Britain's best sports person

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's rather my point.

I've just googled him and to be fair, I wouldn't recognise any Basketball player

[JonM]

And going back to the original question, would be hard to argue that Murray was greater than Fred Perry, if you're just looking at British Tennis players, unless I missed Murray getting a grand slam and being world number one for several years.

[JonM]

1 minute ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

I've just googled him and to be fair, I wouldn't recognise any Basketball player

I once had to explain to American colleagues at work that the only slightly famous American Basketball player was Lemon out of the Harlem Globetrotters. He's been dead for nearly a decade...

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, JonM said:

I guess there is no NFL or NBA player who would be recognised by more than a small minority of people in Britain. 

Calzaghe & McCoy (as examples) won BBC sports personality of the year, and have clearly had a pretty high profile in the past, but equally I'm 100% certain that my wife and both of my twenty-something kids would have no clue who they were, what sport they were involved with, or what they had done. People like Ian Botham, Lewis Hamilton, Mo Farah, Paula Radcliffe would be recognised by almost everyone, I reckon. 

Of course, that doesn't necessarily correlate with 'best sports person' - I'd pick Jimmy Anderson over Ian Botham without needing a second's thought when it comes to Cricket, for example.

Remove the context from most famous people and you’re left with “don’t I know you from somewhere”!

I’d probably have Botham over Anderson but it’s different skills at different times so …

[HawkMan]

Okey dokey,  now I don't think for one moment that the person I'm going to suggest is the greatest sportsman, if you take into account achievements,  dedication,  sweat and tears and toil. But global recognition is another thing. A lot of people of a certain age  around the world if asked to name an iconic British sportsman would probably say David Beckham. Bizarre but if I'm being cynical,  possible. 

My choices- Andy Murray,  Steve Redgrave or Nick Faldo

Edited August 2 by HawkMan

[johnmatrix]

Is he even britains best tennis player....Fred Perry and virgina wade ahead of him

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

28 minutes ago, johnmatrix said:

Is he even britains best tennis player....Fred Perry and virgina wade ahead of him

Its unfair to compare todays tennis players with players pre 1969, when Perry played, he was dominant at grand slams but a lot of the top players were professional so were ineligible from playing Wimbledon, Roland Garos, US Open, Aus open, indeed, Perry turned pro in the late 1930s and although he had some success, he wasn't as dominant as when he was amateur, and I would back Murrays record against Virginia Wades any day.

[Maximus Decimus]

1 hour ago, johnmatrix said:

Which sports do you consider as a very popular widespread sport? 

It's not a science, but I'd include sports like football, tennis, athletics etc.

In opposition to this, you have sports like cricket and rugby which large swathes of the world don't really play at all seriously.

There has to be a weighting for how difficult that sport is to get to the top, which comes down to numbers of people that take it seriously.

I'm currently in Ireland and you could be the best GAA player of all time but the reality is you're playing a sport that only thousands have ever taken seriously. 

[bobbruce]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

He dragged Britain to a Davis Cup title as well. In American terms, you'd definitely have him in the Hall of Fame but you're unlikely to retire the number.

No one has suggested any rugby league players yet?

I would absolutely say Ellery Hanley is up there with the likes of Daley Thompson as britains best sportsman. It feels fairly pointless bringing him up in discussions like this as he would hardly get a mention in any national debate. 

[bigbaldnmad]

Can't have Lewis Hamilton. Invariably the guy with the best car wins, he was fortunate to be in the right car.

[tim2]

Which ones woud get into a "top 10" of alll time in sports watched or participated in in 20 or more countries?

Possibly Lewis Hamilton, Steve Redgrave, Lennox Lewis. Maybe Chris Hoy, Laura Kenny from cycling.

Then you are into the "exceptional" category, including people like Murray, who without the existence of Djoovic in particular, would have had double figure Grand Slams. Then the llikes of Daley Thompson, Jess Ennis, Mo Farah, Ian Botham, Elleray Hanley, Vince Karalius, Bobby Charlton, Paula Radcliffe, Jimmy Anderson etc. who have something extra that makes them stand out either by weight of statistics, or personality.

[Dunbar]

Personally, I would go with Sir Steve Redgrave.

To win Gold across 5 different Olympic games between 1984 and 2000 (and 9 World medals in between) in what is such a physically demanding sport demonstrated a huge amount of commitment and longevity.

[johnmatrix]

Suppose there's so many across different eras ots hard to say, murray will go down as one of our greatest tennis players but wouldn't make top 10 of all time in his sport. 

 

A few more who should be in with a mention of our greatest are from Football, Kevin keegan 2 x ballon d'or winner, athletcis seb coe, sailing ben ainslie and cycling mark Cavendish. 

 

 

[M j M]

Recency bias plays a huge part in why middle-rankers like Murray get mentioned in this sort of thing so we need to be a bit more realistic. Murray didn't dominate his sport at all, less still on a sustained basis, so he should be nowhere near such a list.

From our sport Ellery and let's say Albert Goldthorpe are probably the stand outs to me. Hamilton and Redgrave are others who spring to mind through sustained international excellence. I'm sure there are others from the less recent past that I'm not familiar with who had similar characteristics.

[Gerrumonside ref]

19 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Daley Thompson

I’m marking him down sadly after ‘Daley Thompson’s Decathlon” knackered a couple of joysticks back in the day through intensive wagging to get speed up!

Edited August 2 by Gerrumonside ref

[johnmatrix]

6 hours ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

Its unfair to compare todays tennis players with players pre 1969, when Perry played, he was dominant at grand slams but a lot of the top players were professional so were ineligible from playing Wimbledon, Roland Garos, US Open, Aus open, indeed, Perry turned pro in the late 1930s and although he had some success, he wasn't as dominant as when he was amateur, and I would back Murrays record against Virginia Wades any day.

Just had a check of wades record. Tbf she Matches up well with Murray 

Wade, 3 singles slams, us, aus and wimbledon, murray 3 also us, wimbledonx2

Wade 4 slam doubles, murray 0

Wade 55 singles titles, murray 46

Wade 5th all time in matches won, murray 14th all time  

Murray 2 Olympic golds, wade 0

[Industria ditat]

As a multi sports athlete, does CB Fry get a mention?

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

1 hour ago, johnmatrix said:

Just had a check of wades record. Tbf she Matches up well with Murray 

Wade, 3 singles slams, us, aus and wimbledon, murray 3 also us, wimbledonx2

Wade 4 slam doubles, murray 0

Wade 55 singles titles, murray 46

Wade 5th all time in matches won, murray 14th all time  

Murray 2 Olympic golds, wade 0

You can put an asterix against  Wade's Aus Open victory as not all the top players took part, in fact the Aus Open didn't really take off until the mid 1980s.

Murray hardly ever played doubles at slams, neither do the other top male players nowadays.

As I said before, Murray won 14 Masters titles, the next one down from slams , it looks like Wade won about 6 of the equivalent WTA tournaments(though its difficult to judge.

At his peak(2008-2016) it took a good player to beat Murray at Slams, he very rarely lost to a nobody, Wade had quite a few loses to random players.

Murray won the World Tour finals, Wade won non

Its unfair to judge on Olympic medals as tennis wasn't in the Olympics when Wade played,

Murray also won the Davis cup.

This isn't meant to belittle Wades achievements,

[Derwent]

This whole debate is one where there is no correct answer. You’d get a different answer based on different criteria.

For example, nobody has mentioned Denis Compton - in cricket he scored almost 39,000 first class runs and took over 600 wickets, playing 78 tests for England with 17 centuries (123 first class hundreds altogether) and had a test batting average of over 50. While at the same time playing First Division football for Arsenal where he gained winners medals for both the league title and FA Cup. He also played several times for England but never got a cap as they were unofficial wartime matches. But he never dominated a particular sport so isn’t considered.

[Red Willow]

10 hours ago, Moose said:

My top three in no particular order

Ian Botham, Lewis Hamilton, Ronnie O’Sullivan 

 

 

Sport not pub games

[GURNER]

22 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Lewis Hamilton. Joint most F1 World Championships, most wins, most pole positions, most podium finishes and dozens and dozens more records.

Silver spoon, F1 not a sport

[GURNER]

The manx missile for mine. Mark Cavendish.

[Shadow]

23 hours ago, Derwent said:

Joe Calzaghe

Jimmy Anderson

A P McCoy

 

13 hours ago, JonM said:

Suspect all three could walk down the average high street and not be recognised by 95%+ of people. 

I suspect Calzaghe would get more recognition from being on Strictly than from his boxing career 

[Maximus Decimus]

16 hours ago, Shadow said:

 

I suspect Calzaghe would get more recognition from being on Strictly than from his boxing career 

Whilst his career was incredible, it was marred a little by the fact he only fought the top Americans when they were clearly past their peaks. His best performance was probably the Jeff Lacy pummelling.

I'm a big Lennox fan, but am put off by his ambiguous nationality. When the idea is about the best sportsman we've produced, it doesn't feel right to include somebody who didn't box until they lived in Canada.

To give an opposite example with Mo Farah, he arrived here quite late but only got into running in British schools.

[Dunbar]

Based on how much he has achieved at such a tender age, young Jack Walker will surely be in the mix in the coming decades.