Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy - An Immediate Retirement

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I admit I haven't read the study, but I wonder if there was an element of selection bias with the research - i.e. possibly the people who would want to donate their brains for research are perhaps people who have concerns about their brain health? It's no small deal donating a brain for research!

The authors acknowledge that as a potential limitation of the study but point out the prevalence of CTE observed is in line with other studies involving different contact sports. The main finding is the risk of developing CTE appears to be directly related to playing period and not to the 'level' played.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Les Tonks Sidestep

[Sports Prophet]

CET being raised at the start of the season.

Aus Institute of Sport has conducted its own study which concludes with recommendations in excess to current NRL protocols.

The NRL here are being criticised for not reviewing the recommendations and commenting on the report and outlining if their own investigations will be made or if they will or will not be proceeding with the recommendations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-04/concussion-rears-its-ugly-head-again-but-are-the-codes-ready/103542426

[RP London]

17 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

CET being raised at the start of the season.

Aus Institute of Sport has conducted its own study which concludes with recommendations in excess to current NRL protocols.

The NRL here are being criticised for not reviewing the recommendations and commenting on the report and outlining if their own investigations will be made or if they will or will not be proceeding with the recommendations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-04/concussion-rears-its-ugly-head-again-but-are-the-codes-ready/103542426

Its interesting becuase you cannot just ignore the science especially if the recommendations are in excess of what you have as that will leave you open to future law suits etc.. they will need to do their own studies that are peer reviewed etc that show that what they are doing is enough.. 

someone in the scientific community is going to make a fortune out of all the research that is going to be needed over the next 10 years or so to either prove or disprove or just go around in circles.

[Sports Prophet]

7 minutes ago, RP London said:

Its interesting becuase you cannot just ignore the science especially if the recommendations are in excess of what you have as that will leave you open to future law suits etc.. they will need to do their own studies that are peer reviewed etc that show that what they are doing is enough.. 

someone in the scientific community is going to make a fortune out of all the research that is going to be needed over the next 10 years or so to either prove or disprove or just go around in circles.

I am no surgeon, but what I haven’t heard of is a study into the potential onset of CET on the general public.

Now it may be so that in the short media articles I read about this subject, there is no discussion of the validation that CET is not just a random disease that comes with the onset of old age, it may well be assumed the reader will just take that for granted. However, I think it is important that we understand what the increased odds of getting CET are if you play various football codes. This can only happen with an unbiased review, similar to what was mentioned in the article that the majority of players currently donating their brain for study are the ones who suspect a problem, which may result in a bias.

Edited March 4, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

Furthermore, I still haven’t seen any statistics which demonstrate tackled players are more in danger of concussion than tacklers. Not that the new article I shared discusses suggestions of tackle heights.

[RP London]

On 04/03/2024 at 11:49, Sports Prophet said:

I am no surgeon, but what I haven’t heard of is a study into the potential onset of CET on the general public.

Now it may be so that in the short media articles I read about this subject, there is no discussion of the validation that CET is not just a random disease that comes with the onset of old age, it may well be assumed the reader will just take that for granted. However, I think it is important that we understand what the increased odds of getting CET are if you play various football codes. This can only happen with an unbiased review, similar to what was mentioned in the article that the majority of players currently donating their brain for study are the ones who suspect a problem, which may result in a bias.

totally agree with you on this. I haven't seen much around how prevalent it is in the general society or a study around those that do have it and what they have done (not just contact sport) in the rest of their lives etc. Only going by what I have read it does not appear to be a comment form of "dementia" (I dont know where it fits on that type of scale) outside of having some brain trauma but to be honest its more a case of "reading between the lines" rather than the fact I have seen that written anywhere. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

On 04/03/2024 at 11:41, RP London said:

Its interesting becuase you cannot just ignore the science especially if the recommendations are in excess of what you have as that will leave you open to future law suits etc.. they will need to do their own studies that are peer reviewed etc that show that what they are doing is enough.. 

someone in the scientific community is going to make a fortune out of all the research that is going to be needed over the next 10 years or so to either prove or disprove or just go around in circles.

And there's the rub: the players can demand whatever they like but their employers (the clubs and governing body) cannot wash their hands of their H&S responsibilities and have to act on the currently available scientific/medical advice and recommendations

[Sports Prophet]

Dale Finucane announces his immediate retirement whilst Wally Lewis calls on national government to fund $18m CTE research.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-23/dale-finucane-retirement-wally-lewis-cte-investment-plea/103758830

Edited April 23, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Former St Helens forward Josh Jones has said he is suffering from a serious brain condition.

The 31-year old former Great Britain second rower retired in 2023 due to concussion-related issues following his release by Huddersfield Giants.

Jones posted on X that he has been diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/articles/cz7e4p3wddeo

Edited July 31, 2024 by Les Tonks Sidestep

[sentoffagain2]

     That is terrible news at such a young age.Been some dreadful cases of NFL or ex NFL players causing harm to themselves and others due to CTE.

[The Blues Ox]

Terible news although its impossible to diagnose CTE without an autopsy. I think we will see more and more of these suspected cases though over the next few years and hopefully Josh Jones has the people around him to take care of him and help him out financially if needed.

I think there was a study in the NFL at some point that showed over 80% upwards of players had showed symptoms associated with CTE. One of the most high profile cases was obviously Aaron Hernandez whos autopsy showed one of the most servere cases of CTE people had seen. Another high profile case in another sport was that of wrestler Chris Benoit who also had servere CTE. It is hard to see with the way our game is played that we also dont have ridiculously high numbers of cases over the next decade or so.

[DoubleD]

It’s pertinent the number of ex players sons who are in SL club academies (JJB, Sinfield, Peacock, Pratt, Leuluai, Mason to name just a few). If there was a prevailing concern from ex players about the safety, you would think they would dissuade them 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

21 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

It’s pertinent the number of ex players sons who are in SL club academies (JJB, Sinfield, Peacock, Pratt, Leuluai, Mason to name just a few). If there was a prevailing concern from ex players about the safety, you would think they would dissuade them 

I suspect that at least in part due to a 'it won't happen to me' attitude and lack of education/understanding of the danger and actual consequences - see many examples of people undertaking other potentially dangerous to health activities outside (the) sport and some of the comments by ex and current players and coaches.

My wife was recently talking to a teenager who wants to be a professional fighter. His attitude was that it doesn't matter if he suffers because of fighting later in life as long as he can have a 'good time' and provide for his mother while he's young.

[DoubleD]

19 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I suspect that at least in part due to a 'it won't happen to me' attitude and lack of education/understanding of the danger and actual consequences - see many examples of people undertaking other potentially dangerous to health activities outside (the) sport and some of the comments by ex and current players and coaches.

My wife was recently talking to a teenager who wants to be a professional fighter. His attitude was that it doesn't matter if he suffers because of fighting later in life as long as he can have a 'good time' and provide for his mother while he's young.

It’s not about the youngsters who don’t know any better. It’s the parents who are well aware of the dangers and consequences of the sport and if they felt that the sport was too dangerous for their children, who they have a duty of care for, then you wouldn’t see such a take up amongst their children. 

I suspect that actually they’re comfortable with the changes the sport is making to reduce risk and improve safety 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

9 hours ago, DoubleD said:

It’s not about the youngsters who don’t know any better. It’s the parents who are well aware of the dangers and consequences of the sport and if they felt that the sport was too dangerous for their children, who they have a duty of care for, then you wouldn’t see such a take up amongst their children. 

I suspect that actually they’re comfortable with the changes the sport is making to reduce risk and improve safety 

I'm not sure the parents understand the risks either. 

[The Blues Ox]

As LTS says im not sure most parents have a good grasp on the risks and even if they did would they stop their kids playing? There are probably a number of us on here as parents who have a decent understandings of the risks but still allow our sons and daughters to play the game.

[Northern Eel]

7 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

As LTS says im not sure most parents have a good grasp on the risks and even if they did would they stop their kids playing? There are probably a number of us on here as parents who have a decent understandings of the risks but still allow our sons and daughters to play the game.

Yep, and I am one of those people. I like what the RFL are doing to promote understanding of the potential dangers, and whilst it is a shame that it is necessary, I am also comfortable with the changes being made to the rules. On that basis, I am happy for both of my kids to play the game.

On another note, I am finding at community club level that parents are really receptive to the 'if in doubt, sit them out' mantra, and the graduated return to play guidance, however much they might want their kids to be playing.

[RP London]

20 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

Yep, and I am one of those people. I like what the RFL are doing to promote understanding of the potential dangers, and whilst it is a shame that it is necessary, I am also comfortable with the changes being made to the rules. On that basis, I am happy for both of my kids to play the game.

On another note, I am finding at community club level that parents are really receptive to the 'if in doubt, sit them out' mantra, and the graduated return to play guidance, however much they might want their kids to be playing.

I totally agree with all of that.. 

[Damien]

 

 

[The Blues Ox]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

 

 

What a strange study. I just wonder how this can be taken as accurate, I mean anyone who played the game 30 or so years ago and got a bump on the head for the most part were told to just get up and get on with it by a bloke holding a sponge and some deep heat. I would go as far to say that it may appear that the community game was safer years back simply because there was no process to report injuries in comparison to the pro game.

[zorquif]

48 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

What a strange study. I just wonder how this can be taken as accurate, I mean anyone who played the game 30 or so years ago and got a bump on the head for the most part were told to just get up and get on with it by a bloke holding a sponge and some deep heat. I would go as far to say that it may appear that the community game was safer years back simply because there was no process to report injuries in comparison to the pro game.

Is it not just that two fat lads trundling into each other for a laugh on a Saturday afternoon isn't the same as two 16 st athletes running at full pelt and smashing into each other?

[The Blues Ox]

11 hours ago, zorquif said:

Is it not just that two fat lads trundling into each other for a laugh on a Saturday afternoon isn't the same as two 16 st athletes running at full pelt and smashing into each other?

The flip side of this could be what about all the players that are on the juice or other substances in the community game that potentially make it more dangerous for those who don't indulge?

[gingerjon]

14 hours ago, Damien said:

 

 

Not convinced by the idea of brain protection but, in terms of the headline finding (benefits outweigh risks), that seems perfectly plausible.

[Wakefield Ram]

Sometimes there's a case for applying common sense. 

The big change since 90s

- full-time players having multiple contact sessions for 40 odd weeks a year

- bigger faster players more subs

- "big hits" culture

- increase in offside line to 10m resulting in lots more one man running into a gang tackles

Each time there's an impact your soft jelly like brain is rattled around against the hard inside of your skull

That might happen to a full-time player many hundreds of times in a season and thousands over a career. The NFL has reduced contact sessions to once a week to reduce the numbers of times and they have a much shorter season. 

I read a study showing that concussions were more frequent at Academy and SL level than Championship but didn't recognise the blindingly obvious difference that Championship are part-time and not doing contact training 4-5 days a week. 

Does anyone seriously think that having your brain bashed against the inside of your skull thousands of times won't do any harm? 

Players like Lachlan Coote and Josh Jones are being diagnosed with brain damage - and that's what it is - at a very young age. 

Reducing contact sessions like the NFL would be a simple step. Pro boxers have annual brain scans. The RFL could have say 100 current players brains scanned. But I strongly suspect the reason they won't do it is they are scared of what would come out. 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

The flip side of this could be what about all the players that are on the juice or other substances in the community game that potentially make it more dangerous for those who don't indulge?

absolutely that would be a risk, for the 1 day or 2 days a year that you play them.. sure. But in the amateur game you arent training full contact all the time, you have maybe one session a week tops where there is full contact. Most of the time you are doing other drills. As Alex Popham said when this all started its the drip drip of training that he felt was the biggest issue, not the fundamental rules of the actual game, but the constant contact in training (and in union that includes ruck, maul and scrum training).