More evidence that NZ2 needs to be team #18

[Sports Prophet]

31 minutes ago, John bird said:

As an alternate home ground like Kayo Stadium for the dolphins.

they could play the big crowd drawing games at suncorp and the rest at langlands.

It’s not something I would support. I don’t understand the point of adding a big city heartland RL team to the league if they are only going to bring sub 15k crowds to the comp.

[John bird]

13 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s not something I would support. I don’t understand the point of adding a big city heartland RL team to the league if they are only going to bring sub 15k crowds to the comp.

It would only be a stop gap until another 25k-30k stadium could be built be it at langlands or QE2 stadium etc.

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, John bird said:

If the Brisbane tigers get the nod I wonder if their home ground langlands park could receive some funding for expansion from around 4k to 15k?

Just had it renovated with money from womens world cup where it was a training base. There isnt much oppotunity to expand further ground is hemmed in by the leagues club, a municipal swimming pool and the leagues club car park. Onlyroom for expansion would be behind one set of posts.

Might be ableto squeeze 7-8000 at a push.

[John bird]

3 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Just had it renovated with money from womens world cup where it was a training base. There isnt much oppotunity to expand further ground is hemmed in by the leagues club, a municipal swimming pool and the leagues club car park. Onlyroom for expansion would be behind one set of posts.

Might be ableto squeeze 7-8000 at a push.

That rules out langlands park then as 8k is simply too small.

[John bird]

Up the wahs baby!!!

the warriors bandwagon back on track and rolling on and potentially keeping the NZ2 bid relevant.

the warriors could probably sellout Eden park for their next home game after this incredible action packed fortnight.

[stookie]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s not something I would support. I don’t understand the point of adding a big city heartland RL team to the league if they are only going to bring sub 15k crowds to the comp.

So we all agree then, we don't let Brisbane Tigers into the competition, and we boot Cronulla out.

 

Ha ha ha...

[John bird]

10 minutes ago, stookie said:

So we all agree then, we don't let Brisbane Tigers into the competition, and we boot Cronulla out.

 

Ha ha ha...

Are cronulla traditionally a low drawing club or is it just because their stadium is currently capped at 13k capacity?

[stookie]

3 minutes ago, John bird said:

Are cronulla traditionally a low drawing club or is it just because their stadium is currently capped at 13k capacity?

It's more on the basis of the technicality that I felt like winding up SP.

But it's a good point, Cronulla's stadium sucks as it is, and they will whinge non-stop if anyone even contemplates them not playing a final there if they have home advantage, which of course they shouldn't be allowed to if all they can get in is 13k.

[John bird]

2 minutes ago, stookie said:

It's more on the basis of the technicality that I felt like winding up SP.

But it's a good point, Cronulla's stadium sucks as it is, and they will whinge non-stop if anyone even contemplates them not playing a final there if they have home advantage, which of course they shouldn't be allowed to if all they can get in is 13k.

Oh god, surely the NRL won’t allow the sharks to play home finals games at shark park again like last year?

[Sports Prophet]

8 hours ago, stookie said:

It's more on the basis of the technicality that I felt like winding up SP.

But it's a good point, Cronulla's stadium sucks as it is, and they will whinge non-stop if anyone even contemplates them not playing a final there if they have home advantage, which of course they shouldn't be allowed to if all they can get in is 13k.

There is a pretty large cohort of Sharks fans who don’t want the semi’s at Shark Park. Mainly from members who can’t get their seats and potentially miss out on tickets.

I think the Sharks belong at Allianz for their home finals. Place can be buzzing when it’s full of Sharks fans. 2016 Prelim is still my favourite RL experience I think.

[John bird]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is a pretty large cohort of Sharks fans who don’t want the semi’s at Shark Park. Mainly from members who can’t get their seats and potentially miss out on tickets.

I think the Sharks belong at Allianz for their home finals. Place can be buzzing when it’s full of Sharks fans. 2016 Prelim is still my favourite RL experience I think.

Would the sharks have fans spread throughout Sydney or would they be predominantly from the shire?

[GreenAndGold]

23 hours ago, John bird said:

As an alternate home ground like Kayo Stadium for the dolphins.

they could play the big crowd drawing games at suncorp and the rest at langlands.

If Easts Tigers get in they will play all NRL-level games at Lang Park. Langlands Park would remain as their training ground and host the QLD Cup team and the lower grades, it's far too close to the CBD/Suncorp to justify any serious upgrades by the government.

North Ipswich Reserve seems like the next 'new' stadium on the state government's list. However it'd rely upon the Ipswich Jets getting the next Brisbane license over Easts. Current plans are for a 12K stadium

Edited May 27 by GreenAndGold

[John bird]

16 minutes ago, GreenAndGold said:

If Easts Tigers get in they will play all NRL-level games at Lang Park. Langlands Park would remain as their training ground and host the QLD Cup team and the lower grades, it's far too close to the CBD/Suncorp to justify any serious upgrades by the government.

North Ipswich Reserve seems like the next 'new' stadium on the state government's list. However it'd rely upon the Ipswich Jets getting the next Brisbane license over Easts. Current plans are for a 12K stadium

That’s a tidy little ground that looks like it has scope for expanding behind the scoreboard goalposts and possibly the opposite touch line to the main grandstand.

[Sports Prophet]

8 hours ago, John bird said:

Would the sharks have fans spread throughout Sydney or would they be predominantly from the shire?

They’re a parochial bunch, but people do move around.

I don’t expect they get much following from fans either having not spent time growing up there or with parents or family who did.

The bulk of their fans will be in the Sutherland Shire I expect.

[John bird]

1 minute ago, Sports Prophet said:

They’re a parochial bunch, but people do move around.

I don’t expect they get much following from fans either having not spent time growing up there or with parents or family who did.

The bulk of their fans will be in the Sutherland Shire I expect.

So because of their location out in the shire the sharks don’t have much pull or city wide appeal within Sydney like the bunnies or roosters would have?

[Sports Prophet]

6 minutes ago, John bird said:

So because of their location out in the shire the sharks don’t have much pull or city wide appeal within Sydney like the bunnies or roosters would have?

I don’t think the Roosters have a lot of city wide appeal and I’m not sure many Sydney clubs do, including the Sharks. Souths would be an exception. Maybe the only one.

They weren’t very well liked for a while there. Peptides, Gallen, Fifita, Bird to name a few were reasonably unlikeable. 

They’ve got a new generation now with players which could lead to a few impressionable young fans steering their way like Hynes, Brailey, Hazelton, Talakai and Mulitalo.

Back to NZII, I don’t think there are many rusted on NRL fans in the South Island, so I would expect a new club could easily own the region and displace most previous allegiances or be the second favourite team at worst.

[John bird]

20 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t think the Roosters have a lot of city wide appeal and I’m not sure many Sydney clubs do, including the Sharks. Souths would be an exception. Maybe the only one.

They weren’t very well liked for a while there. Peptides, Gallen, Fifita, Bird to name a few were reasonably unlikeable. 

They’ve got a new generation now with players which could lead to a few impressionable young fans steering their way like Hynes, Brailey, Hazelton, Talakai and Mulitalo.

Back to NZII, I don’t think there are many rusted on NRL fans in the South Island, so I would expect a new club could easily own the region and displace most previous allegiances or be the second favourite team at worst.

What PVL would call tribalism.

as for a South Island NRL team I think many kiwis would abandon their Aussie based team or even the warriors in favour of having a team of their own.

[Anita Bath]

7 hours ago, GreenAndGold said:

If Easts Tigers get in they will play all NRL-level games at Lang Park. Langlands Park would remain as their training ground and host the QLD Cup team and the lower grades, it's far too close to the CBD/Suncorp to justify any serious upgrades by the government.

North Ipswich Reserve seems like the next 'new' stadium on the state government's list. However it'd rely upon the Ipswich Jets getting the next Brisbane license over Easts. Current plans are for a 12K stadium

I wouldnt rely on anything the state premier is ‘committing to’ at the moment….there is an election in October and he is staring at a landslide loss so throwing huge financial promises around that he doesn't expect to have to keep. Whoever the new government is will have to deal with the enormous deficit he is creating. Only yesterday he announced a state wide 50c fare on all public transport. So you will be able to travel from NSW border to Sunshine coast about 4 hour trip, for 50c. This followed on $1000 for every household for help with electricity bills…even those using solar power, and so dont pay for electricity, get it and those with multiple properties get multiple 000s all tax free.

Any stadium builds in Queensland in the next few years will need to be part of the Olympic programme. The new Brighton Homes arena, an AFL training facility for the Brisbane lions and home of the AFLW team, is just down the road from Ipswich so its difficult to see the business case for an Ipswich stadium particularly given the state of the Ipswich jets organisation.

[John bird]

Warriors next 2 homes games against the broncos and storm have sold out.

[Damien]

I can't say I agree with Cameron George at all, talk about looking after yourself and self preservation. I don't think his arguments stack up at all with the amount of NZ players snapped up by NRL clubs. If anything a 2nd NZ team will increase pathways greatly and increase the flow of 'Rugby' players to Rugby League:

Warriors chief executive Cameron George says New Zealand needs more investment in grassroots rugby league before it is ready to have two NRL teams.

But one of the two groups bidding for a NRL club in Christchurch believes the nation could support two teams from 2026 and that the Warriors should not fear competition.

George has presented a strategy paper to NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo, calling for it to invest in New Zealand Rugby League’s grassroots and schools system with a view to developing a second NRL team in the future.

“I’m not against two NRL teams, but you can’t run a NRL club without junior pathways,” George said on Tuesday.

“That’s why I’m asking the NRL to invest in the game throughout New Zealand and develop competitions and structures that would underpin having a second NRL team.”

George said in the Daily Telegraph last weekend that “you would not survive with a second New Zealand team right now”.

He told The Press on Tuesday: “We don’t have a domestic competition that would support the quality required for producing players for two New Zealand teams.’’

David Moffett - a former NZ Rugby and NRL chief executive - is leading the South Island Kea bid and said on Tuesday the Christchurch-based club would be ready to go in 2026. He felt George’s comments indicated “the Warriors are in panic mode at the moment”.

He suspected the Warriors “are most likely gleaning there will be two really good bids coming out of Christchurch and they want to protect their monopoly as long as they can”.

George said his pitch to the NRL was aimed at helping get more money to assist the NZRL to grow the game and, ultimately, make it easier for other groups bidding for a NRL entry.

With greater NRL investment, “in 10 years’ time you’re going to have more kids playing rugby league in New Zealand which is going to provide more rugby league talent to the game.”

https://www.thepress.co.nz/sport/350292574/south-island-bid-chief-david-moffett-disputes-warriors-claim-new-zealand-not-ready

[stookie]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I can't say I agree with Cameron George at all, talk about looking after yourself and self preservation. I don't think his arguments stack up at all with the amount of NZ players snapped up by NRL clubs. If anything a 2nd NZ team will increase pathways greatly and increase the flow of 'Rugby' players to Rugby League:

Warriors chief executive Cameron George says New Zealand needs more investment in grassroots rugby league before it is ready to have two NRL teams.

...

But why does it have to be rugby union players, Damien? Why do we need to rely on poaching RU players when they're 15, relying on RU organisations holding off until after 18, and the fact that, at the moment, the NRL is flush with cash and RU isn't?

I'm not against a 2nd NRL side, but I totally agree with Cameron George that funding grassroots RL is a great idea.

If for no other reason, we have seen before in Aus & NZ that RU can get close to RL in terms of attendance, attention, funding, media rights. I personally hope it doesn't return, but it could one day !

But also, a sport is always stronger when it's healthy from juniors to professional. If CG can convince the NRL to up its grassroots funding for NZ, then by all means grab as much as you can.

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, stookie said:

But why does it have to be rugby union players, Damien? Why do we need to rely on poaching RU players when they're 15, relying on RU organisations holding off until after 18, and the fact that, at the moment, the NRL is flush with cash and RU isn't?

I'm not against a 2nd NRL side, but I totally agree with Cameron George that funding grassroots RL is a great idea.

If for no other reason, we have seen before in Aus & NZ that RU can get close to RL in terms of attendance, attention, funding, media rights. I personally hope it doesn't return, but it could one day !

But also, a sport is always stronger when it's healthy from juniors to professional. If CG can convince the NRL to up its grassroots funding for NZ, then by all means grab as much as you can.

I never said it did have to be Rugby Union players.

[stookie]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I never said it did have to be Rugby Union players.

That's not what you meant by "increase the flow of 'Rugby' players to Rugby League" ?

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, stookie said:

That's not what you meant by "increase the flow of 'Rugby' players to Rugby League" ?

Well no. Increase does not mean relying on RU players.

You seem to want to make this an either/or argument when it should be both. Of course the NRL should be investing in developing junior Rugby League, that's a no brainer. However the fact is many school kids don't get a choice whether to play Rugby League or not. Even those that have a RL option frequently have to play RU to then be allowed to play Rugby league. Other schools just ban the playing of Rugby League completely, even out of school, and force lads to dedicate themselves to RU. As long as this situation exists and schools push RU to practically a professional standard then it is crazy to think we shouldn't also sign those players.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

I can't say I agree with Cameron George at all, talk about looking after yourself and self preservation. I don't think his arguments stack up at all with the amount of NZ players snapped up by NRL clubs. If anything a 2nd NZ team will increase pathways greatly and increase the flow of 'Rugby' players to Rugby League:

Warriors chief executive Cameron George says New Zealand needs more investment in grassroots rugby league before it is ready to have two NRL teams.

But one of the two groups bidding for a NRL club in Christchurch believes the nation could support two teams from 2026 and that the Warriors should not fear competition.

George has presented a strategy paper to NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo, calling for it to invest in New Zealand Rugby League’s grassroots and schools system with a view to developing a second NRL team in the future.

“I’m not against two NRL teams, but you can’t run a NRL club without junior pathways,” George said on Tuesday.

“That’s why I’m asking the NRL to invest in the game throughout New Zealand and develop competitions and structures that would underpin having a second NRL team.”

George said in the Daily Telegraph last weekend that “you would not survive with a second New Zealand team right now”.

He told The Press on Tuesday: “We don’t have a domestic competition that would support the quality required for producing players for two New Zealand teams.’’

David Moffett - a former NZ Rugby and NRL chief executive - is leading the South Island Kea bid and said on Tuesday the Christchurch-based club would be ready to go in 2026. He felt George’s comments indicated “the Warriors are in panic mode at the moment”.

He suspected the Warriors “are most likely gleaning there will be two really good bids coming out of Christchurch and they want to protect their monopoly as long as they can”.

George said his pitch to the NRL was aimed at helping get more money to assist the NZRL to grow the game and, ultimately, make it easier for other groups bidding for a NRL entry.

With greater NRL investment, “in 10 years’ time you’re going to have more kids playing rugby league in New Zealand which is going to provide more rugby league talent to the game.”

https://www.thepress.co.nz/sport/350292574/south-island-bid-chief-david-moffett-disputes-warriors-claim-new-zealand-not-ready

In short.

- agree, selfish (when really a rivalry will be the best thing for them

- per a later post, it’s not an either or, does anyone seriously think the NRL would welcome NZII without further improving pathways for talented Rugby players of both codes?