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Grammar Alert!


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Grammar has and will continue to change. It still grates, however, when I hear new grammar gaining greater acceptance which is not what I was brought up on. When I take the trouble to research a word that sounds wrong, there are reasons put out showing why it has a legitimate usage.

I was reading today where a vehicle "could be headed Down Under". Then later, the same publication stated about a convention "is headed to the...Exhibition Centre".

Apparently, there is a case for the use of headed but to me, it's been 'heading' unless a football player has put a ball into the net (past tense). I'm not a grammar specialist by any means but some things sound right to the ear and others not so. I don't use headed, just heading but I'm hearing and reading the former more often than I used to. Changing times I guess or am I just getting too old?

Are there words or terms that you find tend to grate with you?

 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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In terms of written grammar, the misplaced apostrophe really gets on my #### but in terms of speech, there isn't anything particularly. I understand that language changes and adapts over the ages and that some people won't be as educated as myself or yourself and so maybe won't understand correct grammar to the same degree and as long as I can understand what they are trying to convey to me then I am fine with that. 

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1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

In terms of written grammar, the misplaced apostrophe really gets on my #### but in terms of speech, there isn't anything particularly. I understand that language changes and adapts over the ages and that some people won't be as educated as myself or yourself and so maybe won't understand correct grammar to the same degree and as long as I can understand what they are trying to convey to me then I am fine with that. 

The thing is, right, like, looking forward, we've a great future ahead of us ......

For me, the issue is whether I really do understand what others are trying to convey. By both parties adhering to the same set of rules of grammar, syntax, spelling etc, there's a much better chance of understanding each other than if we don't use the same rules. 

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I'm quite relaxed about grammar when people are speaking because it is usually informal, which means things like, "Me and Tom used to go to Maine Road" are okay. Indeed, in an informal context, "Thomas and I used to go Maine Road" would seem wrong.

Where I draw a line is when people who make their living by writing, for example journalists, get the grammar wrong. There is no excuse for that. Imagine a car mechanic who didn't know how to use the tools of his trade. Unacceptable!

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One that grates for many musicians is the use, common in journalism/broadcasting, of "building to a crescendo".

"Building to a crescendo" is a tautology, like "speeding up to an acceleration".

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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Surely it’s “Incorrect Grammar alert” 😜

If my Grammar was incorrect, she'd be my Grampa!

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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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11 hours ago, Futtocks said:

One that grates for many musicians is the use, common in journalism/broadcasting, of "building to a crescendo".

"Building to a crescendo" is a tautology, like "speeding up to an acceleration".

I've often heard it but just accepted it without really thinking about it. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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8 hours ago, meast said:

Was instead of we seems to have become the accepted way now.

"We was crossing the road" etc

And of course, the there, their, they're shambles and have and if still makes me grumpy!

I could list dozens of common 'mistakes', but they are largely trivial. Some are even due to dialects  for example, "I were talking to Bill yesterday." It should, of course, be "I was talking to Bill yesterday." But, who cares? In an informal context, it does not matter. However, if a journalist gets it wrong, he/she should be strung up on the nearest gibbet.

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On 31/05/2023 at 22:08, RayCee said:

Do you do the maths or do the math? I personally do the maths but notice the other way is gaining in popularity in NZ.

Ever encroaching American cultural influence for you.

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3 hours ago, tonyXIII said:

I could list dozens of common 'mistakes', but they are largely trivial. Some are even due to dialects  for example, "I were talking to Bill yesterday." It should, of course, be "I was talking to Bill yesterday." But, who cares? In an informal context, it does not matter. However, if a journalist gets it wrong, he/she should be strung up on the nearest gibbet.

How you talk is important and some are able to change very well for the audience. Class, power, authority and prestige are all tied up in this. Though sometimes people try to be more accented in some scenarios to come across as more normal.

My favourite has to be the sky sports ref watch former Referee, who most people who watch him only on sky sports will be shocked to find out he actually has a strong irish accent!

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

How you talk is important and some are able to change very well for the audience. Class, power, authority and prestige are all tied up in this. Though sometimes people try to be more accented in some scenarios to come across as more normal.

My favourite has to be the sky sports ref watch former Referee, who most people who watch him only on sky sports will be shocked to find out he actually has a strong irish accent!

"Code switching" is how my English Language teacher termed it(*), giving the fairly honest example that how he sounded when teaching us with authority was not quite how he sounded when supporting Sunderland on the terraces.

(* = looking into it a bit later, I think he did slightly misuse the term but it's close enough)

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

How you talk is important and some are able to change very well for the audience. Class, power, authority and prestige are all tied up in this. Though sometimes people try to be more accented in some scenarios to come across as more normal.

My favourite has to be the sky sports ref watch former Referee, who most people who watch him only on sky sports will be shocked to find out he actually has a strong irish accent!

On cue!

 

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On 31/05/2023 at 08:48, tonyXIII said:

I'm quite relaxed about grammar when people are speaking because it is usually informal, which means things like, "Me and Tom used to go to Maine Road" are okay. Indeed, in an informal context, "Thomas and I used to go Maine Road" would seem wrong.

Where I draw a line is when people who make their living by writing, for example journalists, get the grammar wrong. There is no excuse for that. Imagine a car mechanic who didn't know how to use the tools of his trade. Unacceptable!

I read somewhere that the whole 'x and I' rule was basically made up by the people who wrote the first grammar books. They were obsessed with Latin and wanted English to follow Latin rules. That's why it doesn't feel natural, no one talks like that.

Language is constantly evolving  and in many ways it is the written word that causes the problems as it creates this idea of a fixed language that doesn't exist.

One of my favourite examples of language evolving is how English has never sufficiently accounted for 'you' being used in the singular. Traditionally, thou was used for singular and you was plural but this changed over time and you became common as a singular term too. Many dialects have then needed to create something to fill the void caused by this. As a NW Englishman we use 'yous' but there is 'y'all' as another from the US, both of which would be frowned upon for being grammatically incorrect.

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7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Ever encroaching American cultural influence for you.

Trust me this is accelerating.

The YouTube generation are very Americanised. Trash is basically common usage, but you hear candy and others a lot.

I've even taught kids with vaguely Americanised accents.

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21 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Trust me this is accelerating.

The YouTube generation are very Americanised. Trash is basically common usage, but you hear candy and others a lot.

I've even taught kids with vaguely Americanised accents.

Americanish

We say toilet....they say rest room

We say bog......they say rest room

We say cludgy..they say rest room

We say round , stiff bread with a hole in the middle that is next to useless for mekin sarnies..they say bagel *

We say aluminium ...they say aloominum.....back to rest room

* once 'bagel' is split and prepped.....butter all over fingers and a pain to 'assange' filling around the round.

 

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I have two that really make me want turn the radio off and are probably irrational, but I hear them too often.

One of them is on the traffic news, usually radio 5 live, when they say "The accident has now been moved onto the hard shoulder". You can't move an accident!

The second is an advert for a cruise ship company when they say "you can literally touch the view". You can't touch a view!

 

 

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On 01/06/2023 at 23:23, meast said:

Was instead of we seems to have become the accepted way now.

"We was crossing the road" etc

And of course, the there, their, they're shambles and have and if still makes me grumpy!

"We we crossing the road"?!?!

Conjures up an unfortunate image...

There are so many that hack me off I can't be bothered to list them all. I admire TonyXIII for his tolerance, his stress levels must always be zero.

I met up with a lady on a kind of blind date type thing some time ago. I mistakenly thought she'd been shopping for her mother prior to meeting up but when I asked if she had any perishable or frozen goods in her car, as we'd been talking for a while, she replied "Oh no, I didn't get no shopping".

Man, I hate double negatives, didn't see her again.

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With Halloween coming up I decided to go to my local fancy dress shop to see if I could get a Dracula costume. After a few minutes the assistant handed me a Hull KR shirt asking "Is this suitable?", I replied "I think you may have misheard me, I said I wanted to look like a count."
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On 02/06/2023 at 08:18, tonyXIII said:

I could list dozens of common 'mistakes', but they are largely trivial. Some are even due to dialects  for example, "I were talking to Bill yesterday." It should, of course, be "I was talking to Bill yesterday." But, who cares? In an informal context, it does not matter. However, if a journalist gets it wrong, he/she should be strung up on the nearest gibbet.

I agree with your posts on this and a lot of it is certainly down to dialect, education, background and your influences.

For me there is a huge difference between spoken and written grammar and the way I write is quite different to the way I speak. My writing is much more grammatically correct (insert joke of your choice about my posts here) and standard, for want of a better word, than the way I speak. This is only something I really noticed when I went to University and it was something I was very conscious of, and still am in my work. It's usually just really little things.

I think for many from areas of the North, and of course elsewhere too like the midlands, this is the same. A noticeable exception of course is those that go to a public school and seem to all speak in a uniform way no matter where they are from.

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7 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree with your posts on this and a lot of it is certainly down to dialect, education, background and your influences.

For me there is a huge difference between spoken and written grammar and the way I write is quite different to the way I speak. My writing is much more grammatically correct (insert joke of your choice about my posts here) and standard, for want of a better word, than the way I speak. This is only something I really noticed when I went to University and it was something I was very conscious of, and still am in my work.

I think for many from areas of the North, and of course elsewhere too like the midlands, this is the same. A noticeable exception of course is those that go to a public school and seem to all speak in a uniform way no matter where they are from.

The difference between formal and informal English only became apparent to me when I began teaching English to my students here in Greece. Imagine how hard it must be not just to learn English, but to learn when and how to use formal/informal language. I am blown away by how good some of them are. If you want the top EFL certificate (Proficiency in English), you have to get the register (degree of formality) spot on as well as the grammar and vocabulary.

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