Euro 2024

[Maximus Decimus]

24 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

The book isn't finished yet. The first three chapters haven't been great, but chapter 4 against (probably) the Netherlands might be different. Win that and who knows where it will lead.

What I'm saying is, let's at least give England the opportunity to be knocked out, before we write the tournament off as being terrible.

My point way back was never to say that I thought Southgate was awful or a disaster. I was just giving my opinion that, all things considered, I didn't feel that what he had achieved was as praiseworthy as some people seem to think.

I felt that it was much closer to being what I've seen from England over many years, rather than some absolutely golden period where we've been doing things never seen or heard of before from any England team.

I've never thought it was golden in terms of play, but IMO it was largely different than what we've seen this time and the tournaments prior.

We've always had the odd game like this (Scotland, USA) and overall played conservatively but interspersed it with a mix of decent performances and solid games. I'll come back to games like the 6-2 against Iran or 4-0 against Ukraine. The 2016/2024 England teams would be struggling and maybe grinding out results in games like that.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I've never thought it was golden in terms of play, but IMO it was largely different than what we've seen this time and the tournaments prior.

The positive from the first and third games especially is that England never really looked particularly rattled at any point, and found ways to take the sting out of the game whenever the opposition looked like doing anything. That is a plus compared to pre-Southgate.

Also, last night, again, there were a couple of chances, and a silly offside, which could have made a dire 0-0 into a decent enough win.

They are very, very boring to watch though and if you're not winning then that in itself becomes unforgivable - even before you get to systems not working and players not fitting in.

This is meant to be sort of enjoyable.

[Maximus Decimus]

I watched the game last night in a pub, and one of my mates came who is a non-football fan and he pointed out some obvious flaws with the format. Then I heard Linekar this morning make a different point about the format.

I've never been a fan of the 24-team Euros, although I think this has been the best one. My point has been that it dilutes the quality and makes it too easy to qualify for many big teams. For instance, Netherlands should now be out for finishing third; now they'll end up knocking us out and making the final. England should have been facing at least some jeopardy last night etc

The obvious flaw pointed out by my friend was that two of the groups winners have to face 2nd place teams just because of luck of the draw. Then last night demonstrated the advantage Slovenia had over teams in Group A and B because they knew they could get a draw and qualify.

This feels a little like a smaller version of the old West Germany vs Austria situation in 1982.

[HawkMan]

Toughest decision for me, which game to watch from Group E. Been lucky with my choices so far, but this  one is tricky. Think I'll  start with Slovakia/ Romania and see what transpires.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The positive from the first and third games especially is that England never really looked particularly rattled at any point, and found ways to take the sting out of the game whenever the opposition looked like doing anything. That is a plus compared to pre-Southgate.

Also, last night, again, there were a couple of chances, and a silly offside, which could have made a dire 0-0 into a decent enough win.

They are very, very boring to watch though and if you're not winning then that in itself becomes unforgivable - even before you get to systems not working and players not fitting in.

This is meant to be sort of enjoyable.

You sound like me in the Steve Price era at Warrington. 

That's exactly how I feel now. I'm not going down the route of slating Southgate, but it is difficult to watch this team at the moment. 

One thing I would say, I think the tournament started like a house on fire, but I do think the excitement level has tailed off markedly. 

[HawkMan]

Slovakia 1-0, well deserved lead, now expect fireworks from Romania,  good start to game.

[gingerjon]

40 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I watched the game last night in a pub, and one of my mates came who is a non-football fan and he pointed out some obvious flaws with the format. Then I heard Linekar this morning make a different point about the format.

I've never been a fan of the 24-team Euros, although I think this has been the best one. My point has been that it dilutes the quality and makes it too easy to qualify for many big teams. For instance, Netherlands should now be out for finishing third; now they'll end up knocking us out and making the final. England should have been facing at least some jeopardy last night etc

The obvious flaw pointed out by my friend was that two of the groups winners have to face 2nd place teams just because of luck of the draw. Then last night demonstrated the advantage Slovenia had over teams in Group A and B because they knew they could get a draw and qualify.

This feels a little like a smaller version of the old West Germany vs Austria situation in 1982.

16 really is too small for the Euros now though - and 32 would make it just a little bit ridiculous.

There must be something better format-wise but football would be unlikely to ever move from having standard groups of 4.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

One thing I would say, I think the tournament started like a house on fire, but I do think the excitement level has tailed off markedly. 

That's not helped by Scotland being awful and getting knocked out and then England being terrible (despite going through)

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That's not helped by Scotland being awful and getting knocked out and then England being terrible (despite going through)

I did consider whether it has been my own personal boredom with those two teams, but there has been a fair few cases of trundling through the last game. 

I'm not enjoying this 3rd place qualifiers, it's all a touch too easy. Unless you're Scotland of course

[HawkMan]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You sound like me in the Steve Price era at Warrington. 

That's exactly how I feel now. I'm not going down the route of slating Southgate, but it is difficult to watch this team at the moment. 

One thing I would say, I think the tournament started like a house on fire, but I do think the excitement level has tailed off markedly. 

BBC do predictably put the " big" teams on BBC 1 , but I've enjoyed the other games. Austria v Netherlands was great,  and Slovakia v Romania I'm really enjoying so far. The only downer is Dion Dublin on commentary.

Edited June 26 by HawkMan

[The Hallucinating Goose]

I'm taking in Ukraine v Belgium. Ukraine should be a couple up if it wasn't for poor final decisions in the box. They've had far more of the game and Belgium have done hardly anything at all.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I'm taking in Ukraine v Belgium. Ukraine should be a couple up if it wasn't for poor final decisions in the box. They've had far more of the game and Belgium have done hardly anything at all.

And as things stand, Ukraine will end up going home with 4pts! 

[HawkMan]

Thunderstorm hits Slovakia Romania game, torrential rain. One mistake on the pitch and loser will be out, Slovakia on top.

[Gerrumonside ref]

The format is a joke and must be changed back to a 16 or 32 team competition 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

51 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And as things stand, Ukraine will end up going home with 4pts! 

And they have done. Such a flawed system. Really hard luck for Ukraine that.

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

And they have done. Such a flawed system. Really hard luck for Ukraine that.

Got to go to 32 teams for me if you’re going to have a last 16.

[HawkMan]

Slovakia 1 Romania 1

From what I can gather I made the right choice of game. Plenty of endeavour,  Slovakia better team,  and possibly England's next opponent depending on group F tonight. Tottenham' s Dragusin had good game, and yes partly why I chose to watch this game.

Edited June 26 by HawkMan

[The Hallucinating Goose]

2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Got to go to 32 teams for me if you’re going to have a last 16.

The only other way I can think of doing a 24 team competition would be for the 4 best placed 3rd OR 4th placed teams to go through. I know that would potentially mean all 4 teams from one group going through but it would at least mean that you would actually get the 4 next best teams rather than a better team going out simply because the other teams in their group got more points that teams in other groups, if you get my meaning.

[HawkMan]

Alternatively,  24 teams, 6 groups of 4, top 2 through to round 2. Second round, 4 groups of 3 , winners through to semis.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

If Czechia don't win tonight then 2 teams on 3 points will go through and yet Ukraine on 4 points won't. Stupid.

[HawkMan]

19 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

If Czechia don't win tonight then 2 teams on 3 points will go through and yet Ukraine on 4 points won't. Stupid.

Don't think you can look at other groups like that. Switzerland in  qualifiers  got 17 pts, Finland and Kazakhstan got 18 and didn't make it. You just have to do what you have to in your own group.

Edited June 26 by HawkMan

[HawkMan]

Okay decision time again, what to watch?

Portugal are through as group winners, it's unlikely Georgia will win, so I'll start with Czechia and Turkey. If I hear Georgia are winning I'll switch over.

Edited June 26 by HawkMan

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

16 really is too small for the Euros now though - and 32 would make it just a little bit ridiculous.

There must be something better format-wise but football would be unlikely to ever move from having standard groups of 4.

I know, I'd love to see a 20 team tournament where each teams plays 4 times but you just know they never would.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Okay decision time again, what to watch?

Portugal are through as group winners, it's unlikely Georgia will win, so I'll start with Czechia and Turkey. If I hear Georgia are winning I'll switch over.

Yeh Czechia-Turkey it is in my house.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

14 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Yeh Czechia-Turkey it is in my house.

Yep, also Czechia v Turkey in the Goose household.