IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[JohnM]

2 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Add in maintenance costs, replacement costs, as they won't last forver....so say 10 clubs get A grade that means IMG have to guarantee £3 million in additional revenue for the clubs and given its some form of profit share then maybe that's £4-5m million extra advertising revenue IMG will need to generate to benefit the clubs. 

The clubs bear the cost of installation and maintenance and hopefully these costs will be fully covered before IMG get any share of extra "new" advertising revenue. 

Does the grading system mandate the purchase or are there other ways in financing them? 

[Wakefield Ram]

15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Does the grading system mandate the purchase or are there other ways in financing them? 

There may be ways to finance them but it's still a sunk cost for Championship clubs with zero revenue. Basically asking them to stump up a big cost with no certainty of any return. 

Edited September 22 by Wakefield Ram

[JohnM]

32 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

There may be ways to finance them but it's still a sunk cost for Championship clubs with zero revenue. Basically asking them to stump up a big cost with no certainty of any return. 

Do you know if Championship clubs are required to have them?

Edited September 22 by JohnM

[binosh]

So what happens when we get 13/14 grade A clubs, will the central funding need to be further split down or are IMG going to use it as a bargaining tool to get a better TV deal? Has this been planned for? I can see us getting to 13 teams sooner than initially expected so I’m hoping IMG are prepared otherwise it is going to be disastrous. Does anybody know? Can any RL reporter on here ask the RFL/IMG?

Edited September 22 by binosh

[Wakefield Ram]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Do you know if Championship clubs are required to have them?

Well if you don't that more points you won't get. 

[The Blues Ox]

30 minutes ago, binosh said:

So what happens when we get 13/14 grade A clubs, will the central funding need to be further split down or are IMG going to use it as a bargaining tool to get a better TV deal? Has this been planned for? I can see us getting to 13 teams sooner than initially expected so I’m hoping IMG are prepared otherwise it is going to be disastrous. Does anybody know? Can any RL reporter on here ask the RFL/IMG?

We won't get 13 Grade A clubs. The grading criteria is stacked in a way making it near impossible for a Championship team to acquire over 15 points. 

[binosh]

1 minute ago, The Blues Ox said:

We won't get 13 Grade A clubs. The grading criteria is stacked in a way making it near impossible for a Championship team to acquire over 15 points. 

Toulouse, Bradford, Leigh, Castleford and Wakefield all think they are close.

[JohnM]

37 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Well if you don't that more points you won't get. 

So it's a choice. Be a forward looking, well run club with realistic  ambitions and a willingness to implement the things that successful clubs have done, and  with a committed owner who loves the club and wants it to succeed....or not. 

[sentoffagain2]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

We won't get 13 Grade A clubs. The grading criteria is stacked in a way making it near impossible for a Championship team to acquire over 15 points. 

  If a Championship team get the required 15 points the SL club or clubs in danger will find .25 or.50 of a point under the sofa.Just to keep their noses in front.

[Wakefield Ram]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

So it's a choice. Be a forward looking, well run club with realistic  ambitions and a willingness to implement the things that successful clubs have done, and  with a committed owner who loves the club and wants it to succeed....or not. 

So a club should spend £300,000 with no return based on the possibility of you might be promoted? It's not willingness it's the financial outlay. That's not investment, that's speculation. The exact opposite of what well-run clubs should do.

Edited September 22 by Wakefield Ram

[Griff]

20 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

So a club should spend £300,000 with no return based on the possibility of you might be promoted? It's not willingness it's the financial outlay. That's not investment, that's speculation. The exact opposite of what well-run clubs should do.

It might not be worthwhile if you're 31st in the pecking order.

But it might be well worth considering if you're 13th.  Or even 14th or 15th.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

So it's a choice. Be a forward looking, well run club with realistic  ambitions and a willingness to implement the things that successful clubs have done, and  with a committed owner who loves the club and wants it to succeed....or not. 

That sounds just like Leigh and its charismatic owner.

[Tommygilf]

36 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  If a Championship team get the required 15 points the SL club or clubs in danger will find .25 or.50 of a point under the sofa.Just to keep their noses in front.

How? By making some aspect of their club better?

[Archie Gordon]

4 hours ago, binosh said:

So what happens when we get 13/14 grade A clubs, will the central funding need to be further split down or are IMG going to use it as a bargaining tool to get a better TV deal? Has this been planned for? I can see us getting to 13 teams sooner than initially expected so I’m hoping IMG are prepared otherwise it is going to be disastrous. Does anybody know? Can any RL reporter on here ask the RFL/IMG?

I think Blues Ox is right that it won't happen. But if it did happen, SL immediately expands.

[Wakefield Ram]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

That sounds just like Leigh and its charismatic owner.

Just find a multi-millionaire then you can become a forward looking club. 

[binosh]

7 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think Blues Ox is right that it won't happen. But if it did happen, SL immediately expands.

That’s my question, if it expands is the TV money diluted upsetting the SL clubs or does IMG earn their wages and negotiate more central funding?

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, binosh said:

That’s my question, if it expands is the TV money diluted upsetting the SL clubs or does IMG earn their wages and negotiate more central funding?

Presumably, the former. But I agree with the thrust of your question, it's not obvious.

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Just find a multi-millionaire then you can become a forward looking club. 

That's the trick.

[sweaty craiq]

£500k less central funding is 1700 new  fans or 10-30% increase in ticket price or board philanthropy or a mix of the above. A decent sponsorship would help also

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Just to clarify:

IMG are clear that on reaching 13 grade As, SL expands. There is no mention of reaching 13 grade As and then adjusting the grading to make it tougher to achieve an A. But this myth is becoming popular ...

IMG are clear that grade A guarantees a SL spot. It is not simply the top 12 that make SL. But this myth is becoming popular ...

Some of us see obvious practical difficulties here and would like a formal clarification. Another set of posters prefers to regard IMG as not really meaning what they say but it'll be alright on the night. I'm not sure why the latter group wouldn't also be happier with a formal clarification.

Everybody is picking and choose how they interpret things - some are choosing to disbelieve that they value women and London and France despite them.saying that it will be an important part of the 12 year strategy.

On whether they change things in future, there is zero reason to believe they won't. I'd be surprised if inflation isn't considered in financial metrics for example - in 10 years it'd be poor if the turnovers are measured the same, and similarly, if you build viewers and crowds to the point that 150k and 7.5k are irrelevant numbers then it would be nonsensical not to revisit your bands at the very minimum.

[Dave T]

55 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Just find a multi-millionaire then you can become a forward looking club. 

How's that worked for London? How did it work for Salford under Koukash?

[Dave T]

59 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think Blues Ox is right that it won't happen. But if it did happen, SL immediately expands.

SL isnt immediately guaranteed to expand. The way it is illustrated it is presented nicely that we maybe get 8 grade A's, then 10, then 12, then expand your accommodate further grade A's when they emerge.

However it doesn't acknowledge what happens if you get 10 one year, then 12, but then drop back to 10, then 11, then 9 etc. The situation you describe doesn't automatically work. The only thing that suggests your approach is the commitment that A grades are in SL, but then it's already been discredited by the claim it's a permanent position which means nowt, and also Rhodri Jones basically softening it to say they'd consider it.

[Archie Gordon]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Everybody is picking and choose how they interpret things - some are choosing to disbelieve that they value women and London and France despite them.saying that it will be an important part of the 12 year strategy.

On whether they change things in future, there is zero reason to believe they won't. I'd be surprised if inflation isn't considered in financial metrics for example - in 10 years it'd be poor if the turnovers are measured the same, and similarly, if you build viewers and crowds to the point that 150k and 7.5k are irrelevant numbers then it would be nonsensical not to revisit your bands at the very minimum.

Some things are down to what folk believe, yes. Do I believe IMG that the women's game is a priority for them? No. Other things are black and white - like the grading criteria. I know what an average attendance of 5k gets you.

On the latter paragraph, we already know that the gradings criteria change - mainly tweaking so far. Tweaking - and indeed the indexing you refer to - will likely be part of this. Making it qualitatively harder so that fewer clubs achieve A is a wholly different thing and there's no evidence of it being planned.

Edited September 22 by Archie Gordon
Adding some examples.

[Archie Gordon]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

SL isnt immediately guaranteed to expand. The way it is illustrated it is presented nicely that we maybe get 8 grade A's, then 10, then 12, then expand your accommodate further grade A's when they emerge.

However it doesn't acknowledge what happens if you get 10 one year, then 12, but then drop back to 10, then 11, then 9 etc. The situation you describe doesn't automatically work. The only thing that suggests your approach is the commitment that A grades are in SL, but then it's already been discredited by the claim it's a permanent position which means nowt, and also Rhodri Jones basically softening it to say they'd consider it.

I think this reinforces what a mess it is. If grade A guarantees you a SL spot and you have 13 grade As, you can do nothing other than immediately expand. Rhodri Jones in an interview just gave away that he hadn't thought much about it. The handbook hasn't changed.

It's unlikely to ever happen but the handbook is clear.

[LeeF]

5 hours ago, binosh said:

Toulouse, Bradford, Leigh, Castleford and Wakefield all think they are close.

3 of whom are currently Championship clubs