War of the Roses (Again)

[NRLandSL]

Only the RFL would bin off a fixture for “not delivering” after only 2 fixtures. The people organising these stuff must children. England will pay the consequences of this in the long term though. Whoever made this decision will make an absolute fool out of themselves.

Edited November 4, 2024 by NRLandSL

[JM2010]

1 minute ago, NRLandSL said:

That is a great idea. Lets they introduce something like that. Leaving France without any proper competition would be a horrible decision for not only the future of French rugby league but English rugby league too.

If, we drop the game against France I’ve been swayed towards England playing against an Exiles style team as they would put out a good 17.

France could play Wales at the same time with winner playing England before the end of season test series and maybe even Australia 

[NRLandSL]

6 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

If, we drop the game against France I’ve been swayed towards England playing against an Exiles style team as they would put out a good 17.

France could play Wales at the same time with winner playing England before the end of season test series and maybe even Australia 

If we want to grow the international game, We need international fixtures, nothing else. France vs England should be a given every single year probably at least twice. Instead we are being stripped of even a single test between England and France, because some ‘professionals’ don’t know what their doing.

 

Edited November 4, 2024 by NRLandSL

[MatthewWoody]

9 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

Only the RFL would bin off a fixture for “not delivering” after only 2 fixtures. The people organising these stuff must children. England will pay the consequences of this in the long term though. Whoever made this decision will make an absolute fool out of themselves.

Let's say the French deserve it for how they staged the test in Toulouse in front of nobody

Edited November 5, 2024 by MatthewWoody

[eal]

Does France even want a mid year test against England? There isn't strong evidence to suggest they do.

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

That is a great idea. Lets they introduce something like that. Leaving France without any proper competition would be a horrible decision for not only the future of French rugby league but English rugby league too.

It doesn't help England gell as a team though.

I get it that Yorkshire is still a thing and fans chant yorkshire etc.. but when us the last time any clubs fans chanted lancashire?

They don't as lancashire is a dead duck now. 

Cumbria on the other hand is still a bona fida county with RL heritage and county pride.

Instead of some hybrid france Wales and county's could have a proper county championship.

Cumbria,

Yorkshire

GM

Merseyside

Cheshire

London district?

Wouldn't include Lancashire as they don't have clubs that play tier 1 or 2 

[Hopie]

13 hours ago, Click said:

Are you comparing Pride in being English and Pride in being from Lancashire?

I'm suggesting that the pride in the place your team represents might be relevant to some and not others, there are lots of different reasons to go onto a field and play sport, just as there are many reasons for those who decide to watch. That people keep pushing the "Lancashire doesn't exist" argument in whatever way they suggest it doesn't diminish the other reasons to play the game.

[MatthewWoody]

A game in Oceania as they did in 2017 would help England more. 

By the way, if the England coach says it's important to play the Roses game for England selection, players will do it. 

[Eddie]

9 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

If we want to grow the international game, We need international fixtures, nothing else. France vs England should be a given every single year probably at least twice. Instead we are being stripped of even a single test between England and France, because some ‘professionals’ don’t know what their doing.

 

Have you ever been to an England v France game? 

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, yipyee said:

It doesn't help England gell as a team though.

I get it that Yorkshire is still a thing and fans chant yorkshire etc.. but when us the last time any clubs fans chanted lancashire?

They don't as lancashire is a dead duck now. 

Cumbria on the other hand is still a bona fida county with RL heritage and county pride.

Instead of some hybrid france Wales and county's could have a proper county championship.

Cumbria,

Yorkshire

GM

Merseyside

Cheshire

London district?

Wouldn't include Lancashire as they don't have clubs that play tier 1 or 2 

Can’t wait for Merseyside v London District. Will that be at Anfield or Everton’s new ground? 

[gingerjon]

6 hours ago, Hopie said:

That people keep pushing the "Lancashire doesn't exist" argument in whatever way they suggest it doesn't diminish the other reasons to play the game.

That is correct.
Thankfully, we have a hundred attempts at playing the fixture to show that there are plenty of other reasons why it's a terrible idea.

[Sports Prophet]

the beauty of 2025 is that a brand new narrative can be told by bringing back to old stories from history.

"England have rolled Samoa and then Tonga and in 2025 the Kangaroos will travel to these shores to be the first team to defeat England in a home series since 20whatever. But before all that, there are a few scores to be settled within our own shores. The nation will be divided once more into Red and White as Rugby Leagues greatest British servants do battle to secure their chance to face the might of Australia in November. It's the War of the Roses exclusive this weekend at the Etihad Stadium with only one chance to impress before the mighty Kangaroos come to compete for the Ashes" blah blah blah.

What I am getting at is that I think Roses can be a success if delivered as part of a narrative of the whole 2025 season which culminates with the biggest prize, the Ashes.

edit note: not to say you couldn't include England v France in a similar narrative. You just need to get the French on board to take it seriously and field a full strength team. They have their own giant killing story to tell.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Eddie]

Just now, Sports Prophet said:

What I am getting at is that I think Roses can be a success if delivered as part of a narrative of the whole 2025 season which culminates with the biggest prize, the Ashes.

It really wouldn’t be a success, the RFL could barely sell a World Cup, they certainly couldn’t sell a match between Yorkshire and Lancashire that literally nobody gives a toss about, they’d be lucky to sell 2,000 tickets. 

[sam4731]

I would like to hear from someone who thinks we need a mid season game but doesn't think France, Roses or Exiles is a big enough draw. There seems to be plenty with thus view but I'm not sure what alternatives there are. For me, anything involving SH just isn't realistic anymore.

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

the beauty of 2025 is that a brand new narrative can be told by bringing back to old stories from history.

"England have rolled Samoa and then Tonga and in 2025 the Kangaroos will travel to these shores to be the first team to defeat England in a home series since 20whatever. But before all that, there are a few scores to be settled within our own shores. The nation will be divided once more into Red and White as Rugby Leagues greatest British servants do battle to secure their chance to face the might of Australia in November. It's the War of the Roses exclusive this weekend at the Etihad Stadium with only one chance to impress before the mighty Kangaroos come to compete for the Ashes" blah blah blah.

What I am getting at is that I think Roses can be a success if delivered as part of a narrative of the whole 2025 season which culminates with the biggest prize, the Ashes.

I applaud the enthusiasm but the nation wouldn't be divided, it would be pretty much unaware. A WotR game/series just can't be set up in any way to grab attention unfortunately. 

But, yeah, if you are going to try it, hold it at a big stadium. Better to crash and burn with it than hold yet more rep games at SL grounds in front of SL crowds.

[Archie Gordon]

6 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I would like to hear from someone who thinks we need a mid season game but doesn't think France, Roses or Exiles is a big enough draw. There seems to be plenty with thus view but I'm not sure what alternatives there are. For me, anything involving SH just isn't realistic anymore.

I would go France, PNG, PNG in Summer 2025. Doesn't need big crowds but does need careful planning around venues/branding and it does need a broadcaster.

To enter the national consciousness, the England team must play more games. One-offs tests have a limited impact and can't build into anything. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

It doesn't help England gell as a team though.

I get it that Yorkshire is still a thing and fans chant yorkshire etc.. but when us the last time any clubs fans chanted lancashire?

They don't as lancashire is a dead duck now. 

Cumbria on the other hand is still a bona fida county with RL heritage and county pride.

Instead of some hybrid france Wales and county's could have a proper county championship.

Cumbria,

Yorkshire

GM

Merseyside

Cheshire

London district?

Wouldn't include Lancashire as they don't have clubs that play tier 1 or 2 

Greater Manchester is not really a sporting thing at all and nobody, repeat nobody, outside Manchester self identifies as a Greater Mancunian.

Whereas anybody who has been to Lancashire CCC will hear accents from all over the ancient palatine of Lancashire both west and east.

Lancashire is the best identity for a team on this side of the hill.

 

Edited November 5, 2024 by Gerrumonside ref

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Have you ever been to an England v France game? 

Not sure why that is remotely relevant. No I am Australian. I watch them online.

[RP London]

To be fair I think I've cracked the for argument....

Lancashire play in red and white

Yorkshire play in white and Navy Blue (or they did the last time)

Therefore the England shirt should be a combination of the 2... 

[Dave T]

I think we should be playing France annually following the Grand Final. Both England and France struggled for fixtures this Autumn, just get that in the diary to kick off the international window, no matter what else is arranged. It shouldn't be negotiable.

 

[Eddie]

27 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Not sure why that is remotely relevant. No I am Australian. I watch them online.

They’re awful, completely one sided. You might as well demand two Australia v Cook Islands internationals a year to help the latter out. 

[Damien]

52 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Greater Manchester is not really a sporting thing at all and nobody, repeat nobody, outside Manchester self identifies as a Greater Mancunian.

Whereas anybody who has been to Lancashire CCC will hear accents from all over the ancient palatine of Lancashire both west and east.

Lancashire is the best identity for a team on this side of the hill.

Yep, I'm not a fan of Lancashire v Yorkshire but stuff like Greater Manchester is even more ridiculous. 

[NRLandSL]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

They’re awful, completely one sided. You might as well demand two Australia v Cook Islands internationals a year to help the latter out. 

England have only beaten France by 40 points or more once in the past 9 years. They are not awful completely one sided games. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Damien said:

Yep, I'm not a fan of Lancashire v Yorkshire but stuff like Greater Manchester is even more ridiculous. 

The only good thing to come out the Hundred - and even then it was sort of borrowed from the regional women's game - is that when Manchester Originals play Northern Superchargers, the commentators call it a 'Rose-ish' match.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, NRLandSL said:

England have only beaten France by 40 points or more once in the past 9 years. They are not awful completely one sided games. 

Stop pretending that one side winning by more than four tries when barely breaking sweat is a competitive game.