IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[Archie Gordon]

17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The gradings reward showmanship and making the game a spectacle in order to draw people in. Leigh have done that, whilst also being competitive on the field.

I wish Degsy would shut up about his legal actions because his club are a model for others in many ways.

Yes and yes.

[Toby Chopra]

Very commendable from Leigh to publish in such detail and the figures are a testament to the hard work and investment from all involved. If this level of performance across all the factors is sustainable then we now have another strong SL club - which is what many of us have argued is the most important goal for the sport.

I wish DB hadn't accompanied the release with the rather Trumpian statement of certainty:

"...the worst-case scenario still delivers us as a grade A club that simply cannot be contested"

Given his current outbursts, it does seem to set him up for a descent into conspiracy theory if Leigh ends up at 14.9 rather than 15.1 - even though it makes no difference at all to the club's status. 

But then I suppose Derek being Derek is part of the reason the club is where it is now, so we have to enjoy it all!

[Worzel]

10 hours ago, Dave T said:

Well it isn't confirmed, it's basically what they are submitting. But they should know what's going in.

And tbh, without going into the detail, the last couple of years have looked like what we should want from our top clubs. Competitive on the field, noisy off the field, good facilities, good crowd - if the finances stack up, then I don't see how anyone can complain about them being graded an A club.

Ditto. I’m not what more we can realistically expect from a rugby league team than Leigh in the last 3 years. 

[The Blues Ox]

Further highlighting problems with the gradings. Leigh a team whom everything about them says they either should be an A team or very close, forward thinking club, really good team on the pitch as well. But then if Cas do end up getting an A as well like they were sounding off about then how can the two clubs even be close to each other? There is literally night and day between the two clubs.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Further highlighting problems with the gradings. Leigh a team whom everything about them says they either should be an A team or very close, forward thinking club, really good team on the pitch as well. But then if Cas do end up getting an A as well like they were sounding off about then how can the two clubs even be close to each other? There is literally night and day between the two clubs.

Sort of. I'm not sure why people are so negative to Castkeford. Who have had pretty good crowds for a sustained period of time. 

I'm afraid people are over-emphasising the stadium point, just like they did in Licensing. 

I don't think Cas will rank as highly as Leigh, but I disagree that the clubs are night and day.

[Archie Gordon]

13 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Further highlighting problems with the gradings. Leigh a team whom everything about them says they either should be an A team or very close, forward thinking club, really good team on the pitch as well. But then if Cas do end up getting an A as well like they were sounding off about then how can the two clubs even be close to each other? There is literally night and day between the two clubs.

I often agree with you on these kinds of topics but I'm not sure why Leigh and Cas wouldn't get similar scores. Cas will likely do better on fandom, they own their stadium, have a money man, never really threatened with relegation (recently), and so on. 

I wouldn't have either as an A but they are both solid SL clubs IMO. I'd bracket them together, even if they have slightly different strengths.

[Toby Chopra]

23 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Further highlighting problems with the gradings. Leigh a team whom everything about them says they either should be an A team or very close, forward thinking club, really good team on the pitch as well. But then if Cas do end up getting an A as well like they were sounding off about then how can the two clubs even be close to each other? There is literally night and day between the two clubs.

I don't think this analysis is right. Cas have had good crowds for years, even when the results have fallen off somewhat, they own their own stadium, and have invested substantial sums in equipping it with the things that make it fit for the modern media and commercial age. (I know many don't understand why this should matter, but we've done that debate to death elsewhere).

I expect them to get a lower score than Leigh - and if they continue to underperforming on and off the field over the next few years that gap will no doubt widen.

But as of today, they're clearly one of the top 10 clubs in the country and definitely worth their place in SL as it stands.

[binosh]

It’s seems to be getting a positive response by the Rugby League press so it’s probably doing as intended.

 

[bobbruce]

32 minutes ago, binosh said:

It’s seems to be getting a positive response by the Rugby League press so it’s probably doing as intended.

 

That doesn’t make any sense only a few clubs were grade A initially. If 12 clubs are grade A now surely that’s IMGs process working. 

[binosh]

2 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

That doesn’t make any sense only a few clubs were grade A initially. If 12 clubs are grade A now surely that’s IMGs process working. 

Get what you’re saying, IMG really have split the RL opinions 

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

That doesn’t make any sense only a few clubs were grade A initially. If 12 clubs are grade A now surely that’s IMGs process working. 

It's a ridiculous premise isn't it, just ignores that clubs have actually made efforts to ensure they are Grade A, which is literally the point of IMG's involvement.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

That doesn’t make any sense only a few clubs were grade A initially. If 12 clubs are grade A now surely that’s IMGs process working. 

It's his standard position, be nego.

[Archie Gordon]

If we now have 10 or so grade As, straight over to IMG to sort us a pay rise from Sky and BBC. They now have the tools they didn't have a year ago.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

I wouldn't have either as an A but they are both solid SL clubs

Having been a supporter of The Leigh Club for a very long time Archie, I have stated previously where I believe the club to be in the all time order of merit which in my reckoning is somewhere between 14th and 11th, so it maybe that if these scores are correct and the club receives an A Grade effectively they will be - if other clubs just maintain their 'indicative' scores - 7th Hull FC were 15.05, Hull KR were 15.52.

BUT, let's go in real time of the last 3 years not my all time theory, I do believe that the Leigh Club is deserving of a Grade A, they have not got the history to call on as the Wigan's, Leeds, Saint's etc have but we are not taking into account historical values in the Grading Criteria scoring, they are based on the here and now.

So why Archie would not have Leigh or even Cas as 'A' Grades if they acheive the required 15 points?

 But irrespective, if we are still going forward with this system then I will take it that my club is graded up there in the 'A' category, but I still think this system will do more harm than good to the structure of the game and especially so if we move to a closed shop SL, there needs to be the window of opportunity for clubs in Championship to better themselves on the field of play by way of promotion - we still have it from L1 to the Championship - closing the door will be a guaranteed why of taking the desire and ambition away from Championship clubs and their fans, this is not a theory of mine it is from expierience of being there when we last operated a 'lockout', it won't work.

[Archie Gordon]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

...

So why Archie would not have Leigh or even Cas as 'A' Grades if they acheive the required 15 points?

 ...

That's not the point I was making. I think 15 is too low a bar, particularly when every club is given 1.5 pts.

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

That doesn’t make any sense only a few clubs were grade A initially. If 12 clubs are grade A now surely that’s IMGs process working. 

Or the bar as been set to low.

Just what is this IMG process other than a scoring system on individual points by a company who may have some expertise and acheived results in other sports. Will IMG have (1) used the same template that they have utilised in other sports with a little tweak here and there or (2) have IMG spent a couple of years prior looking at the intricacies and workings of Rugby League in this Country and designed a bespoke tailor fitted system around that?

I would strongly suggest it is option 1.

Which is logical, at the outset the prediction of many was that there would be 4 clubs who would reach 'A' status in the indicative scoring but we got 7, as you say if 12 clubs are now 12 months later 'A' grades then to me the achievable scoring is just to easy to reach.

 

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

If we now have 10 or so grade As, straight over to IMG to sort us a pay rise from Sky and BBC. They now have the tools they didn't have a year ago.

They are only IMG's tools though Archie, which can be torn apart if they are brought up in negotiations, they mean nothing really.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Worzel said:

Ditto. I’m not what more we can realistically expect from a rugby league team than Leigh in the last 3 years. 

In a word, "class".  The coach has it, the players have it, but not everyone else has it.

[LeytherRob]

13 hours ago, Dave T said:

Well it isn't confirmed, it's basically what they are submitting. But they should know what's going in.

And tbh, without going into the detail, the last couple of years have looked like what we should want from our top clubs. Competitive on the field, noisy off the field, good facilities, good crowd - if the finances stack up, then I don't see how anyone can complain about them being graded an A club.

The finances are one of the sections that are confirmed as these were submitted earlier in the season at the end of the financial year, which have been accepted by the RFL. The league placings are a straightforward calculation as is the stadium and catchment. I think the only section subject to change is the fandom for social media numbers and attendances.

[dkw]

So wait, now it's too easy to get an A, mere months after we were told by certain naysayers that only 3 or 4 clubs would get an A because it's rigged towards the big clubs? It's just all too confusing.

[Griff]

46 minutes ago, dkw said:

So wait, now it's too easy to get an A, mere months after we were told by certain naysayers that only 3 or 4 clubs would get an A because it's rigged towards the big clubs? It's just all too confusing.

Some points are quite easy to get.  For example, you can get LED advertising boards round the ground in a few days, provided you're prepared to pay the money.

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

So wait, now it's too easy to get an A, mere months after we were told by certain naysayers that only 3 or 4 clubs would get an A because it's rigged towards the big clubs? It's just all too confusing.

Go back to p. 1 of this thread and you'll find 7 clubs given indicative grade As. You're saying that - in the meantime - there are posters saying we'll only get 3 or 4 As this October? I would be surprised but happy to be shown I'm wrong.

[The Blues Ox]

Maybe I were a tad harsh on Cas but I have nothing against them and like them as a club its just if I were a neutral at this point I would pick Leigh by some margin if I had to pick one of those two teams to support. Maybe that is because what Leigh have done is there for everyone to see and they have improved the value of their brand a lot over the past couple of years where as Cas a lot of their things seem to be behind the scenes and they is nothing wrong with that if what they are doing is helping them going forward. For me the A grade really needs to be your bench mark clubs and I don't honestly see Cas as that just yet but maybe just my bias of over valuing things on the pitch.

[Hopie]

4 hours ago, bobbruce said:

That doesn’t make any sense only a few clubs were grade A initially. If 12 clubs are grade A now surely that’s IMGs process working. 

... or the bar to reach grade A/the way the scores are calculated isn't doing what people expected. 

If the grading scores are to encourage long term growth and aspiration they will fail unless the are changed. If clubs could "fix" themselves up in a year that shows that there was no need to properly change things as they all already had what they needed, or it shows the grading scores aren't doing enough to show the differences between great, good, ok, and poor performance.

If the grading scores are meant to reward incumbency then they are a spectacular success.

[binosh]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

In a word, "class".  The coach has it, the players have it, but not everyone else has it.

Say you hate Derek and stop faffing about it’s tedious,, then we can all move on