Report: 2025 World Cup on verge of collapse

[Anita Bath]

3 hours ago, Gomersall said:

Will the Aussie government chip in if Australia put their hands up to host because we all know the attendances won’t be much to write home about if they do?

Aussie government already on the tab for FIFA womens world cup, mens and womens rugby world cup, commonwealth games and 32 olympics. The trough has run dry.

 

And there is a british lions tour as well though I dont think they are involved directly in funding that.

[Dirkgee]

3 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Here's an idea   a bit left field,  but unique.

A WC in four different countries,  as Euro 2020( 2021) was played in different cities, we have a RL WC , four groups of four, one group each played in Australia,  New Zealand,  France and England.

No sport has ever tried that,  so it would grab headlines for that reason alone. A true " World" Cup.

Matches down under kicking off normal times, so between 8 and 11 am in England, then the France group about 5pm local,  and the England group game at 8pm local.

One match a day from each group,  all TGG supporters feel part of it, all get matches to see locally.  It would be cost effective too,  less teams traversing the globe, low carbon footprint as well.

The World Baseball Classic did that this year. There were 4 groups, one in Tokyo, one in Taipei, one in Miami, and one in Phoenix. Then the knockout rounds were in Miami. Worked quite well

[Sports Prophet]

 

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Ok. Sure. What is that meant to mean?

As I said earlier, by the end of this year, the NRL will have organised and bankrolled at least six international fixtures, likely more, featuring six nations, whilst the next best governing body of the sport will have organised four international fixtures, featuring just three nations. 

The results speak for themselves. Outside of World Cup events, the NRL have done far more for the international game than any other body.

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Greece v Serbia tomorrow.

Must remember to thank the NRL.

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Do what you like strawman.

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

No, I like acknowledging the hard work being done by the European Rugby League in tough conditions and prefer engaging with things that are real and confirmed to fantasy.

I like to deal in the facts too. Add with fairness and reason as well. You presented an off the cuff comment per the conversation quoted above, noting your acknowledgement of the great work of our European friends, insinuating that I don’t respect their work, but that was never in dispute. Your comment was an irrelevant, strawman response to the conversation that was taking place.

For the record, I think they do a great job too and I don’t think I have ever said anything contrary.

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

You think wrong. The last “unprofitable” World Cup raised many millions for the game. I know it was complicated to work out, but the last World Cup was an absolute triumph for the game’s local and international development. 

Great to hear. Not sure it was financially profitable, but I can respect that it was very profitable in other, non monetary terms like you say.

Again, that was never in dispute and it doesn’t dissuade my suggestion on the unlikelihood of the British government funding a 2025 RLWC, having just funded the 2021/22 version. Especially with other large scale, government funded sports events on the British horizon.

4 hours ago, Damien said:

Yes because it would be Australia's turn. That is why they were so quick to dump it on France in the first place.

There is no such thing as “turns” when it comes to hosting a WC. If the NRL didn’t want to host 2025 there would have been good reason for it.

Certainly, one of the biggest priorities for the NRL at the time was lobbying the NSW government for over a billion dollars of tax payer dollars to be allocated to upgrading the state’s premier RL sporting venues. It is very plausible that the NRL prioritised this initiative over hosting the 2025 RLWC and I don’t think anyone should be holding that against the NRL.

[Damien]

Just now, Sports Prophet said:

There is no such thing as “turns” when it comes to hosting a WC. If the NRL didn’t want to host 2025 there would have been good reason for it.

Certainly, one of the biggest priorities for the NRL at the time was lobbying the NSW government for over a billion dollars of tax payer dollars to be allocated to upgrading the state’s premier RL sporting venues. It is very plausible that the NRL prioritised this initiative over hosting the 2025 RLWC and I don’t think anyone should be holding that against the NRL.

Rubbish. Some years ago it was decided the World Cup would alternate between the northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere.

As the only two countries, with fully professional leagues that can realistically hold a World Cup without huge government support as France supposedly got, then both England and Australia have an obligation to lead the game and host it in the absence of alternatives. Australia as far and away the richest and most powerful RL nation are all too often lacking when it comes to being a guardian for the game.

Lobbying for stadiums is an absolutely woeful excuse not to hold a World Cup and the two aren't mutually exclusive. This is especially so when the same venues will be used for a RU World Cup.

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is no such thing as “turns” when it comes to hosting a WC. If the NRL didn’t want to host 2025 there would have been good reason for it.

Certainly, one of the biggest priorities for the NRL at the time was lobbying the NSW government for over a billion dollars of tax payer dollars to be allocated to upgrading the state’s premier RL sporting venues. It is very plausible that the NRL prioritised this initiative over hosting the 2025 RLWC and I don’t think anyone should be holding that against the NRL.

Surely it wouldn't be the NRL hosting/organising any world cup in Australia, but the ARLC?

[Jparrish]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

And guess what… should France withdraw from hosting 2025 (which I don’t think will happen), which country will be responsible for picking up the late tab to ensure it happens anywhere in 2025?

Go on, have a guess. 

I’ll give you a hint, it won’t be England.

Australia should of "picked it up" for 2025 either alone as a Co host with NZ but they weren't interested such is there disregard for international RL. And ill ask you like I've asked many people, where is the confirmation of this fantasy 4 nations we keep hearing of ?

France could of had time to organise and plan for 2029. That would of been much more workable

[Dirkgee]

9 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Surely it wouldn't be the NRL hosting/organising any world cup in Australia, but the ARLC?

They are one and the same now. Vlandys is the Chairman of the ARLC not the NRL like some think. But he also is the one who represents the NRL in the media

The ARLC doesn't even have a website, it just goes to a page on the NRLs one.

[Barley Mow]

6 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

They are one and the same now. Vlandys is the Chairman of the ARLC not the NRL like some think. But he also is the one who represents the NRL in the media

The ARLC doesn't even have a website, it just goes to a page on the NRLs one.

They both still exist as separate entities though and the ARLC has additional members beyond the NRL clubs?

Edited May 12, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Sports Prophet]

21 minutes ago, Damien said:

 

Lobbying for stadiums is an absolutely woeful excuse not to hold a World Cup and the two aren't mutually exclusive. This is especially so when the same venues will be used for a RU World Cup.

Well this is about the most naive thing I have heard you say. Do you think there is a never ending pot of money for sports and sports events?

Nor was Australia ever selected as host of the RWC on the basis there would be stadium upgrades. 

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, Jparrish said:

Australia should of "picked it up" for 2025 either alone as a Co host with NZ but they weren't interested such is there disregard for international RL. And ill ask you like I've asked many people, where is the confirmation of this fantasy 4 nations we keep hearing of ?

France could have had time to organise and plan for 2029. That would of been much more workable

 I think I have given a very good description of what at the time was the NRL’s priority for public funding, which explains a hesitancy to jump in for 2025.

If you disagree that the RLWC should have been of a higher priority than stadium upgrades, then that’s fine.

[UTK]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Exactly, the entire talk had always been about including Tonga in a series.

Where has there been any commentary from Tonga confirming they chose to go to England because the proposed tournament you quote had not yet been ratified?

I haven’t seen or heard any. I welcome anyone to show evidence.

Failing that, I stand by the comment Tonga chose to go to England, because Tonga chose to go to England, nothing to do with whether the Pacific Four Nations concept had been finalised or not.

https://www.codesports.com.au/nrl/international-rugby-league-set-for-shakeup-after-tonga-rejects-fournations-plan/news-story/2d56b4bc8d5900fbb0382e144c840c9d

Headline doesn't really reflect the story but as per Kristian Woolf: 

“Everything we do is player driven,” Woolf said. “It’s about the players. What they want to do and how they want to represent Tonga. They have shown plenty of times how much that means to them.

“These talks have been going on since the World Cup ended. There was no proposal for another opportunity. It came to a point where we had to make a decision on what was in front of us and in the end there was only one opportunity.”

Then Abdo comments on the situation: 

We will still continue with our planned dedicated window of four weeks following the week after (the grand final) being Australia in Australia and New Zealand,” Abdo wrote. “Tonga will no longer participate in this event in 2023.”

So it's fairly obvious that there is going to be a post-season tournament but such plans aren't progressed enough to be set in stone at this point. Tonga understandably want guaranteed fixtures for their players so drew a line in the sand and took the only finalised option at that point in time. The article states the discussions have been ongoing since the WC so England was understandably the backup plan as they held out for a SH series but these plans did not solidify fast enough. The NRL dropped the ball here.

 

Now England get an opportunity to be saved from the International wilderness provided the opportunity is a financial success - I'm very confident it will be, but if it isn't England are stuffed because their games in the SH aren't financially viable down here and no Island sides will go on a tour that costs them money. Just as importantly for England it means they can finally breathe easy and wash their hands of the rest of Europe again.

[Sports Prophet]

44 minutes ago, Damien said:

As the only two countries, with fully professional leagues that can realistically hold a World Cup without huge government support as France supposedly got, then both England and Australia have an obligation to lead the game and host it in the absence of alternatives. Australia as far and away the richest and most powerful RL nation are all too often lacking when it comes to being a guardian for the game.

France threw their hat in the ring with the backing of millions from their national government. Are you now suggesting the NRL are poor guardians of the sport for not bidding against France. Ridiculous.

As I have clearly stated before, if France falls over, I do expect the WC to be hosted in Aus. I said this for the very same reason you suggest, because Australia can host an event at short notice with minimal external funding. So what are you actually arguing with me for?

[Sports Prophet]

Just now, UTK said:

https://www.codesports.com.au/nrl/international-rugby-league-set-for-shakeup-after-tonga-rejects-fournations-plan/news-story/2d56b4bc8d5900fbb0382e144c840c9d

Headline doesn't really reflect the story but as per Kristian Woolf: 

“Everything we do is player driven,” Woolf said. “It’s about the players. What they want to do and how they want to represent Tonga. They have shown plenty of times how much that means to them.

“These talks have been going on since the World Cup ended. There was no proposal for another opportunity. It came to a point where we had to make a decision on what was in front of us and in the end there was only one opportunity.”

Then Abdo comments on the situation: 

We will still continue with our planned dedicated window of four weeks following the week after (the grand final) being Australia in Australia and New Zealand,” Abdo wrote. “Tonga will no longer participate in this event in 2023.”

So it's fairly obvious that there is going to be a post-season tournament but such plans aren't progressed enough to be set in stone at this point. Tonga understandably want guaranteed fixtures for their players so drew a line in the sand and took the only finalised option at that point in time. The article states the discussions have been ongoing since the WC so England was understandably the backup plan as they held out for a SH series but these plans did not solidify fast enough. The NRL dropped the ball here.

 

Now England get an opportunity to be saved from the International wilderness provided the opportunity is a financial success - I'm very confident it will be, but if it isn't England are stuffed because their games in the SH aren't financially viable down here and no Island sides will go on a tour that costs them money. Just as importantly for England it means they can finally breathe easy and wash their hands of the rest of Europe again.

Good post. I don’t have a subscription for that website.

Pleased to see the article quotes administrators who confirm everything I have been saying on the topic as correct.

[Sports Prophet]

47 minutes ago, Damien said:

Rubbish. Some years ago it was decided the World Cup would alternate between the northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere.

If it was decided years ago to alternate hemispheres like you suggest, why was 2025 scheduled for USA? Why did France lobby the French government for funding when USA fell over?

[Jim from Oz]

5 hours ago, UTK said:

https://www.codesports.com.au/nrl/international-rugby-league-set-for-shakeup-after-tonga-rejects-fournations-plan/news-story/2d56b4bc8d5900fbb0382e144c840c9d

Headline doesn't really reflect the story but as per Kristian Woolf: 

“Everything we do is player driven,” Woolf said. “It’s about the players. What they want to do and how they want to represent Tonga. They have shown plenty of times how much that means to them.

“These talks have been going on since the World Cup ended. There was no proposal for another opportunity. It came to a point where we had to make a decision on what was in front of us and in the end there was only one opportunity.”

Then Abdo comments on the situation: 

We will still continue with our planned dedicated window of four weeks following the week after (the grand final) being Australia in Australia and New Zealand,” Abdo wrote. “Tonga will no longer participate in this event in 2023.”

So it's fairly obvious that there is going to be a post-season tournament but such plans aren't progressed enough to be set in stone at this point. Tonga understandably want guaranteed fixtures for their players so drew a line in the sand and took the only finalised option at that point in time. The article states the discussions have been ongoing since the WC so England was understandably the backup plan as they held out for a SH series but these plans did not solidify fast enough. The NRL dropped the ball here.

 

Now England get an opportunity to be saved from the International wilderness provided the opportunity is a financial success - I'm very confident it will be, but if it isn't England are stuffed because their games in the SH aren't financially viable down here and no Island sides will go on a tour that costs them money. Just as importantly for England it means they can finally breathe easy and wash their hands of the rest of Europe again.

That story is behind a pay wall… Can someone please post all of it? Thanks.

 

[Gomersall]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

 I think I have given a very good description of what at the time was the NRL’s priority for public funding, which explains a hesitancy to jump in for 2025.

If you disagree that the RLWC should have been of a higher priority than stadium upgrades, then that’s fine.

The NRL”s priority in your opinion. I thought you only dealt in facts?

[Gomersall]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Good post. I don’t have a subscription for that website.

Pleased to see the article quotes administrators who confirm everything I have been saying on the topic as correct.

Except you denied Tonga chose to tour England because the proposed 4 Nations tournament in Australia wasn’t confirmed.

[Sports Prophet]

31 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

The NRL”s priority in your opinion. I thought you only dealt in facts?

not exactly, I said I like to talk factually, not only talk factually. I love to share ideas, opinions and theorise. 

Yours is a fair comment though, I was presenting that piece more factually when it was only my opinion.

28 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Except you denied Tonga chose to tour England because the proposed 4 Nations tournament in Australia wasn’t confirmed.

Correct, that being the first time I have seen any such report, so you were right, the lack of a fully scheduled series does appear to have influenced the Tongan decision to go to England.

Although I contest Wolf’s assertion there were no other proposals. Abdo confirms there is a NRL proposal.

[The Masked Poster]

How about this? 

The winner of Eurovision has to hold the tournament? Re-sult

[moorside roughyed]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

How about this? 

The winner of Eurovision has to hold the tournament? Re-sult

What an idea, genius

[The Masked Poster]

5 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

What an idea, genius

Definitely generate plenty of publicity. Get Rylan and some random drag queen hosting the draw, jobs sorted. Radio 2 would be all over it. 

[moorside roughyed]

7 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Definitely generate plenty of publicity. Get Rylan and some random drag queen hosting the draw, jobs sorted. Radio 2 would be all over it. 

At last. Someone with a decent idea. Get an email sent to the rfl pronto.

[The Partisan]

22 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

How about this? 

The winner of Eurovision has to hold the tournament? Re-sult

Aren't Australia in the semi finals ?

[Gomersall]

26 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Definitely generate plenty of publicity. Get Rylan and some random drag queen hosting the draw, jobs sorted. Radio 2 would be all over it. 

It’ll be mentioned on every possible BBC programme.