bourouh, there’s Holroyd at Leeds and Riley Dean as well at Wire. I think all of them bar Nicholson were in the same team weren’t they? They must’ve absolutely battered teams. Dupree Is another as well iirc. 

Siddal is an interesting case because in recent years they've become a super club of sorts at junior levels, attracting talent from all over at 14+.

Academy scouts like it because it means they have to visit less teams. For Siddal its a double edged sword. On the one hand they get a good reputation as a club that regularly sends players to Super League academies, but on the other hand their teams are decimated by this transfer of players and they can't raise teams at some levels because the locals who would have turned out were pushed out for the imports from other clubs.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

I thought that Catalans and to a degree Toulouse, entering the English League was to improve France as an International team. Well after watching that, it isn't happening.

 

 

 

 

 

I remember those statements very well indeed Gooley that teams from France partaking in our competition will go a long way to improving the French National team, but there are those who for some reason deny this or come back with scant remarks, the only other reason I can see for their involvement is to give the supporters who so choose to go to watch their team in places they would not do so otherwise.

And your last sentance is correct, France offer no more competition internationally than pre 2006 when Catalan entered SL.

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, Madrileño said:

However I have found that some of the  (particularly older) fanbase are impossible to shift in their views. 

Are you one of those who look at older people and assume they were born at that age, do you not consider for one monent that they may have a life time of expierience to call on and can have some meaningful contributions to make, it is not the first time you have exhibited your discrimination or 'ageism' against people on the basis of their age.

Anyway good luck in achieving your advancing years.

[Madrileño]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Are you one of those who look at older people and assume they were born at that age, 

No. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Themusician_2 said:

It will expose France to a higher level of RL which will be nessacary for the 2025 WC.

Realistically, could those advocating more games each season for the French National team please tell me how they are going to fit these games into a season's calendar?

The two higher profile French clubs who would provide the most player's seem reluctant or indeed some of the player's themselves are not responsive to represent their National team, even one such as yesterday when it was the only Test International scheduled this season and a dedicated 'free' week from the regular fixture list was organised.

[bobbruce]

13 hours ago, WN83 said:

I think they would improve ‘if’ they could get a first choice team out there.  The question tonight needs to be why were they missing so many players? We know why we were missing players and some clubs should feel ashamed but we can cope. The French need their best side out there and Toulouse and especially Catalans need to have serious questions asked of them if they’re pulling players out. They have ambitions of their own as clubs, of course they do, but ultimately they play in the British comp to enable the game to grow in France, by producing better players for the national side. If they neglect that responsibility, then what’s the end goal? I think Catalans in particular have been lucky to avoid criticism this past 15+ years for what has been very little progress made by the French national side. Filling their side with English and Aussie/Kiwi players isn’t why they were brought in IMO.

Which clubs should feel ashamed?.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I remember those statements very well indeed Gooley that teams from France partaking in our competition will go a long way to improving the French National team, but there are those who for some reason deny this or come back with scant remarks, the only other reason I can see for their involvement is to give the supporters who so choose to go to watch their team in places they would not do so otherwise.

And your last sentance is correct, France offer no more competition internationally than pre 2006 when Catalan entered SL.

I would argue the quality of french player is better and the depth is deeper, if still shallow as it always would be with one professional side. 

Why they are not turning out for the national side is a different matter.

They also need a decent coach. 

I would also argue England are a lot better than in 2006 as well. 

[JohnM]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Realistically, could those advocating more games each season for the French National team please tell me how they are going to fit these games into a season's calendar?

The two higher profile French clubs who would provide the most player's seem reluctant or indeed some of the player's themselves are not responsive to represent their National team, even one such as yesterday when it was the only Test International scheduled this season and a dedicated 'free' week from the regular fixture list was organised.

I advocate more such games but as I stated (iirc) it needs funding. Fewer SL/Champ games to make space and avoid fixture congestion. Maybe £1,000,000 per club per season would help, but I'm saving for a new Bentley instead.