Harry Stottle Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: I never understand being set up for disappointment. I got used to that supporting the team I do in a Rugby League sense, my ambitions were never very high. But on the other matter, let's wait and see what transpires should we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughyed Rats Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Just now, Tommygilf said: Pardon my ignorance but that makes no sense to me? Either it does change, and League 1 clubs don't count in the scoring meaning as described above in Kirklees say the catchment is now to be split between Huddersfield and Batley. Or it's incorrect and League 1 clubs do count? I'm not sure how it works for League 1 clubs getting points for it. See amended post above. I don't think anyone is sure anymore. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 5 minutes ago, Dave T said: One thing I absolutely would agree with is that the communication from the sport's leaders is appalling, probably the worst I've ever known in in 40 years of watching. And I don't mean IMG, they are the third in line really, behind RLCom and the RFL. When we have questions about what the game is doing in London, it is them who should be speaking up. TBH, it's basic things like, "if Toulouse qualify as the away team for the Championship final, on which day will that game be played". 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Pardon my ignorance but that makes no sense to me? Either it does change, and League 1 clubs don't count in the scoring meaning as described above in Kirklees say the catchment is now to be split between Huddersfield and Batley. Or it's incorrect and League 1 clubs do count? I'm not sure how it works for League 1 clubs getting points for it. This was my understanding as well. Using Kirklees LA as an example - This year Huddersfield, Batley and Dewsbury divided the population by 3 because they were all in SL/Champ. Next year they will divide it by two because Dewsbury will be in L1. All three get a higher figure (although I'm not sure if it'll pass a threshold and change their scores). All three get the chance of extra points because of Dewsbury's relegation - Dewsbury included. Equally a team could get promoted from L1 and they and a neighbouring club could consequently lose catchment points. Edited October 14 by Barley Mow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 2 minutes ago, gingerjon said: TBH, it's basic things like, "if Toulouse qualify as the away team for the Championship final, on which day will that game be played". Aye, basically operational stuff (surely they will have done the 'what ifs') but also the wider strategy pieces and telling us where the game is going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughyed Rats Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: This was my understanding as well. Using Kirklees LA as an example - This year Huddersfield, Batley and Dewsbury divided the population by 3 because they were all in SL/Champ. Next year they will divide it by two because Dewsbury will be in L1. All three get a higher figure (although I'm not sure if it'll pass a threshold and change their scores). Effectively all three get the chance of extra points because of Dewsbury's relegation! 2021 census shows 443,300 for Kirklees. Divided by 3 is 147,767 and would give 1 IMG point. However, divided by 2 is 221,650 which will give the maximum score of 1.5 IMG points. Presumably, that will be for their scores next year? Edited October 14 by Roughyed Rats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 8 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said: That is where the RFL would need to step in and not give them a choice like they have done on so many things over the years. The more I think about it 11/11/11 makes a lot of sense if we were unfortunate enough to lose London and then they could look to build on it to a point we could get back to 12/12/12. Got to have that equal split though. If you listened to the BBC podcast earlier this year featuring Syvain Houles, albeit he did not say anything outright he would not be committal on the future of his club if they fail to make SL in '25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Just now, Roughyed Rats said: 2021 census shows 443,300 for Kirklees. Divided by 3 is 147,767 and would give 1 IMG point. However, divided by 2 is 221,650 which will give the maximum score of 1.5 IMG points. Thanks. That's crazy - Dewsbury get relegated and it results in them and their neighbours all getting an extra half point. Huddersfield could find themselves desperately hoping that Dewsbury don't get promoted next season as it could get them relegated! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 11 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said: See amended post above. I don't think anyone is sure anymore. What a mess. Yes they are, but not the commentators on this site Roughyed, I wonder who it could be that could answer the question though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 9 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: This was my understanding as well. Using Kirklees LA as an example - This year Huddersfield, Batley and Dewsbury divided the population by 3 because they were all in SL/Champ. Next year they will divide it by two because Dewsbury will be in L1. All three get a higher figure (although I'm not sure if it'll pass a threshold and change their scores). All three get the chance of extra points because of Dewsbury's relegation - Dewsbury included. Equally a team could get promoted from L1 and they and a neighbouring club could consequently lose catchment points. I suppose it reflects the relative status of League 1 really. Likewise if two clubs are closer in status, there is going to be more competition for sponsors fans etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughyed Rats Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 10 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: Thanks. That's crazy - Dewsbury get relegated and it results in them and their neighbours all getting an extra half point. Huddersfield could find themselves desperately hoping that Dewsbury don't get promoted next season as it could get them relegated! Complete and utter madness. How do we expect to be taken seriously as a sport. It's embarrassing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Just now, Tommygilf said: I suppose it reflects the relative status of League 1 really. Likewise if two clubs are closer in status, there is going to be more competition for sponsors fans etc. I can see what they were trying to achieve - Effectively saying that L1 clubs aren't 'attractive' enough to compete in the market for fans/attention in a catchment area. They must have been able to predict what impact promotion/relegation between Championship & L1 though would have though and see how crazy it is to increase your score by being relegated. I dislike the system as a whole, but am resigned to giving it a fair shot - Catchment though is the element that sits least easy with me and this part of it just seems mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Gordon Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 15 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: ... Huddersfield could find themselves desperately hoping that Dewsbury don't get promoted next season as it could get them relegated! Equally, it may be the thing that saves them next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughyed Rats Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: Thanks. That's crazy - Dewsbury get relegated and it results in them and their neighbours all getting an extra half point. Huddersfield could find themselves desperately hoping that Dewsbury don't get promoted next season as it could get them relegated! Actually, I stand corrected as the threshold is not 160k but 260k, so don't think it will come into play just yet but the principle remains. Edited October 14 by Roughyed Rats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Just now, Barley Mow said: I can see what they were trying to achieve - Effectively saying that L1 clubs aren't 'attractive' enough to compete in the market for fans/attention in a catchment area. They must have been able to predict what impact promotion/relegation between Championship & L1 though would have though and see how crazy it is to increase your score by being relegated. I dislike the system as a whole, but am resigned to giving it a fair shot - Catchment though is the element that sits least easy with me and this part of it just seems mad. It's a quirk, but let's be real getting relegated from the Championship is hardly going to see Dewsbury (for example) become a commercial animal in West Yorkshire with the Tetley stadium corporate rivalling Friday nights at Headingley. As ever I think this system has been refined from the original, but it's not perfect. It does get the general vibe right though on this imo. We want clubs in big, wealthy population centres dominating that space and rippling outwards to be culturally relevant. I don't think we are likely to see a scenario that ends up with this sort of thing being consequential. L1 to the Championship and vice versa is still purely on field at the moment, and of the examples that could impact I'm not sure how realistic any of them are? Maybe a Batley promotion bid? Would Bradford be impacted by Keighley? A Fev collapse seems unlikely? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 7 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said: Actually, I stand corrected as the threshold is not 160k but 260k, so don't think it will come into play just yet but the principle remains. 2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: It's a quirk, but let's be real getting relegated from the Championship is hardly going to see Dewsbury (for example) become a commercial animal in West Yorkshire with the Tetley stadium corporate rivalling Friday nights at Headingley. As ever I think this system has been refined from the original, but it's not perfect. It does get the general vibe right though on this imo. We want clubs in big, wealthy population centres dominating that space and rippling outwards to be culturally relevant. I don't think we are likely to see a scenario that ends up with this sort of thing being consequential. L1 to the Championship and vice versa is still purely on field at the moment, and of the examples that could impact I'm not sure how realistic any of them are? Maybe a Batley promotion bid? Would Bradford be impacted by Keighley? A Fev collapse seems unlikely? It could be that they've been clever in setting the thresholds so that this just a theoretical issue and doesn't have any impact in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worzel Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 On 11/10/2024 at 14:02, Angelic Cynic said: Appears as though the press and media folk who championed IMG may have some doubts. https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-grand-final-fairytale-rugby-league-headache-3319279 I pointed out to John online that the two major turning points in Hull KR's fortunes that have resulted in us getting to a Grand Final directly correlated with the IMG-era "future state", but he had little interest. Namely: 1. Knowing we'd not be getting relegated in 2020 (through the sheer luck of Toronto), enabling us to plan for 2021 and beyond in that failed season rather than press the panic button and do short-term stuff instead. All clubs will have that ability soon, just as they do in the NRL. 2. Attracting our new Board members and investors in 2022, for whom the IMG strategy was key to joining. Paul Sewell's business acumen and network, and James McNichol's money, would not have been brought to the club without this. The Hull KR of 2023 and 2024 has been built on improved squad depth, which needs money. Our marketing decisions and outcomes have been built on an improved commercial team, which needs money. This is a long-term play, one undermined by the annual insecurity of the old model. Strangely he preferred to not see that Hull KR's growth and progress in 2024 offers a glimpse of the art of the possible in this new era, and instead re-hashed some tired old cliches about IMG not being "visible" enough. We need to be realistic: £500k per year gets you some good advice, some data-led insight and a bit of marketing strategy support, but come on people it's less than £50k per club so it really doesn't mean that clubs don't have to then do the hard yards themselves. They do. Those that do, will prosper. Those that don't, or can't afford to, won't. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 5 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: It could be that they've been clever in setting the thresholds so that this just a theoretical issue and doesn't have any impact in reality. I don't think any system that gives London lower catchment area population points than smallish places in the north of England can be described as 'clever'. I think you're right about this being largely theoretical though. Council areas with multiple clubs gives us Bradford/ Keighley, Castleford/ Wakefield/ Featherstone, Leeds/ Hunslet, Wigan/Leigh, Huddersfield/ Dewsbury/ Batley and Hull/Hull KR. Bradford and Leeds are big enough for it not to matter. Kirklees, Wigan and Wakefield council districts are small enough that they don't get full points anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 38 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: Huddersfield could find themselves desperately hoping that Dewsbury don't get promoted next season as it could get them relegated! 22 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said: Equally, it may be the thing that saves them next week. Oh I do hope so and by a fraction of a point, that should go down well if it comes down to a legal challenge by a club missing out on a fraction of a point that a club who has been relegated from a lower competition increases the score of a club to maintain SL status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Gordon Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Oh I do hope so and by a fraction of a point, that should go down well if it comes down to a legal challenge by a club missing out on a fraction of a point that a club who has been relegated from a lower competition increases the score of a club to maintain SL status. Happily (or alas?), the latest few posts show that this won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 2 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said: Happily (or alas?), the latest few posts show that this won't happen. Boo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Oh I do hope so and by a fraction of a point, that should go down well if it comes down to a legal challenge by a club missing out on a fraction of a point that a club who has been relegated from a lower competition increases the score of a club to maintain SL status. In all likelihood Harry what will happen is Wakefield will replace London, and that will be it, clubs in all the leagues can then start planning on how to increase their scores, know you’re desperate for some kind of legal action (for reasons i do not know ) the game has very little money as it is, why do you want clubs to waste that in lawyers, who will be the inly winners! but it’s not going to happen. Edited October 14 by Chrispmartha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREPOSTEROUS Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Just on Dewsburys relegation, surely it's status quo for Batley and Huddersfield as Dewsbury were in league one for the preliminarily scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: If you listened to the BBC podcast earlier this year featuring Syvain Houles, albeit he did not say anything outright he would not be committal on the future of his club if they fail to make SL in '25. Oh if that happens will certainly have to go to 11/11/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barley Mow said: It could be that they've been clever in setting the thresholds so that this just a theoretical issue and doesn't have any impact in reality. And if Batley were to be relegated to L1 too, or one of Cas, Fev or Wake? Clubs should not be able to gain points through relegation. Edited October 14 by Les Tonks Sidestep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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