Is it even the same sport?

[Anita Bath]

3 hours ago, johnh1 said:

Skill, speed, brilliant attacking rugby, some outstanding defence, excitement, passion, young up and coming players, older, more experienced players, a bit of biff. What more do you want GJ?

That nicely sums up last weekends rochdale v oldham game.

[welshmagpie]

9 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Have to say that is what I was thinking 

There has been some brilliant SL games recently 

I enjoy both ....we all should 

The standard of Super League has improved drastically in the last 3-5 years, it’s great to see. The young players coming through are especially of an increased standard. 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

There are two debates here- short term and long term. 

In the long term we need more junior players. Debate (as with all sports) between wider participation and ruthlessly focusing on those with talent.

Short term we can make numerous improvements over player behaviour and speed up video refereeing by at least 50%, 

[Archie Gordon]

The NRL has some advantages - games played to bigger looking crowds, much better presentation, and genuine world-class talent in every team.

But I find that the top end of SL is just as good as the NRL in terms of entertainment. Indeed, for me, there is no better RL TV product than a play-off game at Catalan. I hope we get one this year.

And I prefer our refs on the whole. 

[crashmon]

15 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

yesterday I watched last weekends broncos v bulldogs game on catch up - a crowd of over 40,000 - fantastic coverage from fox sports - end to end non stop action - full of momentum, intensity  and breathtaking skills and action - hardly noticed the bunker and hardly noticed the ref either everything RL  should be 

compare that to the fayre been served up by sky/bbc and the SL - errors - stoppages - penalties - more stoppages -more pedantic penalties - no momentum endless boring dull video ref decisions that see seasons come and seasons go before they decide on the outcome

was hard to compare the NRL  game as even the same sport as SL! - Whats gone wrong with our version?

NRL == NFL, English Prem, NBA, Champions League
SL == League 2, Scottish League football

 

[Lowdesert]

15 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

yesterday I watched last weekends broncos v bulldogs game on catch up - a crowd of over 40,000 - fantastic coverage from fox sports - end to end non stop action - full of momentum, intensity  and breathtaking skills and action - hardly noticed the bunker and hardly noticed the ref either everything RL  should be 

compare that to the fayre been served up by sky/bbc and the SL - errors - stoppages - penalties - more stoppages -more pedantic penalties - no momentum endless boring dull video ref decisions that see seasons come and seasons go before they decide on the outcome

was hard to compare the NRL  game as even the same sport as SL! - Whats gone wrong with our version?

Seemed to be the same sport when they played the WCC earlier this year.

[crashmon]

To me the biggest gap is the depth. We have a few teams (3 or 4) who could compete with the NRL teams, but then the falloff is much larger than in the NRL. We just do not have the depth of talent available.

Its a bit like scottish football, Rangers and Celtic would be lower half english premiership teams, but the rest would not even get into championship or even league 1.  SL is a bit like that compared to the NRL.

Rangers could beat Man City in a one off game, but over a season would be a long way behind. So you can't really take the WCC as an example

[johnh1]

9 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

That nicely sums up last weekends rochdale v oldham game.

Don't tell Graveyard Johnny. He will have a melt down.

[JDR]

Couple of observations from a very occasional viewer of NRL.

Re: Penalties - current NRL interpretations seem to allow more high contact than is currently allowed in SL, could this contribute to seeing less penalties in NRL?

As the 2nd to top sport there does always seem to be a big buzz around NRL matches, regardless of whether the standard is actually higher than SL.

[Dunbar]

There has been a trend in the NRL towards a more open and attack oriented competition.

This has been accelerated recently with the clampdown on contact will full backs collecting the ball, contact on any passer after delivery (even if they have ‘dug into’ the line), and contact with kickers.

These changes allowed for the emergence of a generation of players who may not have been first choice in a more physical age as they are relatively slight but they have significant skills, particularly pace and footwork.

Just look at the last 29 matches in the NRL (including today’s game):

On average across those 29 matches, 48 points have been scored and there are just 3 games with an aggregate score of less than 30 points (none with less than 20 points scored).

At the other end of the scale, we have seen two 70+ matches, another four 60+ and seven 50+ matches.  That means that of the 29 matches, 13 of them (44%) had more than 50 points scored.

The NRL today is a playground for attacking players with only the finals the time when defences shine and we see the likes of Penrith grinding out the wins when it matters.

[dkw]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

There has been a trend in the NRL towards a more open and attack oriented competition.

This has been accelerated recently with the clampdown on contact will full backs collecting the ball, contact on any passer after delivery (even if they have ‘dug into’ the line), and contact with kickers.

These changes allowed for the emergence of a generation of players who may not have been first choice in a more physical age as they are relatively slight but they have significant skills, particularly pace and footwork.

Just look at the last 29 matches in the NRL (including today’s game):

On average across those 29 matches, 48 points have been scored and there are just 3 games with an aggregate score of less than 30 points (none with less than 20 points scored).

At the other end of the scale, we have seen two 70+ matches, another four 60+ and seven 50+ matches.  That means that of the 29 matches, 13 of them (44%) had more than 50 points scored.

The NRL today is a playground for attacking players with only the finals the time when defences shine and we see the likes of Penrith grinding out the wins when it matters.

It does amuse me that the play the ball in the NRL is basically how we had it in SL a few years ago, majority don't have any contact with the foot, or even an attempt to. Yet it's not seen as a terrible thing like it was over here,weird that.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

It does amuse me that the play the ball in the NRL is basically how we had it in SL a few years ago, majority don't have any contact with the foot, or even an attempt to. Yet it's not seen as a terrible thing like it was over here,weird that.

Yes, it has deteriorated rapidly over the last 12 months or so.  Personally I hate it but, as you say, not picked up in commentary. 

What I don't know is the reaction at the fan level as I don't access the Australian fan forums.

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Yes, it has deteriorated rapidly over the last 12 months or so.  Personally I hate it but, as you say, not picked up in commentary. 

What I don't know is the reaction at the fan level as I don't access the Australian fan forums.

Mildly entertaining thread on L.U. last year titled "Nelson Salmonella play the balls".

[graveyard johnny]

cas v leigh- its the bloke who does the darts and the monotone NZ woman - 1st penalty blown within 50 seconds

 

[Wakefield Ram]

On 31/07/2024 at 18:07, Pigeon Lofter said:

Where to begin?

For some reason, the pro game here has evolved into something more akin to a wrestling match, with three or four tacklers overpowering an attacking player, throwing him to the floor, then lying on top so the other tacklers can reform a defensive line. Teams are suffering by losing injured players like never before, some having to stock their team with academy youths or local amateurs, and skill levels are down. It's getting too brutal, many players cannot make it through a season now because their bodies cannot take the punishment that the RFL and referees think is acceptable. Teams struggle to get 17 names on the team sheet, FFS. 

Back in the day, a tackle was called when forward progress was halted, not when someone had the living daylights knocked out of him by five guys throwing him around like a rag doll before the referee eventually called "held". We used to watch a game of rugby, not guys getting beaten up by a mob of opponents.The game was so much faster, play the balls were instant as the marker dropped away and wasn't pushing down on the opponents head which referees turn a blind eye to these days.

Video refs seem to forget that RL is a spectator sport, not a forensic investigation. 

We need more skills and less brutality, too many of our stars are injured and it's the way the game is refereed over here, the emphasis is on battering seven bells out of opponents, and it's no surprise that their bodies cannot cope with the hammering they get week in and week out. So we end up with lower quality players in teams, which isn't attractive to viewers who pay the wages. 

Lying on at the tackled player just makes the game slower and less interesting to watch.

Why it's allowed is baffling. 

[Pigeon Lofter]

39 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Lying on at the tackled player just makes the game slower and less interesting to watch.

Why it's allowed is baffling. 

Yes, it is. 

Union made it a penalty offence when players didn't roll away immediately after a tackle was made, we might learn something from them here.

The hands-on, pushing the head and shoulders of the player in possession even though he is back on his feet,  and lying on after the ruck could easily be penalised but our referees must be under instructions to pretend it's not happening, and so it continues. Liam Farrell was the worst example of this, maybe he has tidied his game up but it made me switch the channel over when he held up the PTB until his players were lined up at which point he got back on his feet. 

I thought referees forensically go through all the SL games on replay the following week, so they know it happens, but looks like they don't give a monkeys even though it spoils the game from a spectator point of view.

Who wants to watch a game where the laws are optional?

 

[corvusxiii]

May well be missing/ignoring many of the points being made here but slow ugly tedious PTBs add nothing to the game as a spectacle irrespective of how well they are done, imo. Random penalties similarly dilute the narrative. Personally I prefer to be entertained by a game than..... be impressed by some excellent standard of play but that's just me. 

[Dunbar]

Two more high scoring NRL games this morning with 50 and then 74 points scored.

Sam Walker showing all his talents, distribution, running, and at least 3 chip and chases for himself (2 were tries).

The benefit of a slight young player having the confidence to play knowing he would get smashed to pieces late or off the ball.

The NRL is in a state of rapid transition.

[unapologetic pedant]

16 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

Yes, it is. 

Union made it a penalty offence when players didn't roll away immediately after a tackle was made, we might learn something from them here.

Do we want games littered with penalties and 6-agains, to the point where we're effectively playing unlimited possession?

I agree the ruck should be quicker than it currently is, but there is a trade-off. Union defenders don't have to get in at marker or retire 10 metres.

"Once a player in possession has been tackled it is illegal for any player to move or try to move them from the point where the tackle is effected"

Strict enforcement of the above and instructions on release ought to suffice.

Crude objections to "lying on" fail to distinguish working on the ground from attempts to spin round into marker. Similarly, all the wittering about "wrestling" misrepresents pre-completion control of the tackle.

Ball-carriers should have to earn the right to play the ball quickly. Automatic instant rewards for every play, irrespective of quality, is not the way to improve standards.

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Two more high scoring NRL games this morning with 50 and then 74 points scored.

Sam Walker showing all his talents, distribution, running, and at least 3 chip and chases for himself (2 were tries).

The benefit of a slight young player having the confidence to play knowing he would get smashed to pieces late or off the ball.

The NRL is in a state of rapid transition.

My 19 year old loves the NRL and certain players Reece Walsh etc,watches matches on the App at Uni he says his mates also love it.

For them it's NBA on steroids.

As far as SL is concerned no interest outside of watching 2/3 matches at the Dragons on holidays.

Took him to Broncos v Tigers 3 weeks ago and he just wanted to go home.

That's sadly the perception.

We have a massive image problem 

Paul

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

20 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

My 19 year old loves the NRL and certain players Reece Walsh etc,watches matches on the App at Uni he says his mates also love it.

For them it's NBA on steroids.

As far as SL is concerned no interest outside of watching 2/3 matches at the Dragons on holidays.

Took him to Broncos v Tigers 3 weeks ago and he just wanted to go home.

That's sadly the perception.

We have a massive image problem 

Paul

It's not just an image thing - people can tell whether they're watching supreme athletes or not. Unfortunately, the vast majority of players in this country come from a very small pool. We're way down the pecking order behind football, cricket and probably RU in terms of attracting the best quality athletes to play our game. We're probably behind basketball and American Football as well, because youngsters associate those sports with the NBA and NFL and consequently they are 'cool' sports to play. Living in a non-heartlands area, I hear more people talking about NRL than I do Super League. You only have to flick on any NRL game and there will be at least a couple of freakish athletes on show who can produce some highlight reel stuff. We just don't have anywhere near enough of those players in SL, and it's obvious even to the casual viewer.

[ATLANTISMAN]

12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It's not just an image thing - people can tell whether they're watching supreme athletes or not. Unfortunately, the vast majority of players in this country come from a very small pool. We're way down the pecking order behind football, cricket and probably RU in terms of attracting the best quality athletes to play our game. We're probably behind basketball and American Football as well, because youngsters associate those sports with the NBA and NFL and consequently they are 'cool' sports to play. Living in a non-heartlands area, I hear more people talking about NRL than I do Super League. You only have to flick on any NRL game and there will be at least a couple of freakish athletes on show who can produce some highlight reel stuff. We just don't have anywhere near enough of those players in SL, and it's obvious even to the casual viewer.

Agree 100%

[corvusxiii]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Do we want games littered with penalties and 6-agains, to the point where we're effectively playing unlimited possession?

I agree the ruck should be quicker than it currently is, but there is a trade-off. Union defenders don't have to get in at marker or retire 10 metres.

"Once a player in possession has been tackled it is illegal for any player to move or try to move them from the point where the tackle is effected"

Strict enforcement of the above and instructions on release ought to suffice.

Crude objections to "lying on" fail to distinguish working on the ground from attempts to spin round into marker. Similarly, all the wittering about "wrestling" misrepresents pre-completion control of the tackle.

Ball-carriers should have to earn the right to play the ball quickly. Automatic instant rewards for every play, irrespective of quality, is not the way to improve standards.

Struggling on the 'earning the right' thing. To me it's earning the right to be entertaining!?! There's an optimum point of course but this isn't it for me.

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

My 19 year old loves the NRL and certain players Reece Walsh etc,watches matches on the App at Uni he says his mates also love it.

For them it's NBA on steroids.

As far as SL is concerned no interest outside of watching 2/3 matches at the Dragons on holidays.

Took him to Broncos v Tigers 3 weeks ago and he just wanted to go home.

That's sadly the perception.

We have a massive image problem 

Paul

That's an interesting analogy.

I can think of nothing worse than Rugby League being NBA on steroids. Seeing as though basketball is officially a non contact sport.

Matches that finish with 50, 60, 70 points scored are never entertaining for me. I always find myself drifting away.

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

That's an interesting analogy.

I can think of nothing worse than Rugby League being NBA on steroids. Seeing as though basketball is officially a non contact sport.

Matches that finish with 50, 60, 70 points scored are never entertaining for me. I always find myself drifting away.

A recent survey of teenagers in New Zealand listed their Top 3 sports as.

NRL

NBA

English Premiership Soccer