IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[Chrispmartha]

22 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

We are leaguies - we should rely on leaguies for the big stuff. 

Cos that’s worked great in the past hasn’t it.

You’re talking as if IMG are some two bit company 

[Chrispmartha]

15 minutes ago, LeeF said:

So everything that has been suggested by IMG, agreed by the Clubs and implemented by the RFL to improve the game, which is required, could have been done by just about anyone on this forum and probably already within the game. That leaves just 1 very simple question. Why hasn’t it been implented at any time over the last 5, 10 or 20 years?

Or why Exiled Wiganer hasn’t offered his services to the RFL?

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, LeeF said:

So everything that has been suggested by IMG, agreed by the Clubs and implemented by the RFL to improve the game, which is required, could have been done by just about anyone on this forum and probably already within the game. That leaves just 1 very simple question. Why hasn’t it been implented at any time over the last 5, 10 or 20 years?

Simple answer those running the RL have not been up to the task, they have continually promoted from the inside effectively giving 'jobs to the boys' who then become the decision makers who are left with nowhere else to turn only to outsource help, employing IMG substantiates just how inadequate they are.

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Simple answer those running the RL have not been up to the task, they have continually promoted from the inside effectively giving 'jobs to the boys' who then become the decision makers who are left with nowhere else to turn only to outsource help, employing IMG substantiates just how inadequate they are.

Is that same for all IMGs clients then? Or any organisation that outsources services?

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

So everything that has been suggested by IMG, agreed by the Clubs and implemented by the RFL to improve the game, which is required, could have been done by just about anyone on this forum and probably already within the game. That leaves just 1 very simple question. Why hasn’t it been implented at any time over the last 5, 10 or 20 years?

Very exciting post here, will give us a few more pages at least. 
In order to discuss if IMGs contribution is above the level that any hive mind of rugby league fans could have produced then first we must establish what IMGs contribution is? Something nobody is able to do!

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Very exciting post here, will give us a few more pages at least. 
In order to discuss if IMGs contribution is above the level that any hive mind of rugby league fans could have produced then first we must establish what IMGs contribution is? Something nobody is able to do!

What are you actually asking for here? Like genuinely, what is the answer that will make you happy?

[Hopie]

20 hours ago, Hopie said:

I wonder how Hunslet's IMG score went up, and how it went down after their promotion.

Interesting that there were different reactions to this, my initial thoughts were that they would gain nothing from winning the promotion playoff, as there league position was unchanged for this year, still recorded as 2nd in League 1 after winning the playoff final.

I had also considered they might lose by having to share their catchment with the Rhinos, as IMG deem they have just entered that catchment by promotion, but will that be taken into account this year, or next? But it was pointed out that even though their catchment is basically the same, IMG considers it to have halved, but also considers it should get the same number of points as it did this year. All obvious and sensible of course.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Interesting that there were different reactions to this, my initial thoughts were that they would gain nothing from winning the promotion playoff, as there league position was unchanged for this year, still recorded as 2nd in League 1 after winning the playoff final.

I had also considered they might lose by having to share their catchment with the Rhinos, as IMG deem they have just entered that catchment by promotion, but will that be taken into account this year, or next? But it was pointed out that even though their catchment is basically the same, IMG considers it to have halved, but also considers it should get the same number of points as it did this year. All obvious and sensible of course.

There is logic to the catchment area scoring, whether you agree with it or not. Rather like most of them. We can nitpick, but there is some rationale there. Accepting there absolutely are flaws.

[17 stone giant]

4 hours ago, LeeF said:

So everything that has been suggested by IMG, agreed by the Clubs and implemented by the RFL to improve the game, which is required, could have been done by just about anyone on this forum and probably already within the game. That leaves just 1 very simple question. Why hasn’t it been implented at any time over the last 5, 10 or 20 years?

Obviously I wouldn't say "everything" as I'm certain IMG have expertise and experience that wasn't already present in the sport, but I do think that some of what IMG is doing isn't really that sophisticated and could have been done by the sport. Unfortunately, it wasn't, and now you're paying IMG a decent chunk of money to do some fairly basic things, along with the more difficult stuff.

Just as an example, and I appreciate that it's only a summary, but when the IMG re-imagining recommendations says things like:

A calendar aligned with the global game to facilitate an international window in October and incorporate a mid-season international. (Reimagining Rugby League – IMG presents recommendations (rugby-league.com))

I do think to myself, surely rugby league didn't need to pay someone to tell it that? These sorts of ideas and conversations have taken place on this forum for years. I doubt anyone here is sitting there thinking "wow, that's a great idea from IMG. I never thought of that."

As a sort of outsider here (in that I don't have a club team with a stake in proceedings), I do look and think that some of the IMG critics (such as Harry) should turn some of their criticism back on to the people who failed to implement these things already. IMG are now, in my view, taking your money partly to tell you how to suck eggs.

I just hope that overall they are able to improve things by such an extent that everyone forgets that probably rugby league should have done some of this before deciding it needed outside help.

[RP London]

21 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

There would be no need for the article RP if what you say in your first question had taken place with the 3 bodies making themselves available to answer questions from those who may have more inside knowledge than those of us from both sides of the debate on these pages that just speculate on.

Personally speaking, in buisness if a supplier would not be prepared to answer all I required/wanted to know about their commodities, I would think what have they got to hide, they should have the answers to anything that may be posed to them about their product.

This isn't a business working with each other this is a set of journalists asking questions and businesses have the right to not answer the questions, especially if they are trying to focus the attention on something else while they will tell you about the other thing at a different time, that is 100% the prerogative.  Whether that is then seen as good or not is different. But it is done a lot in all aspects of life, for one reason or another. If IMG and the RFL were not being open with each other that would then fit your analogy and yes that would be odd.

As I've said I'd like to see them being bit more open but I understand why they are not right now. 

There was no need for an article that told us nothing, was a pointless piece IMHO.

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I do think to myself, surely rugby league didn't need to pay someone to tell it that?

And then you look at the impossibility of a big ticket mid-season international and the shrinking of the Autumn window and realise that maybe it did need exactly that?

[Archie Gordon]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And then you look at the impossibility of a big ticket mid-season international and the shrinking of the Autumn window and realise that maybe it did need exactly that?

No.

UK RL deffo did not need to be told that.

But how's it going now it has been told? 

[north yorks trinity]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And then you look at the impossibility of a big ticket mid-season international and the shrinking of the Autumn window and realise that maybe it did need exactly that?

Maybe but if they're so short sighted that they did need someone to tell them basic stuff are they likely to listen anyway when they are told? Or to put it another way, will they just see and hear what they want to?

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

UK RL deffo did not need to be told that.

But how's it going now it has been told? 

They sort of did need to be told because they keep putting on half baked internationals in over saturated places and then running two test series in those same places at the season's end.

Our most recent mid season international was a curtain raiser for a tier 2 game.

So, it's going badly.

Which is what happens when you ignore sound recommendations.

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, north yorks trinity said:

Maybe but if they're so short sighted that they did need someone to tell them basic stuff are they likely to listen anyway when they are told? Or to put it another way, will they just see and hear what they want to?

It's worth saying that, from memory, this board wasn't 100% clear on whether IMG would even recommend a continuation of the internationals given the state they are now in.

I should also add that if I were simply interested in making money in the short term I'd not recommend them either - even though, as a fan, and with an eye to the longer term, I think they're essential.

[north yorks trinity]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

They sort of did need to be told because they keep putting on half baked internationals in over saturated places and then running two test series in those same places at the season's end.

Our most recent mid season international was a curtain raiser for a tier 2 game.

So, it's going badly.

Which is what happens when you ignore sound recommendations.

What you describe above sounds like stuff that's been happening after IMG became involved!!!

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

They sort of did need to be told because they keep putting on half baked internationals in over saturated places and then running two test series in those same places at the season's end.

Our most recent mid season international was a curtain raiser for a tier 2 game.

So, it's going badly.

Which is what happens when you ignore sound recommendations.

But they already knew that.

The 2022-2030 RFL strategy doc even goes so far as to suggest a *minimum* of 4 tests per year for Eng men, women and wheelchair. We therefore know the folks in charge can ignore their own advice. Now we know they can ignore the same advice - but paid for!

[gingerjon]

17 minutes ago, north yorks trinity said:

What you describe above sounds like stuff that's been happening after IMG became involved!!!

Yes.

IMG don't run the game.

[Exiled Wiganer]

13 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Or why Exiled Wiganer hasn’t offered his services to the RFL?

I do a great deal for them. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes.

IMG don't run the game.

Do you work for IMG? 
Have you ever had any contact with IMG? 

I don’t see where your slavish loyalty to them comes from. Having seen them first hand, they have a decent address book but next to zero to add “strategically” that Old Faithful and Padge couldn’t come up with in the pub. 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Having seen them first hand, they have a decent address book but next to zero to add “strategically” that Old Faithful and Padge couldn’t come up with in the pub. 

We've done 'back of a fag packet' for years and it's left the game smaller than it's ever been.

Get four rugby league fans round a table in a pub and you'll find they have four different solutions for the game - but, as they'll be four pints in, they'll think they agree with each other.

Edited October 15 by gingerjon

[Tommygilf]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes.

IMG don't run the game.

This is the critical point here.

They're employed, for a relatively modest sum, as long term consultants. They have recommended lots, the game has taken on board some but not all of those recommendations. Clearly some were more red line than others. They have helped develop the digital space for clubs, and notably have produced a whole new platform for the Sport in SL+ too. 

Less than £500k per annum really is small fry in the sports world. Yet it epitomises state of RL that for some this is seen as huge and question why aren't we getting more...

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Less than £500k per annum really is small fry in the sports world. Yet it epitomises state of RL that for some this is seen as huge and question why aren't we getting more...

In both the sports world, and the consultancy world, it's button money, especially when divided up amongst all the things (and clubs) they are working with the RFL and RL Commerical on.

But to our performative professional northerners it's, "Owwww much?!" as if they're being shown the price of a pint at Lord's.

[Tommygilf]

15 hours ago, Dave T said:

I just can't help but feel that RL will just always be like this because of its northern-Ness. I always try and stay pragmatic and often defend Northerners from a lot of unfair and arrogant critcism. But I do feel that the stubbornness and self deprecation which is a trait of Northerners is  a barrier.

I think we are some of the most welcoming people around, but we'll also be blunt and honest, and pretty negative which can appear unfriendly, and I think the trait of rather being right than proven wrong and the game flourishing is a challenging one.

Our Northernness should be celebrated, but we should also be self-aware enough to know when it is a short-coming.

I tend to agree. We seem to be less the indie northern game types, we do not have a significant presence in that scene. Our retro gear isn't hip and trendy. A lot of that comes down to where we are located. The cultural leaders in the nation is clearly London, followed by daylight then the likes of Manchester, Leeds, Bristol, Sheffield and Newcastle etc. We have a significant cultural presence in one of those places, and the association is likely to be somewhat negative with a lot of the surroundings.

Perhaps its my own negative "Northerness", but it appears to me at least that we are still associated with a vision of the North that is not the vibrant hubs of say Leeds or Manchester, nor the "Welcome to Yorkshire" countryfile paradise that hosted the Tour de France, but the grim and dour post-industrial North of the 1980s. 

That permeates everything we do imo, partly because it's true, partly because a lot of the leaders within the game believe it.

It's all a bit Phoenix Nights. That doesn't have to all go, but the sport needs to get into the modern era.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

In both the sports world, and the consultancy world, it's button money, especially when divided up amongst all the things (and clubs) they are working with the RFL and RL Commerical on.

But to our performative professional northerners it's, "Owwww much?!" as if they're being shown the price of a pint at Lord's.

I think it certainly shows the cognitive dissonance between how much IMG are actually been paid and how much some people are expecting them to do.

"I could have told them that for bloody free!" is another classic of the genre.