War of the Roses (Again)

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

A rather redundant concept, might as well go back 1000 years, 

Kingdom of Mercia 

       v Kingdom of Northumbria 

Or 100,000 years. Homo Sapien vs Neanderthals.

I'm sure there are enough Neanderthals in Wigan to make up the numbers.

[sam4731]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

I miss taking about Euro XIIIs. 

BINGO!

[Henson Park Old Firm]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/shaun-wane-drops-clear-war-of-the-roses-hint-as-huge-development-emerges

[sam4731]

Thousands of posts about whether bringing back WotR is a good idea.

One from @sam4731 and the England boss is talking about it.

Anyone want anything else to happen that I can start a thread about?

[Anita Bath]

Where does he get “origin in the 1980s was a couple of thousand at Sydney” from?

The lowest attendance at a Sydney orign game in the 1980s was 16910 in 1988 for a dead rubber game. Its the only time there has been less than 20000 at a sydney origin.

[sam4731]

49 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Where does he get “origin in the 1980s was a couple of thousand at Sydney” from?

The lowest attendance at a Sydney orign game in the 1980s was 16910 in 1988 for a dead rubber game. Its the only time there has been less than 20000 at a sydney origin.

I'm presuming he meant the 1980 interstate series in which the Sydney game attracted only 1368. The waning interest in the interstate series was actually the catalyst for Origin itself. It proves that a concept that has once failed can actually succeed.

[Archie Gordon]

Half of the very exciting PNG squad is over here in 2025. Fit that game/series in somewhere during the season and forget about the WotR.

[gingerjon]

57 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Half of the very exciting PNG squad is over here in 2025. Fit that game/series in somewhere during the season and forget about the WotR.

We have literally every commentator going that there's nothing like international RL, only internationals deliver this, what an an amazing day of international RL etc.

We have Australia being enticed to play a series they have lost once in seven decades - because only international RL can reach the parts other games cannot reach.

And, in return, we have the coach of England RL saying, "How about we play a mediocre fixture between parts of the M62? It's only failed one hundred times already."

[JohnM]

On 31/10/2024 at 19:47, sam4731 said:

Or 100,000 years. Homo Sapien vs Neanderthals.

I'm sure there are enough Neanderthals in Wigan to make up the numbers.

Only when Stains are playing at the Brick. 

[Bongo1]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

Half of the very exciting PNG squad is over here in 2025. Fit that game/series in somewhere during the season and forget about the WotR.

This is a good option, how many kumuls are due to play in Super league and the championship in 2025?

Would probably need a few of the Queensland cup lads to be released 

[Archie Gordon]

17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We have literally every commentator going that there's nothing like international RL, only internationals deliver this, what an an amazing day of international RL etc.

We have Australia being enticed to play a series they have lost once in seven decades - because only international RL can reach the parts other games cannot reach.

And, in return, we have the coach of England RL saying, "How about we play a mediocre fixture between parts of the M62? It's only failed one hundred times already."

Exactly.

And I think Wane's suggestion is actually made even worse by him wanting 'Briersy and Lasty' (in other words himself) picking the teams. Tinpot.

And that's all before McMeeken et al are made to pick a side ...

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Bongo1 said:

This is a good option, how many kumuls are due to play in Super league and the championship in 2025?

Would probably need a few of the Queensland cup lads to be released 

I think there must be 10-15 PNG players in SL and the Champ for 2025. You could fly over about 10 more players/staff without the NRL noticing and probably only PNG Hunters would be impacted. It represents a fantastic opportunity for everyone IMO.

[Anita Bath]

12 hours ago, sam4731 said:

I'm presuming he meant the 1980 interstate series in which the Sydney game attracted only 1368. The waning interest in the interstate series was actually the catalyst for Origin itself. It proves that a concept that has once failed can actually succeed.

Precisely, origin was created to provide a more meaningful, competitive series and the game, players fans and TV companies bought into it. But it was a different game to the interstate series. We have already tried origin style war of the roses…several times. It hasnt had the same result sadly.

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, Anita Bath said:

Precisely, origin was created to provide a more meaningful, competitive series and the game, players fans and TV companies bought into it. But it was a different game to the interstate series. We have already tried origin style war of the roses…several times. It hasnt had the same result sadly.

Yes but the major factor was surely marketing. People can't have bought into the concept that much more just because they changed the eligibility rules. For me, it just takes the right marketing to build it becoming a success.

[Hopie]

If the Ashes is confirmed, then Roses style trial games would be the best use of a mid-season window in terms of preparation, its what we did last time the Ashes were played. 

I'm sure the Knights could play France at the end of the season, even if it is just to burn some suspensions.

[sam4731]

1 minute ago, Hopie said:

If the Ashes is confirmed, then Roses style trial games would be the best use of a mid-season window in terms of preparation, its what we did last time the Ashes were played. 

I'm sure the Knights could play France at the end of the season, even if it is just to burn some suspensions.

The Knights could give both France and the Cook Islands a warm up game if the World Series is in this country but I'm not sure it will be.

[Archie Gordon]

We could, of course, take the well-trodden route of WotR or England-Exiles. After 14k in the ground for year 1, 9-12k thereafter. Minimal wider interest via TV or media. Perhaps not to be scoffed.

But there should be no doubt that this is the option taken by the unambitious dullard. 

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

The Knights could give both France and the Cook Islands a warm up game if the World Series is in this country but I'm not sure it will be.

The Knights have played 12 times in 14 years, the last time being over two years ago.

There doesn't appear to be much interest in reviving them.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

We could, of course, take the well-trodden route of WotR or England-Exiles. After 14k in the ground for year 1, 9-12k thereafter. Minimal wider interest via TV or media. Perhaps not to be scoffed.

But there should be no doubt that this is the option taken by the unambitious dullard. 

We just need to work out what the cheapest option is. Yorks v Lancs will need two new sets of kits and someone to photoshop a couple of roses onto a shield or two, whereas England v Exiles just the one new kit and one new badge.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The Knights have played 12 times in 14 years, the last time being over two years ago.

There doesn't appear to be much interest in reviving them.

People talk about the Knights playing France devaluing International Rugby League but I'm not sure it can devalue it anymore than France have done themsleves when it comes to mid season matches.

[sam4731]

25 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

We could, of course, take the well-trodden route of WotR or England-Exiles. After 14k in the ground for year 1, 9-12k thereafter. Minimal wider interest via TV or media. Perhaps not to be scoffed.

But there should be no doubt that this is the option taken by the unambitious dullard. 

Or we can just not accept that it will be another failure and actually put some effort into it.

I'm not saying that it will happen, I'm just saying that it's an option that's available.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

People talk about the Knights playing France devaluing International Rugby League but I'm not sure it can devalue it anymore than France have done themsleves when it comes to mid season matches.

I don't disagree but I also don't see any particular movement from the RFL for the Knights to play any games at all.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, sam4731 said:

Or we can just not accept that it will be another failure and actually put some effort into it.

Are you saying no effort has been put in on the other one hundred occasions?

What would be different this time?

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Or we can just not accept that it will be another failure and actually put some effort into it.

I'm not saying that it will happen, I'm just saying that it's an option that's available.

But what are the circumstances in which WotR attracts anything other than 9-12k and limited media attention? What effort has been missing previously?

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don't disagree but I also don't see any particular movement from the RFL for the Knights to play any games at all.

Oh yeah I agree, I was just adding to your post. For me the Knights is the perfect vehicle to play France, Wales et al. They, or England Knights in another name when we had GB and England playing in the European Championship etc, always beat these nations anyway. I think differences in attendances would be negligible too. It could be used as a development tool in Europe and a stepping stone for players to the full England team.

Edited November 3, 2024 by Damien