Pacific Championships 2024

[Whippet13]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

What does it hold, 30k ? I was there at the Indigenous game a couple of years ago and that was about 25k and what with the pre-match traditional dancers and great match it was probably one of the most enjoyable live League experiences I`ve ever been had. This should be right up there.

Btw, saw a group of Papuans down at Parramatta town square today in their Kumul`s gear, I gave them a " go the Kumul's" so hopefully there will be a good mix in the stadium on Sunday but suspect it`s mostly going to be a sea of red, my sons and I will be wearing some red and hoping for a boilover which will bring the house down.

 

30k capacity - I was at the RLWC2017 England v Tonga semi at Mt Smart with 24K Tongans there and it was an insane atmosphere, hope this weekend matches it.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

30k capacity - I was at the RLWC2017 England v Tonga semi at Mt Smart with 24K Tongans there and it was an insane atmosphere, hope this weekend matches it.

Lucky you. I would have loved to have been at that game  it looked phenomenal. 

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

26 could will be very different because it will be pretty much an in house NRL exercise as opposed to a separate disconnected bunch. 

I'm not sure I see any difference in how this is organised. 

Where I do share some of your optimism for 2026 (and indeed this year's tournament despite my frustration with the ARL/NRL) is that irrespective of the motivation, this one has been far better than previous versions. Appropriate ground selections seem to be the biggest improvement here and the fans have responded accordingly. 

 

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Think he means building demand and anticipation down under for an end of season international tournament in the lead up to RWLC2026 in order to maximise it's success, although that may just be a bonus rather than a deliberate plan. 

It absolutely is a bonus rather than an out and out plan. We know this really because a) it's never been that important to them to do that before, b) they are looking to fly the Kangaroos abroad next year instead of building them up on home shores in advance of the World Cup, and c) the World Cup was meant to be in France.

But, a things stand, we have to take whatever scraps we can, irrespective of whether they are accidental or strategic.

[Sports Prophet]

On 06/11/2024 at 19:45, Dave T said:

I'll happily criticise the RFL and the UK game for their incompetence (and slightly sympathise that some of this is always linked to being skint) - but I will always defend them around their broad attitude to international RL. I have no doubts that the UK game would prioritise the international game more than anyone else in the sport. THat may not be saying much, but we have actively demonstrated a desire to push the international game forward.

I agree with a lot of what you say Dave and maybe even with many or every aspect of what you have to say above.

BUT… let’s look at this a little more broader. Is it possible that the RFL and the UK game are looking for a self serving success by way of the international game which they are too incompetent to create themselves via the club game themselves which is exactly what the ARLC and the Aus game have achieved by being ruthlessly dedicated to prioritising the NRL and SOO?

Let’s face it, the biggest, most richest sporting competitions for team sports are almost exclusively club sports.

Many people on this forum call the NRL, Australia, ARLC, NRL clubs and any other major Aus RL stakeholder “selfish”. I’ve got nothing wrong with that. The NRL has developed into a beast which has left the English game in its dust without being beyond the horizon because it prioritised the Aus game and it’s best interests.

These stakeholders collectively acted upon the opportunities which would make them the biggest Rugby competition in the world. I’m not going to deny the Australian game of the heralding it deserves, just because another governing body couldn’t keep up.

Now that the NRL is almost secure in its position in Aus, it is acting upon Pacific opportunities better than it ever could have previously and it’s doing a pretty good job of it.

Next stop… 2025 Ashes tour to England. 

Shame it’s not against Great Britain… (sorry, couldn’t help myself at the end )

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I agree with a lot of what you say Dave and maybe even with many or every aspect of what you have to say above.

BUT… let’s look at this a little more broader. Is it possible that the RFL and the UK game are looking for a self serving success by way of the international game which they are too incompetent to create themselves via the club game themselves which is exactly what the ARLC and the Aus game have achieved by being ruthlessly dedicated to prioritising the NRL and SOO?

Let’s face it, the biggest, most richest sporting competitions for team sports are almost exclusively club sports.

Many people on this forum call the NRL, Australia, ARLC, NRL clubs and any other major Aus RL stakeholder “selfish”. I’ve got nothing wrong with that. The NRL has developed into a beast which has left the English game in its dust without being beyond the horizon because it prioritised the Aus game and it’s best interests.

These stakeholders collectively acted upon the opportunities which would make them the biggest Rugby competition in the world. I’m not going to deny the Australian game of the heralding it deserves, just because another governing body couldn’t keep up.

Now that the NRL is almost secure in its position in Aus, it is acting upon Pacific opportunities better than it ever could have previously and it’s doing a pretty good job of it.

Next stop… 2025 Ashes tour to England. 

Shame it’s not against Great Britain… (sorry, couldn’t help myself at the end )

The RFL deserves criticism for plenty, and they get it. I'll start with that as i always feel obliged to when I somewhat defend them.

In reality, the club game and international game really can be treated as relatively separate things. Obviously they need to co-exist and not conflict with each other, but I don't buy that the NRL gets a free pass because they have a strong club game. I dont see the logic. These things can run alongside each other, and we do have instances of the Aussies actively harming the international game. That can't be justified. 

The PN tournament has been great, I've watched a fair bit and enjoyed it. But let's not get too carried away just now. The Kiwi vs Kangaroo game got a similar crowd to the England v Samoa matches that have a very different tone. There are still only two events staged in Oz. Last years final was an embarrassment. Next year won't have the Kangaroos. We shouldn't be backslapping and counting the dollars just yet.

We can see potential limitations - its great to see games in Fiji, but it's costly with small crowds. Tonga and Samoa will probably never host. It's a reason that whilst it is great while it lasts, it's a very quick tournament.

 

I just don't buy that this, and more can't have been delivered with a more positive partnership..

[Sports Prophet]

48 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The RFL deserves criticism for plenty, and they get it. I'll start with that as i always feel obliged to when I somewhat defend them.

In reality, the club game and international game really can be treated as relatively separate things. Obviously they need to co-exist and not conflict with each other, but I don't buy that the NRL gets a free pass because they have a strong club game. I dont see the logic. These things can run alongside each other, and we do have instances of the Aussies actively harming the international game. That can't be justified. 

The PN tournament has been great, I've watched a fair bit and enjoyed it. But let's not get too carried away just now. The Kiwi vs Kangaroo game got a similar crowd to the England v Samoa matches that have a very different tone. There are still only two events staged in Oz. Last years final was an embarrassment. Next year won't have the Kangaroos. We shouldn't be backslapping and counting the dollars just yet.

We can see potential limitations - its great to see games in Fiji, but it's costly with small crowds. Tonga and Samoa will probably never host. It's a reason that whilst it is great while it lasts, it's a very quick tournament.

 

I just don't buy that this, and more can't have been delivered with a more positive partnership..

That loss making international fixtures are being played in PNG and Fiji to me is but one demonstration the NRL has not kicked international footy to touch.

Soon they will be rewarded by the Australian Government to the tune of $600m for doing so. Imagine having that kind of influence in Europe.

Last year’s underwhelming final was organised by an underwhelming NZRL, which has led the NRL to run the whole show in 2024. They learned from their gracious mistake in 2023 and have not only made a successful improvement in 2024, they have also both willed and financed an unwilling Samoan team to get to England for two tests in 2024.

That latter point is still one of the most overlooked matters for those which want to disgrace the game in the SH.

The Australians have NEVER actively harmed the international game or any other international governing body where having taken alternative action would have presented a potential for considerable harm to themselves.

Again, in my opinion, the NRL (as we will continue to call the many stakeholders from here on in) should not be denigrated for this behaviour, but dare I say it, applauded for prioritising themselves and subsequently earning the rewards they have.

Especially whilst successfully fighting a very much forgotten battle with a domestic opponent which makes mass advances into Australian RL heartland.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure I see any difference in how this is organised. 

Where I do share some of your optimism for 2026 (and indeed this year's tournament despite my frustration with the ARL/NRL) is that irrespective of the motivation, this one has been far better than previous versions. Appropriate ground selections seem to be the biggest improvement here and the fans have responded accordingly. 

 

It doesn’t matter whether you see a difference. What matters is that it is an integral part of the NRL/ARL events cycle. You may not have noticed it, but Vegas was massively promoted. The 08 and 17 tournaments were back of a fag packet, on non league channels, with teams of people in separate offices from the ones driving RL day in and day out. The difference from the Australian perspective will be everything: more promotion, more social media, more podcasts, integrated into Fox league programmes, greater traditional press exposure, using the NRL ticketing system… you name it, really. 

Fundamentally, I am pleased with what Abdo is saying because it is him saying it, and he is the guy (with Vlandys) driving the billion dollar flagship for the game, which is producing the players we love seeing. It isn’t the historical perspective, it’s what the future holds. 

I appreciate there is virtually no overlap between our 2 views on this, and I understand yours completely. Indeed, we are I am sure both agreed that, as the best rugby team in the world, the Kangaroos should be playing every home game in a packed Olympic stadium, and we remain far from that. 

Edited November 7, 2024 by Exiled Wiganer

[Exiled Wiganer]

46 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That loss making international fixtures are being played in PNG and Fiji to me is but one demonstration the NRL has not kicked international footy to touch.

Soon they will be rewarded by the Australian Government to the tune of $600m for doing so. Imagine having that kind of influence in Europe.

Last year’s underwhelming final was organised by an underwhelming NZRL, which has led the NRL to run the whole show in 2024. They learned from their gracious mistake in 2023 and have not only made a successful improvement in 2024, they have also both willed and financed an unwilling Samoan team to get to England for two tests in 2024.

That latter point is still one of the most overlooked matters for those which want to disgrace the game in the SH.

The Australians have NEVER actively harmed the international game or any other international governing body where having taken alternative action would have presented a potential for considerable harm to themselves.

Again, in my opinion, the NRL (as we will continue to call the many stakeholders from here on in) should not be denigrated for this behaviour, but dare I say it, applauded for prioritising themselves and subsequently earning the rewards they have.

Especially whilst successfully fighting a very much forgotten battle with a domestic opponent which makes mass advances into Australian RL heartland.

“Mass advances”? Yeah right. We have all been glued to the drama of the international tight shorts competition. 

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It doesn’t matter whether you see a difference. What matters is that it is an integral part of the NRL/ARL events cycle. You may not have noticed it, but Vegas was massively promoted. The 08 and 17 tournaments were back of a fag packet, on non league channels, with teams of people in separate offices from the ones driving RL day in and day out. The difference from the Australian perspective will be everything: more promotion, more social media, more podcasts, integrated into Fox league programmes, greater traditional press exposure, using the NRL ticketing system… you name it, really. 

Fundamentally, I am pleased with what Abdo is saying because it is him saying it, and he is the guy (with Vlandys) driving the billion dollar flagship for the game, which is producing the players we love seeing. It isn’t the historical perspective, it’s what the future holds. 

I appreciate there is virtually no overlap between our 2 views on this, and I understand yours completely. Indeed, we are I am sure both agreed that, as the best rugby team in the world, the Kangaroos should be playing every home game in a packed Olympic stadium, and we remain far from that. 

Hmm. This is an extremely rosy view. It is still the absolute bare minimum of a tournament, with some average events and crowds - stuff that the RFL gets criticised for.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Hmm. This is an extremely rosy view. It is still the absolute bare minimum of a tournament, with some average events and crowds - stuff that the RFL gets criticised for.

A wonkily scheduled quadruple header that guarantees empty stands for two of the games? Yes, please!

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

That loss making international fixtures are being played in PNG and Fiji to me is but one demonstration the NRL has not kicked international footy to touch.

Soon they will be rewarded by the Australian Government to the tune of $600m for doing so. Imagine having that kind of influence in Europe.

Last year’s underwhelming final was organised by an underwhelming NZRL, which has led the NRL to run the whole show in 2024. They learned from their gracious mistake in 2023 and have not only made a successful improvement in 2024, they have also both willed and financed an unwilling Samoan team to get to England for two tests in 2024.

That latter point is still one of the most overlooked matters for those which want to disgrace the game in the SH.

The Australians have NEVER actively harmed the international game or any other international governing body where having taken alternative action would have presented a potential for considerable harm to themselves.

Again, in my opinion, the NRL (as we will continue to call the many stakeholders from here on in) should not be denigrated for this behaviour, but dare I say it, applauded for prioritising themselves and subsequently earning the rewards they have.

Especially whilst successfully fighting a very much forgotten battle with a domestic opponent which makes mass advances into Australian RL heartland.

The Aussie club game wouldn't have been harmed through playing internationals each year and not taking years off.

The Aussies haven't even fulfilled ongoing promises. That is harmful to the international game.

[StandOffHalf]

8 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

In its own terms in its own way this has been a game changing Pacific Championships, with superb games wall to wall. By far, for me, the biggest success has been the way in which the NRL has incorporated this into their calendar with 2026 in mind. That is new.
 

The disconnected way in which the 08 and 17 world cups were run means we have barely scratched the surface in terms of the potential over there. It is very important that they see this as a success, and if they exaggerate their role then that is a positive message for the future. 
 

On the field, across both hemispheres, I have been hugely encouraged by the depth of talent everywhere you look. When I started watching international league in earnest, at the start of the 80s, you could barely put together a team from the rest of the world who would give the Kangaroos a competitive match. We have come a long long way. 

I would love to see Rest of the World play Australia again and Other Nationalities playing England again.

I think both would be fascinating.

[StandOffHalf]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

That loss making international fixtures are being played in PNG and Fiji to me is but one demonstration the NRL has not kicked international footy to touch.

Soon they will be rewarded by the Australian Government to the tune of $600m for doing so. Imagine having that kind of influence in Europe.

Last year’s underwhelming final was organised by an underwhelming NZRL, which has led the NRL to run the whole show in 2024. They learned from their gracious mistake in 2023 and have not only made a successful improvement in 2024, they have also both willed and financed an unwilling Samoan team to get to England for two tests in 2024.

That latter point is still one of the most overlooked matters for those which want to disgrace the game in the SH.

The Australians have NEVER actively harmed the international game or any other international governing body where having taken alternative action would have presented a potential for considerable harm to themselves.

Again, in my opinion, the NRL (as we will continue to call the many stakeholders from here on in) should not be denigrated for this behaviour, but dare I say it, applauded for prioritising themselves and subsequently earning the rewards they have.

Especially whilst successfully fighting a very much forgotten battle with a domestic opponent which makes mass advances into Australian RL heartland.

NEVER?

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Hmm. This is an extremely rosy view. It is still the absolute bare minimum of a tournament, with some average events and crowds - stuff that the RFL gets criticised for.

I can’t make you change your mind. I can see your perspective and have explained the logic behind my conclusion. 

Edited November 7, 2024 by Exiled Wiganer

[Hopie]

7 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

We'll see

Even if there is no mid season international in the Northern Hemisphere, that would still make us level with the southern hemisphere. Indeed if I were apeing the cycnicism I see I could point out that the NRL is not holding any internationals at the end of the season because they are not playing games to international rules. I hope the IRL is getting some funding to support other endeavours.

5 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

30k capacity - I was at the RLWC2017 England v Tonga semi at Mt Smart with 24K Tongans there and it was an insane atmosphere, hope this weekend matches it.

Incredible event, and England actually bloody won, couldn't ask for more and well worth travelling to the other side of the planet for.

[Sports Prophet]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

The Aussie club game wouldn't have been harmed through playing internationals each year and not taking years off.

The Aussies haven't even fulfilled ongoing promises. That is harmful to the international game.

I disagree with you there Dave. International footy on many occasions has been a threat to the Australian game.

 

5 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

“Mass advances”? Yeah right. We have all been glued to the drama of the international tight shorts competition. 

what the hell are you talking about? 

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I disagree with you there Dave. International footy on many occasions has been a threat to the Australian game.

 

Nah, it really hasn't. Let's be honest, the asks haven't been onerous. 

I understand your view, they had to focus on themselves at all costs. I just don't agree that the international game would be harmful. 

In the same way Origin isn't harmful to the NRL. These things can co-exist, and more.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Dave T

[unapologetic pedant]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

That loss making international fixtures are being played in PNG and Fiji to me is but one demonstration the NRL has not kicked international footy to touch.

These fixtures are not loss-making for the NRL.

"The Pacific Bowl is proudly supported by the Australian Government through PacificAus Sports"

[EggFace]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

That loss making international fixtures are being played in PNG and Fiji to me is but one demonstration the NRL has not kicked international footy to touch.

Soon they will be rewarded by the Australian Government to the tune of $600m for doing so. Imagine having that kind of influence in Europe.

Last year’s underwhelming final was organised by an underwhelming NZRL, which has led the NRL to run the whole show in 2024. They learned from their gracious mistake in 2023 and have not only made a successful improvement in 2024, they have also both willed and financed an unwilling Samoan team to get to England for two tests in 2024.

That latter point is still one of the most overlooked matters for those which want to disgrace the game in the SH.

The Australians have NEVER actively harmed the international game or any other international governing body where having taken alternative action would have presented a potential for considerable harm to themselves.

Again, in my opinion, the NRL (as we will continue to call the many stakeholders from here on in) should not be denigrated for this behaviour, but dare I say it, applauded for prioritising themselves and subsequently earning the rewards they have.

Especially whilst successfully fighting a very much forgotten battle with a domestic opponent which makes mass advances into Australian RL heartland.

I loved the internationals this both Pacific and Samoa tour and have feeling things are on the up for international Rugby League.

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

A wonkily scheduled quadruple header that guarantees empty stands for two of the games? Yes, please!

I lost track of how this palaver unfolded. Few weeks back, some fans bought tickets under the impression the final would be the fourth game of the day. Then they noticed this timeslot was scheduled for Nine's secondary channel. After Tonga won, NRL confirmed the final would be the third game. Which leads into Nine News. Have to hope it doesn't go to golden point.

[bazza_merged]

I guess Australia has been lucky in having a relatively competitive opponent (NZ) close by to play regular internationals with and also a source of players for their competition. This also led to the rise of the PI countries mainly via heritage players to becoming competitive - giving 6 or so relatively competitive countries that can play in localised tournaments like this.

Imagine if England had of had something similar with France (and expanding into Wales, Ireland, Scotland, etc) - but it seems those things never were persisted with and the focus has appeared to be on matches against southern hemisphere countries

[George Watt]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I lost track of how this palaver unfolded. Few weeks back, some fans bought tickets under the impression the final would be the fourth game of the day. Then they noticed this timeslot was scheduled for Nine's secondary channel. After Tonga won, NRL confirmed the final would be the third game. Which leads into Nine News. Have to hope it doesn't go to golden point.

Channel Nine will hold the News until the match finishes. Has happened before in an NRL match when a long injury incident caused a 6pm overrun.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, bazza_merged said:

I guess Australia has been lucky in having a relatively competitive opponent (NZ) close by to play regular internationals with and also a source of players for their competition. This also led to the rise of the PI countries mainly via heritage players to becoming competitive - giving 6 or so relatively competitive countries that can play in localised tournaments like this.

Imagine if England had of had something similar with France (and expanding into Wales, Ireland, Scotland, etc) - but it seems those things never were persisted with and the focus has appeared to be on matches against southern hemisphere countries

When we look at history, really the European nations have had the same approach as the Pacific Nations, u til these last couple of years. In fact the Euro Nations always played more matches than most of the Pacific Nations.

The big differences are that the quality of heritage player is far superior, and they have fanbases in Oz and NZ because of the way those populations are made up, and the popularity of RL in Oz versus Unon for example. The fact that RL is actually a thing in these nations too is a factor.

[MatthewWoody]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/11/07/nrl-admits-kiwis-robbed-of-match-winning-penalty-goal-by-ref-blunder-in-frenetic-tonga-finish/