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2024 attendance thread


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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I suppose the problem with "appropriate setup" is that logically that would mean filling the TV arc first, and many fans want to choose where they sit. 

Its a difficult sweet spot to hit, as you can end up just downsizing and downsizing and the event just keeps getting smaller. 

When a game is expected to attract 9k, an 18k ground is too big imo. It's easy to list grounds without knowing availibility, but a Semi Final with Hudds involved is always a hard sell. Salford, Widnes, dare I say Leigh! 

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Let's not forget while harping on about the past and the great crowds it had what kind of world we lived in too...

Most people worked Monday to Friday, Rugby was played at 3pm on Sundays, no moving for TV then.

There were 3/4 tv channels so not the choice we have today.

There were no shops open on Sundays, no shopping centres etc and shopping wasn't a pastime back then either it was something that was done as a neccessity and usually once a week.

There wasn't such things as computers or gaming, unless you were rich or one of the lucky few to have an atari/commodore/spectrum etc, even now grown adults who probably would have gone to rugby 30/40 years ago now choose to spend their time screaming at a screen with their headsets on playing a video game.

In summary there was less to do and less to spend your money on and rugby was a cheap, accessible pastime that was highly entertaining.

These days there is much more competition for people's time and money than in 1990 for example.

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26 minutes ago, Mr Hicks said:

Rugby league is dying. 

I remember going to Central Park as a neutral to watch Wigan v Widnes midweek in the 90s in a league winner decider. Full house and thousands locked out.

What sort of crowd figure would that match attract these days.

 

1990/91. The average top flight crowd was 6,420. If it's dying now what was happening back then?

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27 minutes ago, Mr Hicks said:

Rugby league is dying. 

I remember going to Central Park as a neutral to watch Wigan v Widnes midweek in the 90s in a league winner decider. Full house and thousands locked out.

What sort of crowd figure would that match attract these days.

 

Oh and in response to the question as to what sort of crowd the title decider gets nowadays, it's held at Old Trafford in early October every year and does ok compared to your 29k at Pie Park.

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

When a game is expected to attract 9k, an 18k ground is too big imo. It's easy to list grounds without knowing availibility, but a Semi Final with Hudds involved is always a hard sell. Salford, Widnes, dare I say Leigh! 

Problem is when were in the semi final, there isn't really a ground close enough to be classed as 'halfway' if we get a Lancashire team, and the ones this side would be deemed too close for us, i've never seen us in a semi final against a non Yorkshire team anywhere other than Warrington/Saints or Salford.

Those grounds are a lot further for our already low fanbase to tempt them to go but are handy for the Lancs teams to take loads and make it look ok-ish on TV.

While in Yorkshire we've played at Odsal and Elland road, not exactly the smallest or prettiest venues either.

Oldham at Boundary park or Rochdale would be better choices for a Yorkshire/Lancashire tie involving us.

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5 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Problem is when were in the semi final, there isn't really a ground close enough to be classed as 'halfway' if we get a Lancashire team, and the ones this side would be deemed too close for us, i've never seen us in a semi final against a non Yorkshire team anywhere other than Warrington/Saints or Salford.

Those grounds are a lot further for our already low fanbase to tempt them to go but are handy for the Lancs teams to take loads and make it look ok-ish on TV.

While in Yorkshire we've played at Odsal and Elland road, not exactly the smallest or prettiest venues either.

Oldham at Boundary park or Rochdale would be better choices for a Yorkshire/Lancashire tie involving us.

Agreed. Stadium choice is challenging, and West Yorkshire doesn't have a great selection of smaller grounds to use. The Manchester region grounds mentioned seem better. 

But if we are going with a NW ground, picking the biggest of the Rugby grounds is a misstep imo. 

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Just now, Tre Cool said:

Was the final always this close in date to the semis?  Seems to me people will struggle for two big away weekends so close together and will pick the final.

The Semis are not really big weekends. People aren't getting hotels etc. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Agreed. Stadium choice is challenging, and West Yorkshire doesn't have a great selection of smaller grounds to use. The Manchester region grounds mentioned seem better. 

 

Using Headingley with the South Stand closed gives you a 12k stadium. But then some folk will end up getting sunburnt on the Western Terrace.

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1 minute ago, M j M said:

Using Headingley with the South Stand closed gives you a 12k stadium. But then some folk will end up getting sunburnt on the Western Terrace.

I do also like Hudds as a ground that can be used in a modular way (obviously not for the Hudds game). 

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23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The Semis are not really big weekends. People aren't getting hotels etc. 

I dunno, personally, with a family and a mortgage i'm not paying out for tickets and travel to a semi and a final in the space of three weeks.

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

When a game is expected to attract 9k, an 18k ground is too big imo. It's easy to list grounds without knowing availibility, but a Semi Final with Hudds involved is always a hard sell. Salford, Widnes, dare I say Leigh! 

I agree, its just a difficult one I guess given the numbers and the facilities available.

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40 minutes ago, M j M said:

1990/91. The average top flight crowd was 6,420. If it's dying now what was happening back then?

70’s to recent times saw crowds fluctuate massively at most clubs as season tickets were not the must get for fans. The extras were drawn to BIG games like derbies or Challenge Cups etc my club when winning the league went from 3500 to 12000 Gates’ as an example. Both clubs will take 25000 to the final

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Wigan got good crowds that year (1991), but most weeks their crowds looked just like they do now. Their lowest league game that year was 7.5k versus Fev. 

The fixture away at Widnes got 7.4k. 

Crowds are different now, but they weren't amazing every week back then. 

And if I look at my club, Wire, they have doubled crowds since that season. 

The big games did get huge crowds but I certainly remember watching mid week games to small crowds too. I remember some of the rose tinted cup games getting small crowds too outside of the glamour match ups and semi finals.

The likes of Warrington, Hull KR and Leigh are completely transformed in terms of the crowds they get.

Edited by Damien
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On 13/05/2024 at 19:38, Eddie said:

8.5k at Wire is terrible for them, even on a Thursday night, the buzz around the club a few years back seems a long time ago now. 

Absolutely really poor for a town with over 210,000 inhabitants.

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On 13/05/2024 at 20:02, wasginger said:

Aren't SL clubs told not to rely on visiting fans, but build their own support ?

Well this makes the IMG 'Catchment' points stupid, perhaps a club should have points deducted on a sliding scale for attendances under 10% of their catchment area points, what is the point of awarding 'Topline' scores when clubs under acheive so much it is just giving points for the sake of it. GIve them penalties for it, and if they are under 5% of catchment area/attendances no points at all.

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13 hours ago, Dave T said:

To go back on this point. Utilisation is part of the grading for SL. They acknowledge that making grounds look full is important. Yet they choose an 18k ground for a game like this.

Thats incompetence. 

It"s still just 'Flower Arranging' Dave, a skilled florist can make a vase seem a lot fuller than a complete novice with the same number of Flowers.

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11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It"s still just 'Flower Arranging' Dave, a skilled florist can make a vase seem a lot fuller than a complete novice with the same number of Flowers.

It's what we need. 

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15 hours ago, dboy said:

 

BB said that nowhere is a rugby town under any metric - under any way of measuring it.

And I've since clarified that there may be the odd metric that may prove RL is biggest (like which is the most popular oval shaped ball game etc) 

You haven't acknowledged this or accepted the fact that football overall is more popular in Cas than RL 

Therefore you haven't accepted the fact that Cas is more a football town than a RL one ... Even though it is a town where RL is popular 

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15 hours ago, dboy said:

But that wasn't the point I made, was it.

BB said that nowhere is a rugby town under any metric - under any way of measuring it.

I pointed out how that is not true - it depends on the metric.

I even point myself that Thornes Juniors (soccer), probably have more teams playing age group than the whole of the RL teams in the City.

 

So places can be rugby towns if you ignore all the important metrics that say they aren't...

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

When a game is expected to attract 9k, an 18k ground is too big imo. It's easy to list grounds without knowing availibility, but a Semi Final with Hudds involved is always a hard sell. Salford, Widnes, dare I say Leigh! 

LSV would probably have been a consideration for the Wire/Hudds game were it not for the fact the entire pitch was ripped out immediately following the Salford game. It's going through a full renovation this year rather than the usual yearly reseed, meaning they are replacing the synthetic grass altogether. 

Pitch Renovation at The Leopard's Den – Leigh Leopards

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4 hours ago, daz39 said:

Problem is when were in the semi final, there isn't really a ground close enough to be classed as 'halfway' if we get a Lancashire team, and the ones this side would be deemed too close for us, i've never seen us in a semi final against a non Yorkshire team anywhere other than Warrington/Saints or Salford.

Those grounds are a lot further for our already low fanbase to tempt them to go but are handy for the Lancs teams to take loads and make it look ok-ish on TV.

While in Yorkshire we've played at Odsal and Elland road, not exactly the smallest or prettiest venues either.

Oldham at Boundary park or Rochdale would be better choices for a Yorkshire/Lancashire tie involving us.

Come on pal, I've stayed away from criticising the Giants attendance yesterday because those who came along shouldn't be criticised for those who didn't and I do think St Helens clearly favoured the Warrington fans.

Salford would have been absolutely fine though and even St Helens wasn't a difficult trip. I travelled yesterday from Elland and picked up my mate from the Trafford Centre (right by the Salford ground) and it was 35-40 mins tops. Not a tough trip, just not enough people who want to make it.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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5 hours ago, daz39 said:

Problem is when were in the semi final, there isn't really a ground close enough to be classed as 'halfway' if we get a Lancashire team, and the ones this side would be deemed too close for us, i've never seen us in a semi final against a non Yorkshire team anywhere other than Warrington/Saints or Salford.

Those grounds are a lot further for our already low fanbase to tempt them to go but are handy for the Lancs teams to take loads and make it look ok-ish on TV.

While in Yorkshire we've played at Odsal and Elland road, not exactly the smallest or prettiest venues either.

Oldham at Boundary park or Rochdale would be better choices for a Yorkshire/Lancashire tie involving us.

This all sounds a bit lame. Huddersfield is probably the most handily situated town for a trip across the Pennines.

Huddersfield to somewhere like Salford is 33 miles, it is actually closer and faster by car than Doncaster would be.

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