GB to replace England?

[Gomersall]

Heading for the Cross Code forum lads.

[corkonian77]

28 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Heading for the Cross Code forum lads.

I don't have  access to that. 

[Gomersall]

27 minutes ago, corkonian77 said:

I don't have  access to that. 

Then we need to get back on track.

[Welshleaguelover]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

My suspicions realised it seems. When is that scheduled? I assume it forms part of a wider home series for GB/I? Are they hosting one nation or more?

Have GB/I ever played a non-touring match? I though that was it’s USP.

In Union it is a huge brand and especially since the tour to Aus in 2001, the Lions have upped their financial demands of SANZAR nations to secure a Lions Tour, to the point government support comes into play.

They played Argentina in Cardiff before the 2005 tour.

[RP London]

On 19/07/2024 at 17:40, Sports Prophet said:

Great post. My only major disagreement is the “players wanting to play for England becuase the chance of winning the world cup is higher” comment.

As long as those nations are in with a shot, I think the players play for the non-English nation. Otherwise, well then they feel more English and will represent England. My theory is supported as we have seen many Pacific Islanders demonstrate a preference to play for their heritage over the opportunity of representing Aus or NZ and a higher likelihood of winning a WC.

While I understand your point, and could see it coming when I wrote my piece the thing is that, while I cant talk for everyone, that link back to the "heritage" nation is not as strong as with the pacific islands and those nations wont get strong enough to be in with a shout they will just be stronger. Scotland and Ireland still never really looked in with a shot when this was done before, and this is where i struggle with the concept a bit, we have done this before and we have seen the results. 

If we want GB as a touring team every so often then the cries of "its England rebadged" will dog it for the foreseeable, and rightly so.

If we play as GB all the time, then I can live with that. There is flexibility then underneath to manufacture the home nations etc .

If we play as GB all but the world cup then IMHO it gets to being a but like GB touring team every so often. What are people building towards, how do we build the "brand" around the national team as we just don't play enough games to make this work. We are weakening the chances of a northern hemisphere team winning the world cup. 

For me I just dont see the point of changing what we are doing now. At some point we do have to understand that without the work on the ground (which we cannot afford) expansion in scotland and ireland is almost impossible.

Edited July 23 by RP London

[The British Lion]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

While I understand your point, and could see it coming when I wrote my piece the thing is that, while I cant talk for everyone, that link back to the "heritage" nation is not as strong as with the pacific islands and those nations wont get strong enough to be in with a shout they will just be stronger. Scotland and Ireland still never really looked in with a shot when this was done before, and this is where i struggle with the concept a bit, we have done this before and we have seen the results. 

If we want GB as a touring team every so often then the cries of "its England rebadged" will dog it for the foreseeable, and rightly so.

If we play as GB all the time, then I can live with that. There is flexibility then underneath to manufacture the home nations etc .

If we play as GB all but the world cup then IMHO it gets to being a but like GB touring team every so often. What are people building towards, how do we build the "brand" around the national team as we just don't play enough games to make this work. We are weakening the chances of a northern hemisphere team winning the world cup. 

For me I just dont see the point of changing what we are doing now. At some point we do have to understand that without the work on the ground (which we cannot afford) expansion in scotland and ireland is almost impossible.

I agree. I'd like to see the RFL's reasoning and strategy behind a return to GB.

Is there place for a home nations mid season tournament for example? With heritage players from SH to play for Wales/Ireland etc....wait....with a strategy to grow home grown players across the next 10-20 years? (I know likely not) 

Or is it just slap the GB brand back on because we know our England brand is ######?

Just have a long term strategy and plan and stick to it!

[crashmon]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

While I understand your point, and could see it coming when I wrote my piece the thing is that, while I cant talk for everyone, that link back to the "heritage" nation is not as strong as with the pacific islands and those nations wont get strong enough to be in with a shout they will just be stronger. Scotland and Ireland still never really looked in with a shot when this was done before, and this is where i struggle with the concept a bit, we have done this before and we have seen the results. 

If we want GB as a touring team every so often then the cries of "its England rebadged" will dog it for the foreseeable, and rightly so.

If we play as GB all the time, then I can live with that. There is flexibility then underneath to manufacture the home nations etc .

If we play as GB all but the world cup then IMHO it gets to being a but like GB touring team every so often. What are people building towards, how do we build the "brand" around the national team as we just don't play enough games to make this work. We are weakening the chances of a northern hemisphere team winning the world cup. 

For me I just dont see the point of changing what we are doing now. At some point we do have to understand that without the work on the ground (which we cannot afford) expansion in scotland and ireland is almost impossible.

Your not going to get people from wales, scotland, Ireland interested in a GB brand if its just filled with England players.  As then its not GB, its england in another name.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

14 minutes ago, The British Lion said:

I agree. I'd like to see the RFL's reasoning and strategy behind a return to GB.

Is there place for a home nations mid season tournament for example? With heritage players from SH to play for Wales/Ireland etc....wait....with a strategy to grow home grown players across the next 10-20 years? (I know likely not) 

Or is it just slap the GB brand back on because we know our England brand is ######?

Just have a long term strategy and plan and stick to it!

I think it's more that they've given up investing in the home nations as possible opponents for England, so to at least get a few of them interested in watching internationals (with a caveat of a token pathway for their players) they just want to tag them on to the England team.

If they're not going to invest in international rugby league beyond hoping to play Southern nations, then they might as well. I'd rather they play under the GB brand in that case. 

I would much rather they actually put interest into the home nations by at least organising relevant fixtures though. 

[RP London]

44 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Your not going to get people from wales, scotland, Ireland interested in a GB brand if its just filled with England players.  As then its not GB, its england in another name.

Which is the point I'm making with the "tour as GB and its England under a different name".. which I think is pointless. If we just admit that we go out as GB as the main team to represent RL then I dont think that matters so much, it is representative of the game. 

Either way, your post still points to the point I think we are all making which is that this is just fiddling around the edges and that it will not make the blindest bit of difference to the development of other nations without serious funding underneath it in those nations. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 hours ago, crashmon said:

Your not going to get people from wales, scotland, Ireland interested in a GB brand if its just filled with England players.  As then its not GB, its england in another name.

Isn't there a Welsh poster on this thread who indicated that they would be interested in watching a GB team? The flip argument is that you're definitely not going to get any Welsh, Scottish or Irish people supporting England! And as it stands there's zero meaningful, high profile competition for any of those home nations in the pipeline, so very little opportunity to get any supporters engaged.

It does look as though the powers-that-be are essentially giving up on any sort of meaningful international programme for those nations. The whole thing is a very sorry state of affairs.

[Damien]

3 hours ago, crashmon said:

Your not going to get people from wales, scotland, Ireland interested in a GB brand if its just filled with England players.  As then its not GB, its england in another name.

Yeah, people aren't daft and know the difference.

In my experience people who like RL generally want England to do well and watch them as they are 'their' players, for want of a better word, and SL is the competition they follow. As you say GB doesn't kid anyone, people know it's just England by another name.

[The 4 of Us]

3 hours ago, The British Lion said:

I agree. I'd like to see the RFL's reasoning and strategy behind a return to GB.

Is there place for a home nations mid season tournament for example? With heritage players from SH to play for Wales/Ireland etc....wait....with a strategy to grow home grown players across the next 10-20 years? (I know likely not) 

Or is it just slap the GB brand back on because we know our England brand is ######?

Just have a long term strategy and plan and stick to it!

RFL, strategy and reasoning all in once sentence.

Definition of an oxymoron.

[Dave T]

I'm not sure the GB team being full of English lads is such an issue tbh. I don't think that is the reason that people in Scotland don't watch international RL. It's because we don't really offer them any high quality international RL. 

But there is an argument that if you are like my wife and a fair few of my mates, that you would get behind GB in an Ashes series whereas it is less likely that you'd follow England in an Ashes. Now the reason I don't think it's that big a deal either way, is because I think we are talking such small numbers because we make no effort. 

But I don't think the nationality of the players is a big deal, in the same way I will whole-heartedly get behind the Olympic Curling team despite it being a largely niche Scottish team representing GB. 

I think only Wales is the slightly challenging one, but I expect a fair few Welsh have supported the GB RL team over the years. 

[MatthewWoody]

After the 2019 I believe the GB "brand" is compromised

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

After the 2019 I believe the GB "brand" is compromised

Most people blinked and missed it tbh. 

 

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure the GB team being full of English lads is such an issue tbh. I don't think that is the reason that people in Scotland don't watch international RL. It's because we don't really offer them any high quality international RL. 

But there is an argument that if you are like my wife and a fair few of my mates, that you would get behind GB in an Ashes series whereas it is less likely that you'd follow England in an Ashes. Now the reason I don't think it's that big a deal either way, is because I think we are talking such small numbers because we make no effort. 

But I don't think the nationality of the players is a big deal, in the same way I will whole-heartedly get behind the Olympic Curling team despite it being a largely niche Scottish team representing GB. 

I think only Wales is the slightly challenging one, but I expect a fair few Welsh have supported the GB RL team over the years. 

You’d probably get behind the GB curling team if they were doing well. Otherwise, meh. England, let alone GB, just don’t play enough games to engage with.

[Dave T]

48 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

You’d probably get behind the GB curling team if they were doing well. Otherwise, meh. England, let alone GB, just don’t play enough games to engage with.

Well we do have to hope that GB would be able to win some games. 

[welshmagpie]

5 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Isn't there a Welsh poster on this thread who indicated that they would be interested in watching a GB team? The flip argument is that you're definitely not going to get any Welsh, Scottish or Irish people supporting England! And as it stands there's zero meaningful, high profile competition for any of those home nations in the pipeline, so very little opportunity to get any supporters engaged.

It does look as though the powers-that-be are essentially giving up on any sort of meaningful international programme for those nations. The whole thing is a very sorry state of affairs.

Back in 2019 I bought a GB top and vest, wore it proudly - wouldn’t ever do such a thing for an England one though I do lend my support them internationally in support of ‘our game/Super League’

 

[corkonian77]

20 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

After the 2019 I believe the GB "brand" is compromised

Yes after the disaster  of 2019 I can't understand why this idea is back.

Very little  has changed other than the Ireland,  Scotland  and Wales  not playing  games since World  Cup.

 

[MatthewWoody]

3 hours ago, corkonian77 said:

Yes after the disaster  of 2019 I can't understand why this idea is back.

Very little  has changed other than the Ireland,  Scotland  and Wales  not playing  games since World  Cup.

 

They even made a BBC documentary about it

[Hopie]

https://www.research.net/r/GBFANRESEARCH

Tell them what you think

[Jack GB]

4 minutes ago, Hopie said:

https://www.research.net/r/GBFANRESEARCH

Tell them what you think

I filled this out as soon as it hit my email... it's just so amateur - this is meant to be NEXT YEAR and they're asking me if i would be more likely to travel if it's Eng or GB. To the other side of the world!!

We should have all the details of dates, stadiums, times etc already not deciding which team we will be sending! 

i would love to travel to Oz for an Ashes but if i don't have some ideas soon on dates and cities where hopefully england will play its going to be very difficult to go to be honest 

 

 

 

Edited July 29 by Jack GB

[Odsal Outlaw]

50 minutes ago, Hopie said:

https://www.research.net/r/GBFANRESEARCH

Tell them what you think

Thanks for sharing that! Completed it and filled in the comments box at length!

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

https://www.research.net/r/GBFANRESEARCH

Tell them what you think

In true RL survey fashion this seems awfully loaded. Weird not to ask the same questions regarding England as the GB specific ones.

[tiffers]

1 hour ago, Jack GB said:

I filled this out as soon as it hit my email... it's just so amateur - this is meant to be NEXT YEAR and they're asking me if i would be more likely to travel if it's Eng or GB. To the other side of the world!!

We should have all the details of dates, stadiums, times etc already not deciding which team we will be sending! 

i would love to travel to Oz for an Ashes but if i don't have some ideas soon on dates and cities where hopefully england will play its going to be very difficult to go to be honest 

 

 

 

100%!!