Whitehaven in financial trouble

[LeeF]

And today is the 76th Anniversary of Whitehaven’s first ever match which is slightly ironic if today sees the club fold.

Anyway to end on a slightly humorous note. They beat Hull that day 5-0 - cue jokes from the red and white side of Hull about nothing changing. 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

Enjoy my trips to Whitehaven, really hope they can survive.

[SUPERSTUD]

I don’t want to see any club go under but to be honest this is no way to run a semi professional set up. I mean at what stage do they definitely have to notify Dewsbury wether they will be turning up or not? If they rock up this week will it happen again next week? Massive reset required whatever that entails.

[Simon Hall]

Hope they get themselves sorted, but it’s no way to run a business never mind a professional RL club.
 

They need to be playing at the level they can afford and if that’s League 1 then that’s where they need to be, won’t do them any harm for a season or two. If they can’t make that work then just invest the energy and money they’re currently wasting into the amateur clubs in the area. 

[SUPERSTUD]

If Haven withdraw then the only logical decision for the RFL is two up from League 1 Oldham and the winners of the League 1 play off. Then two down from the Championship Dewsbury and Whitehaven.

[Griff]

1 minute ago, SUPERSTUD said:

If Haven withdraw then the only logical decision for the RFL is two up from League 1 Oldham and the winners of the League 1 play off. Then two down from the Championship Dewsbury and Whitehaven.

Well, there are a couple of immediate questions there.

1.  How does this affect the intended reduction of Championship clubs to 13?

2.  Is Whitehaven's withdrawal permanent?   If it is, we're looking for two new clubs rather than one.  Or a completely new strategy.

[LeeF]

29 minutes ago, Griff said:

Well, there are a couple of immediate questions there.

1.  How does this affect the intended reduction of Championship clubs to 13?

2.  Is Whitehaven's withdrawal permanent?   If it is, we're looking for two new clubs rather than one.  Or a completely new strategy.

There is no decision on whether they will withdraw - yet although there is no light in the tunnel.

The RFL are now seeking clarification. RL Cares are also involved 

 

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

37 minutes ago, Griff said:

Well, there are a couple of immediate questions there.

1.  How does this affect the intended reduction of Championship clubs to 13?

2.  Is Whitehaven's withdrawal permanent?   If it is, we're looking for two new clubs rather than one.  Or a completely new strategy.

And do you 'expunge' the results or keep those of games already played and award '30-0' victories to their opponents in the ones remaining? I haven't looked but the choice could have a big effect on the final league table

[Expatknight]

59 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

And do you 'expunge' the results or keep those of games already played and award '30-0' victories to their opponents in the ones remaining? I haven't looked but the choice could have a big effect on the final league table

The way the Championship is it could have massive consequences, in the past if a club folds before the end of the season their results are expunged, I can foresee all kinds of challenges if that results in a club getting relegated on the back of that. It is a very sorry state of affairs and yet again shows Rugby League in a bad light to everyone else out there.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

And do you 'expunge' the results or keep those of games already played and award '30-0' victories to their opponents in the ones remaining? I haven't looked but the choice could have a big effect on the final league table

It's 48-0.  The precedent is Rochdale v Skolars last year.

[Griff]

25 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

The way the Championship is it could have massive consequences, in the past if a club folds before the end of the season their results are expunged, I can foresee all kinds of challenges if that results in a club getting relegated on the back of that. It is a very sorry state of affairs and yet again shows Rugby League in a bad light to everyone else out there.

The other side of the coin is that, were Haven to fulfil the games with some scratch side cobbled together, 48-0 might seem to be a relatively close game.

[Expatknight]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

The other side of the coin is that, were Haven to fulfil the games with some scratch side cobbled together, 48-0 might seem to be a relatively close game.

How can that happen? Clubs can’t sign any players now until next season, if they were given a special dispensation that also sets a precedent, and not a good one, for the future, not only that but there would be issues re registration and insurance  , so unless the present players decide to play, at least this week, I can’t see how this situation can be solved.

[Wakefield Ram]

2 hours ago, Simon Hall said:

Hope they get themselves sorted, but it’s no way to run a business never mind a professional RL club.
 

They need to be playing at the level they can afford and if that’s League 1 then that’s where they need to be, won’t do them any harm for a season or two. If they can’t make that work then just invest the energy and money they’re currently wasting into the amateur clubs in the area. 

Last time I heard Halifax owed £54,000 in unpaid rent which is more than Whitehaven owe. Guess it depends who you owe, but would  say not paying rent for where you play is not any way to run a club. 

Whitehaven's issues are just out in the open and they lack a big money backer to write a cheque. Take away a wealthy backer and plenty of clubs would be in trouble.

I remember Leigh turning up at Dewsbury with 13 players after Beaumont stopped paying the players 6-7 years ago? Could say the same about other clubs. 

Edited August 21 by Wakefield Ram

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

How can that happen? 

Dunno.   It's not my problem, luckily.  Do you want the games played or not?

For the record, Haven's remaining fixtures appear (I say appear, because the fixture list on Haven's website just links to the RFL site) to be

Home    York, Halifax

Away     Dewsbury, Wakefield, Barrow, Batley

[Click]

2 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Last time I heard Halifax owed £54,000 in unpaid rent which is more than Whitehaven owe. Guess it depends who you owe, but would  say not paying rent for where you play is any way to run a club. 

Whitehaven's issues are just out in the open and they lack a big money backer to write a cheque. Take away a wealthy backer and plenty of clubs would be in trouble.

I remember Leigh turning up at Dewsbury with 13 players after Beaumont stopped paying the players. 6-7 years ago? Could say the same about other clubs. 

From the numbers we are hearing, Whitehaven don't need a big money backer, they just need a backer that has any kind of money it seems. 

30k is nothing in comparison to any other sport, especially a team playing in the second division of their sport.

[Wakefield Ram]

1 minute ago, Click said:

From the numbers we are hearing, Whitehaven don't need a big money backer, they just need a backer that has any kind of money it seems. 

30k is nothing in comparison to any other sport, especially a team playing in the second division of their sport.

I agree, but when people on this forum talk about running a club properly not sure losing lots of money but having a wealthy backer is really a better business model. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Having nothing better to do (although I haven't gone as deep as points difference), if the results are expunged

1 Wakefield 36pts

2 Toulouse 23

3 Sheffield 22

4/5/6 Bradford/Widnes/ York 20

7/8/9 Fev/Batley/Doncaster 18

10 Barrow 15

11/12 'fax/Swinton 14

13 Dewsbury 2

So gains for York (into top 6) and Barrow (leapfrog 'fax)

[Wakefield Ram]

If they fold, then results will have to be expunged. If they fail to fulfil one fixture v Dewsbury then they might just get away with 48-0 especially since it won't affect the table at all. 

[RigbyLuger]

33 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

I remember Leigh turning up at Dewsbury with 13 players after Beaumont stopped paying the players 6-7 years ago? Could say the same about other clubs. 

Shhh, we're supposed to forget that!

[Griff]

55 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

If they fold, then results will have to be expunged. 

Why?

What do the RFL rules say ?

[JonM]

My reading of the operational rules is if you forfeit a game, it's a 48-0 loss. There's no obvious provision for a club dropping out of the league mid-season.

[RS]

Historically the results were expunged but it was some time ago. Bradford Northern 63/4 is an example. 
 

see below re Toronto 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53524530.amp

Hopefully it won’t come to that.

Edited August 21 by RS
More information

[Expatknight]

13 minutes ago, RS said:

Historically the results were expunged but it was some time ago. Bradford Northern 63/4 is an example. 
 

see below re Toronto 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53524530.amp

Hopefully it won’t come to that.

2002 Season
York Wasps started the season but ceased to exist after 11 games. Their results were expunged from the records.

A very dark time for us.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

If Whitehaven were to disappear, rearranging the Championship and League 1 could be 'interesting' - particularly as League 1 is only just about viable with nine clubs and loop fixtures. Going to thirteen clubs in the Championship immediately is the obvious solution, but you can bet that there will be clubs weeping and wailing and nashing their teeth about the loss of revenue from one home game!

[Griff]

4 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

If Whitehaven were to disappear, rearranging the Championship and League 1 could be 'interesting' - particularly as League 1 is only just about viable with nine clubs and loop fixtures. Going to thirteen clubs in the Championship immediately is the obvious solution, but you can bet that there will be clubs weeping and wailing and nashing their teeth about the loss of revenue from one home game!

The plan is to go to thirteen clubs next season.