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War of the Roses (Again)

sam4731
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You've had the debate now make your choice.   

74 members have voted

  1. 1. War of the Roses.. Yes or No

    • Bring it back.
      31
    • Leave it in the past.
      43

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Barley Mow

Barley Mow

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, EagleEyePie said:

Asterisks are players who haven't featured for England for a while or haven't featured at all.

Lancashire
FB - Welsby
W - Ashton
C - Percival*
C - Gildart*
W - Marshall
SO - Williams
SH - Smith
P - Havard
H - O'Neill
P - Lees
SR - Currie
SR - Nsemba
LF - Knowles

Bench - Delaney, Thompson, Whitley*, Walker
 

Yorkshire
FB - Evalds*
W - Handley
C - Newman
C - Wardle
W - Johnstone
SO - ?
SH - Lewis
P - Burgess
H - Clark
P - Harrison
SR - Nicholson
SR - Batchelor*
LF - Minchella

Bench - Dupree, Wilson, McMeeken?, Litten

If we could get relatively full strength sides I think we could get a competitive game. Yorkshire would have much more strength in depth in the centres so I went for Percival and Gildart due to experience but if someone like Sam Halsall or Zach Eckersley has a good start to the season there'd be a great opportunity for them to stake a claim.

Not sure who would partner Lewis in the halves in this hypothetical Yorkshire side but again, any uncertainty is an opportunity.

Jordan Abdull in the halves for Yorkshire?

Kallum Watkins in with a shout for Lancashire at centre?


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gingerjon
gingerjon

I'll repeat something I've said before. Around the world, in pretty much every sport, there is basically one example of a representative fixture between club and internationals, becoming a major

RugbyLeagueGeek
RugbyLeagueGeek

Put on a fixture vs France with minimal effort/marketing Lack of competitiveness and/or audience leads to calls to return to Yorks v Lancs Put on a Yorks vs Lancs fixture with minimal ef

sam4731
sam4731

With people starting to discuss mid season internationals I thought I'd reopen this wound. Surely with the ever dwindling enthusiasm for internationals in the NH, it's now worth a roll of the dic

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JM2010

JM2010

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, EagleEyePie said:

Asterisks are players who haven't featured for England for a while or haven't featured at all.

Lancashire
FB - Welsby
W - Ashton
C - Percival*
C - Gildart*
W - Marshall
SO - Williams
SH - Smith
P - Havard
H - O'Neill
P - Lees
SR - Currie
SR - Nsemba
LF - Knowles

Bench - Delaney, Thompson, Whitley*, Walker
 

Yorkshire
FB - Evalds*
W - Handley
C - Newman
C - Wardle
W - Johnstone
SO - ?
SH - Lewis
P - Burgess
H - Clark
P - Harrison
SR - Nicholson
SR - Batchelor*
LF - Minchella

Bench - Dupree, Wilson, McMeeken?, Litten

If we could get relatively full strength sides I think we could get a competitive game. Yorkshire would have much more strength in depth in the centres so I went for Percival and Gildart due to experience but if someone like Sam Halsall or Zach Eckersley has a good start to the season there'd be a great opportunity for them to stake a claim.

Not sure who would partner Lewis in the halves in this hypothetical Yorkshire side but again, any uncertainty is an opportunity.

Logan Moy, Davy Litten, Tom Holroyd, Mikali Oledski, Kruise Leeming, Darnell McIntosh could all be in with a shout for Yorkshire if they start the season well.

Also Nicholson is off to the NRL so will be unavailable so maybe both Bachelors in the 2nd row or Holroyd from Warrington. 

There’s also Ollie Russell who could play in the halves for Yorkshire 

Chrispmartha

Chrispmartha

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

Asterisks are players who haven't featured for England for a while or haven't featured at all.

Lancashire
FB - Welsby
W - Ashton
C - Percival*
C - Gildart*
W - Marshall
SO - Williams
SH - Smith
P - Havard
H - O'Neill
P - Lees
SR - Currie
SR - Nsemba
LF - Knowles

Bench - Delaney, Thompson, Whitley*, Walker
 

Yorkshire
FB - Evalds*
W - Handley
C - Newman
C - Wardle
W - Johnstone
SO - ?
SH - Lewis
P - Burgess
H - Clark
P - Harrison
SR - Nicholson
SR - Batchelor*
LF - Minchella

Bench - Dupree, Wilson, McMeeken?, Litten

If we could get relatively full strength sides I think we could get a competitive game. Yorkshire would have much more strength in depth in the centres so I went for Percival and Gildart due to experience but if someone like Sam Halsall or Zach Eckersley has a good start to the season there'd be a great opportunity for them to stake a claim.

Not sure who would partner Lewis in the halves in this hypothetical Yorkshire side but again, any uncertainty is an opportunity.

Morgan Knowles is from Cumbria 

Padge

Padge

Posted
Posted

St.Helens and Barrow-in-Furness are both in the county palatine of Lancashire.

  • Like 1

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Hopie

Hopie

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Is that the criteria? St Helens is in Merseyside 

The counties involved are older than Rugby league, it would be unwise to suggest that the boundaries that apply are those from a government administrative act from the 1970s which explicitly stated that it was not changing historic county boundaries.

For those born outside the two counties there are other eligibility criteria such as first pro club, e.g Chris Thorman played for Yorkshire even though he was born in Northumberland.

  • Like 2
Anita Bath

Anita Bath

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Yes but the major factor was surely marketing. People can't have bought into the concept that much more just because they changed the eligibility rules. For me, it just takes the right marketing to build it becoming a success.

Not at all. Queenslanders were tired of seeing their local lads getting hammered by exiled Queensland star players. It was no contest so had little attraction to fans in both states. Essentially it was a game between a team funded by pokie revenues against a team with no pokie revenues.

Once Q had access to all their players it became a competition worth watching and has remained so ever since. Yes marketing helps but even the best marketing managers cannot polish a ######.

sam4731

sam4731

Posted
  • Author
Posted
7 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Not at all. Queenslanders were tired of seeing their local lads getting hammered by exiled Queensland star players. It was no contest so had little attraction to fans in both states. Essentially it was a game between a team funded by pokie revenues against a team with no pokie revenues.

Once Q had access to all their players it became a competition worth watching and has remained so ever since. Yes marketing helps but even the best marketing managers cannot polish a ######.

So how do you explain the 1980 series getting 1358 in Sydney but got 25,000 in Brisbane? In fact, every series which had games in both states back to 1976, the Queensland game outnumbered the NSW game.

Chrispmartha

Chrispmartha

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Hopie said:

The counties involved are older than Rugby league, it would be unwise to suggest that the boundaries that apply are those from a government administrative act from the 1970s which explicitly stated that it was not changing historic county boundaries.

For those born outside the two counties there are other eligibility criteria such as first pro club, e.g Chris Thorman played for Yorkshire even though he was born in Northumberland.

The point I'm making is do people especially younger people see themselves as Lancastrian, is it something that they will get behind/care about?

I’m not totally against the idea I just don’t see the point

gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

So how do you explain the 1980 series getting 1358 in Sydney but got 25,000 in Brisbane? In fact, every series which had games in both states back to 1976, the Queensland game outnumbered the NSW game.

All you're doing is proving that New South Wales v Queensland in rugby league is a unique situation. Not replicable by other variant matches of either New South Wales and Queensland or rugby league.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

The point I'm making is do people especially younger people see themselves as Lancastrian, is it something that they will get behind/care about?

I’m not totally against the idea I just don’t see the point

I don't think the "Lancashire doesn't exist" argument really holds water. The evidence we have is that people do identify with Lancashire sports teams.

The kicker being they do that and it doesn't make any difference to whether a Roses match is either profitable enough or competitive enough to matter.

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Anita Bath

Anita Bath

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

So how do you explain the 1980 series getting 1358 in Sydney but got 25,000 in Brisbane? In fact, every series which had games in both states back to 1976, the Queensland game outnumbered the NSW game.

Yes the NSW fans wanted a challenge and Q couldnt provide one.

Do you know what living in Brisbane was like in the 1980s? Anything that got you out of the house after 5pm that didnt involve illegal activity was popular ( not necessarily more popular than the illegal activity though!

Watching the traffic lights change was popular.

The final days of the JBP dictatorship. The south bank cultural precinct was built in 1988 to coincide with the World Fair…coincidentally the year The JBP dictatorship ended.
 

 

redjonn

redjonn

Posted
Posted

I don't know if a resurrection of the Roses would be a good idea. I wish it was viable but understand the issues/concerns raised and it not being worthwhile as many have explained.

If the Roses was being used as a Robbie Burrows MND regular fund raising game would that have an impact on making it more viable and of interest.

  • Like 1
DI Keith Fowler

DI Keith Fowler

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I don't know if a resurrection of the Roses would be a good idea. I wish it was viable but understand the issues/concerns raised and it not being worthwhile as many have explained.

If the Roses was being used as a Robbie Burrows MND regular fund raising game would that have an impact on making it more viable and of interest.

I think for what they want this to be that would not be a great move. I need to stress I support fundraising for MND and other causes at games, but if you turn this into a charity match it will be just that.

  • Like 2

I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

redjonn

redjonn

Posted
Posted
Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

I think for what they want this to be that would not be a great move. I need to stress I support fundraising for MND and other causes at games, but if you turn this into a charity match it will be just that.

fair enough, it was just a thought over morning coffee... the cogs in t head don't really get movin till a few cups in

  • Thanks 1
Click

Click

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

Asterisks are players who haven't featured for England for a while or haven't featured at all.

Lancashire
FB - Welsby
W - Ashton
C - Percival*
C - Gildart*
W - Marshall
SO - Williams
SH - Smith
P - Havard
H - O'Neill
P - Lees
SR - Currie
SR - Nsemba
LF - Knowles

Bench - Delaney, Thompson, Whitley*, Walker
 

Yorkshire
FB - Evalds*
W - Handley
C - Newman
C - Wardle
W - Johnstone
SO - ?
SH - Lewis
P - Burgess
H - Clark
P - Harrison
SR - Nicholson
SR - Batchelor*
LF - Minchella

Bench - Dupree, Wilson, McMeeken?, Litten

If we could get relatively full strength sides I think we could get a competitive game. Yorkshire would have much more strength in depth in the centres so I went for Percival and Gildart due to experience but if someone like Sam Halsall or Zach Eckersley has a good start to the season there'd be a great opportunity for them to stake a claim.

Not sure who would partner Lewis in the halves in this hypothetical Yorkshire side but again, any uncertainty is an opportunity.

I believe in the academy versions of Roses that have been played, the London/The South based players represented Lancashire. 

DI Keith Fowler

DI Keith Fowler

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Click said:

I believe in the academy versions of Roses that have been played, the London/The South based players represented Lancashire. 

I'd love to know the reasoning here, and I'd love for it to be that the House of Lancaster technically won and therefore should have preference. People say history doesn't matter and here you have the outcome of a 500 year old war deciding who turns out for which academy side. 

Edited by DI Keith Fowler

I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I'd love to know the reasoning here, and I'd love for it to be that the House of Lancaster technically won and therefore should have preference. People say history doesn't matter and here you have the outcome of a 500 year old war deciding who turns out for which academy side. 

My memory also has it that Fulham and the Cumbria sides entered the Lancashire Cup.

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Hopie

Hopie

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

The point I'm making is do people especially younger people see themselves as Lancastrian, is it something that they will get behind/care about?

I’m not totally against the idea I just don’t see the point

I just watched England v Samoa, for me it would be like saying nobody cared about that because the English players are all British.

 

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