England vs Samoa Series

[Dunbar]

42 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

It’s a shame that Wardle is unfit, I’d have relished seeing that back line with Jake in for Newman.

All big blokes with real quality and speed right across the threequarter line, it could be the start of a new era.

With some special looking players coming through in the forwards like Havard, Nsemba, Pearce-Paul, Smithies allied to Williams, Smith and Lewis in the halves we could be looking at a high quality England team

Newman is still a decent option in the centre - but yes, Wardle and Farnworth in the centre is as good as we have had for a while.

Looking at the international squads that have been named this weekend, the England one stacks up really well.

[graveyard johnny]

things used to be so simple - turn up - join the queue for the turnstile for the part of the ground you want to view from - give the turnstile operator your cash - go in - watch the game - imagine something as easy as that these days - no doubt you will have to download an app to book a toilet cubicle for the exact time you may need a poo  in this day and age 

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

things used to be so simple - turn up - join the queue for the turnstile for the part of the ground you want to view from - give the turnstile operator your cash - go in - watch the game - imagine something as easy as that these days - no doubt you will have to download an app to book a toilet cubicle for the exact time you may need a poo  in this day and age 

Done correctly buying tickets on line and using your phone to get into a stadium is far easier than your old fashioned way, the key words are ‘done’ and ‘correctly’

[graveyard johnny]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Done correctly buying tickets on line and using your phone to get into a stadium is far easier than your old fashioned way, the key words are ‘done’ and ‘correctly’

how is it far easier than just going through a turnstile and handing over a note on your way through? what could be easier than that? even easier if people want to accompany you as tag alongs and decide to come to the game with you

[Chris22]

I have bought my ticket for the match at Wigan on Sunday and went to print it this afternoon. Because tickets are off sale, the option to print the tickets is now not available either. Not great.

More positively, I emailed the RFL who responded very promptly to tell me that I can access the tickets through my phone and will be allowed in. I sense I am going to end up having back and forth at the turnstiles on Sunday but let's see!

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, graveyard johnny said:

how is it far easier than just going through a turnstile and handing over a note on your way through? what could be easier than that? even easier if people want to accompany you as tag alongs and decide to come to the game with you

I can log in buy a ticket, don’t need to go to a cash machine , scan a code at the ground and go in.

thats easier in my opinion, I haven’t had any cash in my wallet for a couple of years to be honest.

 

[graveyard johnny]

13 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I can log in buy a ticket, don’t need to go to a cash machine , scan a code at the ground and go in.

thats easier in my opinion, I haven’t had any cash in my wallet for a couple of years to be honest.

 

what if someone decides they want to come with you on the day  or one of the kids mates wants to come? how does that work in the digital age? sorry but not with all the modern ways 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

NW is the last place I would put an England game in a SL ground. We know what happens.

England/GB games at Wigan:

2022 v PNG (23,179)

2015 v Kiwis (24,741)

2013 v France (22,276)

2009 v Aus (23,122)

2007 v Kiwis (21,235)

2005 v Aus (25,004)

2004 v Aus (25,004)

2003 v Aus (24,614)

2002 v Kiwis (22,247)

2001 v Aus (25,011)

 

All the evidence shows that Wigan is not the issue here.

[StandOffHalf]

18 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how is it far easier than just going through a turnstile and handing over a note on your way through? what could be easier than that? even easier if people want to accompany you as tag alongs and decide to come to the game with you

I'm with you.

As someone who uses cash and doesn't have a smartphone, I much prefer cash on the turnstile.

[Barley Mow]

30 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how is it far easier than just going through a turnstile and handing over a note on your way through? what could be easier than that? even easier if people want to accompany you as tag alongs and decide to come to the game with you

 

28 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I can log in buy a ticket, don’t need to go to a cash machine , scan a code at the ground and go in.

thats easier in my opinion, I haven’t had any cash in my wallet for a couple of years to be honest.

 

That's the thing with personal preferences, they differ from person to person.

[graveyard johnny]

so - when i was a kid - eg - having a kick around with the mates on a sat morn - said going to a game sat aft  with dad- eg gb  v nz - 2 of them got interested - dads got room in the car - they both turn up ready to set off clutching their cash given to them from their parents up the street - how does this work in the digital age now?

[Gooleboy]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

England/GB games at Wigan:

2022 v PNG (23,179)

2015 v Kiwis (24,741)

2013 v France (22,276)

2009 v Aus (23,122)

2007 v Kiwis (21,235)

2005 v Aus (25,004)

2004 v Aus (25,004)

2003 v Aus (24,614)

2002 v Kiwis (22,247)

2001 v Aus (25,011)

 

All the evidence shows that Wigan is not the issue here.

Should be at least 20k then.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Should be at least 20k then.

I think that should have been the aspiration here. 

[Odsal Outlaw]

9 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

so - when i was a kid - eg - having a kick around with the mates on a sat morn - said going to a game sat aft  with dad- eg gb  v nz - 2 of them got interested - dads got room in the car - they both turn up ready to set off clutching their cash given to them from their parents up the street - how does this work in the digital age now?

And what do you do if you get there and it’s sold out? It’s 2024, simple access via mobile is far and away the easiest if done properly - and I think the most common way for what should be the new audience we are targeting for internationals. But it has to be done right … go to the site, pick your seat, pay with your phone, add tickets to your digital wallet.

[Gav Wilson]

11 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

so - when i was a kid - eg - having a kick around with the mates on a sat morn - said going to a game sat aft  with dad- eg gb  v nz - 2 of them got interested - dads got room in the car - they both turn up ready to set off clutching their cash given to them from their parents up the street - how does this work in the digital age now?

It doesn't, not least from a crowd safety point of view.

It's 2024, we no longer live in a Hovis advert.

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

so - when i was a kid - eg - having a kick around with the mates on a sat morn - said going to a game sat aft  with dad- eg gb  v nz - 2 of them got interested - dads got room in the car - they both turn up ready to set off clutching their cash given to them from their parents up the street - how does this work in the digital age now?

Has your character changed its age again?

[graveyard johnny]

7 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

It doesn't, not least from a crowd safety point of view.

It's 2024, we no longer live in a Hovis advert.

no we live in a vodafone advert  and 2 thirds empty grounds are safer than full ones - yer get that 

[Archie Gordon]

52 minutes ago, Dave T said:

England/GB games at Wigan:

2022 v PNG (23,179)

2015 v Kiwis (24,741)

2013 v France (22,276)

2009 v Aus (23,122)

2007 v Kiwis (21,235)

2005 v Aus (25,004)

2004 v Aus (25,004)

2003 v Aus (24,614)

2002 v Kiwis (22,247)

2001 v Aus (25,011)

 

All the evidence shows that Wigan is not the issue here.

I would bet almost all of those are part of an event where proper stadiums were used. Or were Ashes series.

Wigan, Warrington, Saints, etc. just cannot get a crowd for an England game unless they are part of something much bigger. They signify small time. They certainly shouldn't lead off a series.

Anyway, we'll get to see on Sunday.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I would bet almost all of those are part of an event where proper stadiums were used. Or were Ashes series.

Wigan, Warrington, Saints, etc. just cannot get a crowd for an England game unless they are part of something much bigger. They signify small time. They certainly shouldn't lead off a series.

Anyway, we'll get to see on Sunday.

I think the game being on a Sunday may be part of the problem.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I would bet almost all of those are part of an event where proper stadiums were used. Or were Ashes series.

Wigan, Warrington, Saints, etc. just cannot get a crowd for an England game unless they are part of something much bigger. They signify small time. They certainly shouldn't lead off a series.

Anyway, we'll get to see on Sunday.

So which grounds deliver good crowds for random England internationals?

Because it feels even when evidence is presented it's just dismissed.

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I think the game being on a Sunday may be part of the problem.

Yeah, not sure why Sunday is being used. It isn't a good day for international RL and sees us pushed to BBC Two as well.

[Archie Gordon]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So which grounds deliver good crowds for random England internationals?

Because it feels even when evidence is presented it's just dismissed.

I think one issue is that all England games are random.

But two things. First, staging the opener at a bigger, premium ground almost always pays off. Why are we so timid? Second, even the organisers had limited faith in Wigan - keeping whole stands closed to begin with was crazy and signalled that the target was never 20k. Free tickets for members underlined that. So why choose Wigan? Why choose a NW SL ground? 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think one issue is that all England games are random.

But two things. First, staging the opener at a bigger, premium ground almost always pays off. Why are we so timid? Second, even the organisers had limited faith in Wigan - keeping whole stands closed to begin with was crazy and signalled that the target was never 20k. Free tickets for members underlined that. So why choose Wigan? Why choose a NW SL ground? 

So which grounds exactly? Because let's not go down the route of suggesting Wembley for this match.

The point on a stand being closed is just wrong. We do that all the time - it's a horrible, horrible strategy, but we always do this. We did it in London where we start with around 20k tickets on sale and end up with 35-44k at Olympic Stadium.

So why choose Wigan? Because it has been one of the consistent best grounds for staging England/GB games over the years.

Wigan just isn't that controversial a choice (unlike St Helens last year where I think your post would be absolutely accurate). The poor performance here is absolutely on the RFL, and the Samoans who undermined it in the first place.

With this performance had we gone to London we'd likely have delivered a 13k at Watford or 15k at QPR type event like we did in the past (against stronger, more popular opposition - the Kiwis).

Edited October 25, 2024 by Dave T

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

So which grounds exactly? Because let's not go down the route of suggesting Wembley for this match.

The point on a stand being closed is just wrong. We do that all the time - it's a horrible, horrible strategy, but we always do this. We did it in London where we start with around 20k tickets on sale and end up with 35-44k at Olympic Stadium.

So why choose Wigan? Because it has been one of the consistent best grounds for staging England/GB games over the years.

Wigan just isn't that controversial a choice (unlike St Helens last year where I think your post would be absolutely accurate). The poor performance here is absolutely on the RFL, and the Samoans who undermined it in the first place.

With this performance had we gone to London we'd likely have delivered a 13k at Watford or 15k at QPR type event like we did in the past.

I absolutely think we should have tried for one of Newcastle or Emirates as the first Test. It helps the narrative. We certainly wouldn't have got 40k but we might have hit 30k - which might be about our aggregate for Wigan and Leeds.

I also think 13k in a smaller London stadium would be more helpful than the same at Wigan. If England RL are going to play so many games along the M62, and in the NW in particular, the brand is going to shrink. We're seeing it play out. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I absolutely think we should have tried for one of Newcastle or Emirates as the first Test. It helps the narrative. We certainly wouldn't have got 40k but we might have hit 30k - which might be about our aggregate for Wigan and Leeds.

I also think 13k in a smaller London stadium would be more helpful than the same at Wigan. If England RL are going to play so many games along the M62, and in the NW in particular, the brand is going to shrink. We're seeing it play out. 

I like Newcastle and I'd certainly attend (I'm not going to Wigan) but I'm not convinced that the ground is quite right for this match.

I don't agree 13k in London is any better than what we'll see this weekend.

I understand people being disappointed by maybe a lack of glamour and ambition, I share that frustration somewhat, but England have done well in London in the biggest of Test matches. I'm afraid this ain't that.

I think 20k in Wigan and 20k in Leeds is a perfectly successful series when considering the history of international RL, but it looks like terrible performance by the RFL is unlikely to deliver that.