Nick Gregson - Widnes/Swinton bad blood

[welshmagpie]

We know these print outs and target tactics are very common in rugby league but I sense Gregson’s sentiments will ring true in many of our part time players’ ears on a note of: why do we actually bother?

[RigbyLuger]

Wonder if one of his former team mates, annoyed at that, sent him the picture. Didn't notice the noose until he pointed it out.

[Spidey]

Hmmm…. As much as that sounds distasteful from Swinton, sounds like the player is carrying an injury. Have Widnes conditioned him enough for a game if RL?

[welshmagpie]

8 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Wonder if one of his former team mates, annoyed at that, sent him the picture. Didn't notice the noose until he pointed it out.

.

Edited July 7, 2024 by welshmagpie

[Griff]

A step too far for me.

[LeytherRob]

33 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Hmmm…. As much as that sounds distasteful from Swinton, sounds like the player is carrying an injury. Have Widnes conditioned him enough for a game if RL?

That's a pretty daft comment to make, large numbers of players play through injuries and pain most weeks accross all leagues and it's very common for those with shoulder issues to have recurring injuries. To deliberately call for your players to target and injure and opposition player is absolutely outrageous and should be met with strict measures from the RFL.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

That's a pretty daft comment to make, large numbers of players play through injuries and pain most weeks accross all leagues and it's very common for those with shoulder issues to have recurring injuries. To deliberately call for your players to target and injure and opposition player is absolutely outrageous and should be met with strict measures from the RFL.

Clubs have duty of care for their players and they shouldn’t be playing them injured.   I’m just saying there culpability on both sides here how much for either side is up for debate I guess 

[LeytherRob]

10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Clubs have duty of care for their players and they shouldn’t be playing them injured.   I’m just saying there culpability on both sides here how much for either side is up for debate I guess 

When's the last time you saw a game of professional rugby league where there wasn't a single player strapped up in some way? Again, it's an incredibly daft and ridiculous comment to be trying to shift blame even partially onto Widnes against a club/coach that put a picture of an opposition player with a noose around his neck in the changing room and was heard by multiple fans shouting during the game for his players to target Gregsons shoulder. 

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

When's the last time you saw a game of professional rugby league where there wasn't a single player strapped up in some way? Again, it's an incredibly daft and ridiculous comment to be trying to shift blame even partially onto Widnes against a club/coach that put a picture of an opposition player with a noose around his neck in the changing room and was heard by multiple fans shouting during the game for his players to target Gregsons shoulder. 

Question is was he injured by an illegal play? If so there’s grounds for disciplinary action etc.  If Swinton have just targeted him for more work in defence for instance in a game knowing his weakness that’s a bit different.  I did say in my original post that it is distasteful from Swinton, however I’m also okay with with having a pop at my club if they have put one of the players in a vulnerable position

[The Phantom Horseman]

25 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Clubs have duty of care for their players and they shouldn’t be playing them injured.   I’m just saying there culpability on both sides here how much for either side is up for debate I guess 

Strong "very fine people on both sides" vibes about that. Come on, what is being alleged is appalling if true and in no way comparable to the issue of players playing whilst carrying knocks. Complete false equivalence.

Widnes have responded:

 

[The Phantom Horseman]

Swinton's response.

 

[Colin James]

No need for the noose. Very disrespectful towards a player who gave great service to the Lions. Not sure what they're trying to achieve with that and I can see why it has upset him.

That said, picking out players to target is just part of any game. If you know a player isn't fully fit I see no issue in exploiting that by running at his right side rather than his left for example. Is that any different to chipping in behind a player who is limping and seeing if they're able to run back? As long as the players are targeting a weakness within the laws of the game and without resorting to foul play I'm not sure there's much to complain about on that front. If the targeting falls outside the laws of the game then the referee can take action.

[OriginalMrC]

Strange statement from Swinton. Could have just said 'we're aware of the allegations and will work with the RFL for any enquiries they have'. That would have been a much classier response if it's not true like they say.

[Worzel]

16 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Swinton's response.

 

Disgusting response. There are a number of witnesses now coming forward to what the Swinton coaches were shouting during the game, specific instructions to target and injure his shoulder, and the picture alone is bad enough. A noose? Disgraceful.

If they back the coaches over this then the culture of the entire club is rotten. 

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

[EagleEyePie]

I don't think the issue with this is necessarily the targeting of an injured player. This stuff does happen all the time. If a player looks hurt you run at them. If a player is carrying a bad shoulder you instruct your players to run at that shoulder and make them tackle as much as possible using it. You know there's a risk of an injury being aggravated in that situation.

For me the issue is obviously the picture with the noose around his neck. It's incredibly distasteful and a pretty poor look for the sport when something like this gets out. Presumably, for Nick to have seen it, someone must have sent it to him and you would assume the most likely person is a former teammate in the Swinton dressing room who also had issues with it.

It also then calls into question whether it's inciting a bit more than just targeting an injured player. Run at his left/right shoulder as much as you can is pretty much all you need to say to someone to target an injury. If you see an image like that and then hear accusations that a coach was instructing players to target an injury having just come away from a game with a serious injury I think you'd definitely suspect there was a bit more going.

I hope the injury isn't so bad that he misses the rest of the season.

[LeytherRob]

3 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

I don't think the issue with this is necessarily the targeting of an injured player. This stuff does happen all the time. If a player looks hurt you run at them. If a player is carrying a bad shoulder you instruct your players to run at that shoulder and make them tackle as much as possible using it. You know there's a risk of an injury being aggravated in that situation.

For me the issue is obviously the picture with the noose around his neck. It's incredibly distasteful and a pretty poor look for the sport when something like this gets out. Presumably, for Nick to have seen it, someone must have sent it to him and you would assume the most likely person is a former teammate in the Swinton dressing room who also had issues with it.

It also then calls into question whether it's inciting a bit more than just targeting an injured player. Run at his left/right shoulder as much as you can is pretty much all you need to say to someone to target an injury. If you see an image like that and then hear accusations that a coach was instructing players to target an injury having just come away from a game with a serious injury I think you'd definitely suspect there was a bit more going.

I hope the injury isn't so bad that he misses the rest of the season.

Yes its one thing to exploit an injury to your advantage, but another thing to go out with intent to injure somone. This isnt the 80s anymore and that sort of mentality has no place in sport.

Widnes looked to have picked up 6 injuries today according to James Gordon, which normally I would say is unfortunate but comes with the territory. Does look more dodgy when you have a coach allegedly telling his players to go injure people though, particularly when one of those injured had his picture up in the dressing room with a noose. Considering the picture Adam Lawton has posted, I'd be interested to see the rest of that picture Gregson posted to see if any other players were on there.

[Griff]

9 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Swinton's response.

 

It's not libellous if it's true, of course.

[Neutralfan7]

Hope they throw the book at the coach and the club... Disgusting behaviour 

[Expatknight]

Absolutely disgusting, there is no place for this in Rugby League, it is not sport.

deliberately trying to injure a player is appalling and you leave yourself wide open to allegations of assault, which it is, and  if the player is subsequently injured and unable to ply their trade you could also be liable to civil damages. Apart from all that it is just wrong and if true the Coach and club should be held accountable.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

Absolutely disgusting, there is no place for this in Rugby League, it is not sport.

deliberately trying to injure a player is appalling and you leave yourself wide open to allegations of assault, which it is, and  if the player is subsequently injured and unable to ply their trade you could also be liable to civil damages. Apart from all that it is just wrong and if true the Coach and club should be held accountable.

Targeting an injured player is different than deliberately trying to injure someone. No one would condone injuring someone on purpose.

If someone is playing with an injury that is serious enough that they don't want teams to exploit it then they shouldn't be stepping in the pitch at all.

[Bull Mania]

Awful stuff from Swinton. 

Stuff will get said in changing rooms. RL is a physical tough sport and you need to get your players revved up, otherwise they themselves will get hurt. 

The "bully-him" part is OK in a playing context, but the noose is vile. 

[The Phantom Horseman]

I think the reaction of some current and former players on Gregson's thread tells us that this sort of thing isn't normal or widespread practice. Guys like Dale Ferguson and Richard Moore have expressed shock at the post and I don't think either of those two would be described as overly-sensitive.

[OriginalMrC]

Sorry guys but some of you saying targeting an injured player is part of the game is simply not true. Its not normal for players to be sent out to injure other players or target specific areas where someone has had an injury.

The Swinton coach will have known from working with the player that he'd had previous injuries and had purposely told his players to target specific body parts. That's not normal behaviour at all. 

[The Blues Ox]

Think this is a very fine line here. As above there really is no issue with targeting a player on the pitch who you know is carrying an injury infact any team that didn't do that if they thought it could gain them an advantage is pretty dumb. That said there is a massive difference between going out of your way to injure someone and it is going to be very easy to prove what has been said and in what context with the video and audio from the game. As I said though its such a fine line, you will hear things like hurt them or make them feel it shouted from the dug outs all the time and again in my eyes thats a big difference to shouting about a specific injury and testing it by giving it a pull.

As for the dressing room stuff that is a lot more grim and Swinton as a club will obviously have been aware that this has been happening but have for whatever reason chose to ignore it, if they say otherwise then they are lying. No issue again with those type of "cheat sheets"  or the "Bully Him" type of messages on them and any coach worth his salt is doing research on opposition players but the noose around the neck? That crosses a line and although it might be seen as dressing room talk or banter its really too much and Swinton obviosuly have at least one player who is not happy with his coach for this dressing room "code of conduct" to be breached.