Fri 6th Sept: SL: Wigan Warriors v Hull KR KO 20:00 (Sky)

[StandOffHalf]

29 minutes ago, Trojan Horse said:

But I’m positive the ref said you can’t join the tackle when it’s complete. I’m positive the ref literally said that. 
 

I’ve seen far longer lay on not penalised. 
 

That’s a separate point. You can’t just use that to make a wrong decision fit. My arguement is he was penalised for a flop/joining the tackle because it was complete when it clearly wasn’t. 
 

Anyway, games over so it’s fish and chip scrap paper now. 

The one post-script I'll just add is that I strongly suspect it was the glance from Burgess that made the ref think of binning him. Burgess doesn't do anything wrong, but by scanning and disentangling in a controlled fashion, the ref thinks 'Flop'/'Slowing Down' and marches him.

 

Edited September 6 by StandOffHalf

[Click]

Just now, Chris22 said:

If you start sending players for an automatic HIA when the defender is a card, that is no deterrent.

Player goes off, passes HIA immediately, team gains an extra sub.

That isn't always a good thing for a team - If it isn't a prop forward going off for HIA then usually there isn't a like-for-like replacement on the bench.

[StandOffHalf]

16 minutes ago, Worzel said:

I think Hall was out, and it was fine. My only point is that the Burgess sin bin was a joke, and French joining that situation - legally - proves it. Exactly the same level of movement, exactly the same moment of an extra player joining the tackle. 

Agreed.

[JohnM]

3 minutes ago, bratman said:

Rovers were on top for large parts of the game, keep 13 on the pitch and they are more than capable. Hopefully bodes well for the playoffs...

As a Wigan fan I agree. They know what to do to keep 13 on the pitch, too. Smith, H was completely overshadowed by Lewis, M, too

[Futtocks]

3 minutes ago, Click said:

That isn't always a good thing for a team - If it isn't a prop forward going off for HIA then usually there isn't a like-for-like replacement on the bench.

If the rules change, so do the tactics. Same as it's always been.

[ELBOWSEYE]

27 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

You'll probably see injured players trying to play on.

You mean like over the last century.maybe we should get rada to sponsor the game.

[Segovia Carpet]

Simply Rervers choked tonight.   You shouldn`t lose when 12 in front.

[Click]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

If the rules change, so do the tactics. Same as it's always been.

I am not sure what tactics you're referring to? We have roughly the same rules as we had 3/4 years ago relating to HIA's

But I recall a certain poster (won't name them) saying that Huddersfield and Hill were expoilting the HIA rule to get free subs, but we haven't seen that since.

Professionals have to have some kind of accountability.

[Click]

3 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

You mean like over the last century.maybe we should get rada to sponsor the game.

You want players to continue playing while injured?

[Father Ted]

Both sin bins were clear cut. The Burgess one has been in the game for decades. With RL having to reduce the number of head tackles the review is inevitable. Not popular but going to happen and continue.

Agree if HKR had kept 13 on for the 80 mins the they'd would likely have won. But they're not the first team to get players binned for lying on after a clean break, nor direct shoulder hits to the head.

Some great tries scored by both sides. 

[Worzel]

14 minutes ago, Damien said:

The situations couldn't have been more different. I can't believe you are trying to compare them.

Please explain the difference? Both involved an additional player joining the tackle, when the ball carrier was on the ground but still moving. One resulted in a penalty and sin bin, the other didn’t. 

Anyway, who cares now? What a performance, what a season. Compare that to the play off semi last year. This Rovers team is night and day to last season’s, and I’m loving every minute of it. 

[Futtocks]

5 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

You mean like over the last century.maybe we should get rada to sponsor the game.

I remember the interview with Shontayne Hape, saying that players tended to deliberately score low in the baseline tests, so they were less likely to be kept off the field in cases of concussion. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shontayne-hape-my-battle-with-concussion/CGBEXHZROCMNKPAD5BYKPBAL5Y/

[Click]

1 minute ago, Worzel said:

Please explain the difference? Both involved an additional player joining the tackle, when the ball carrier was on the ground but still moving. One resulted in a penalty and sin bin, the other didn’t. 

Anyway, who cares now? What a performance, what a season. Compare that to the play off semi last year. This Rovers team is night and day to last season’s, and I’m loving every minute of it. 

One happened in the middle of the field after a break, and one ended up with a player in touch after not breaking the line?

[Worzel]

18 minutes ago, Click said:

Perhaps you should blame Tanginoa for hitting him so hard? 

You are saying he stayed down to force a video review - Rather than have any possible thinking that perhaps Tanginoa absolutely smashed Miski and actually hurt him so he couldn't instantly get back to his feet.

We aren't watching robots, I know they play like it most of the time, but they do actually feel pain on occasion.

If you think two different Wigan players staying down after heavy contact in a tackle, facilitating a video review, is a random event rather than a deliberate club policy then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. 

[Click]

Just now, Futtocks said:

I remember the interview with Shontayne Hape, saying that players tended to deliberately score low in the baseline tests, so they were less likely to be kept off the field in cases of concussion. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shontayne-hape-my-battle-with-concussion/CGBEXHZROCMNKPAD5BYKPBAL5Y/

I think they changed the questions/test since Hape's day to avoid this situation. (If I am remembering correctly)

[Futtocks]

5 minutes ago, Click said:

I am not sure what tactics you're referring to? We have roughly the same rules as we had 3/4 years ago relating to HIA's

But I recall a certain poster (won't name them) saying that Huddersfield and Hill were expoilting the HIA rule to get free subs, but we haven't seen that since.

Professionals have to have some kind of accountability.

I mean the bench selections. If the rules change, clubs are more likely to have a utility back as an available sub.

[Click]

Just now, Worzel said:

If you think two different Wigan players staying down after heavy contact in a tackle, facilitating a video review, is a random event rather than a deliberate club policy then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. 

I have able to view the situations without rose tinted glasses of having my club involved in them.

Did Dupree stay down as he felt contact to his head? Perhaps, I don't know.

Did he get a shoulder to the head? Yes.

Did Miski stay down as he felt contact to his head? Probably not, as he didn't get contact to the head. 

Did Miski stay down as his head went a foot back from whiplash from Tanginoa's hit? Yes. Was he hurt because of that? Perhaps getting that kind of whiplash has an affect on a human body. 

[JohnM]

1 minute ago, Worzel said:

If you think two different Wigan players staying down after heavy contact in a tackle, facilitating a video review, is a random event rather than a deliberate club policy then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. 

Complete and utter nonsense. Even under the free speech umbrella where anyone can say anything, that's is rubbish.

[Futtocks]

Just now, Click said:

I think they changed the questions/test since Hape's day to avoid this situation. (If I am remembering correctly)

Again, the thread I was responding to suggested that we'd had a century of players carrying on while hurt and apparently that was just fine.

[Click]

1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

I mean the bench selections. If the rules change, clubs are more likely to have a utility back as an available sub.

It's always been a decision for a club to have a utility back on the bench or not, having HIA rule changes come into affect probably isn't going to change that much.

[Click]

Just now, Futtocks said:

Again, the thread I was responding to suggested that we'd had a century of players carrying on while hurt and apparently that was just fine.

Sorry, yes I agree that apparently it was fine back then. But I like to think we have evolved as a sport.

[Futtocks]

2 minutes ago, Click said:

I think they changed the questions/test since Hape's day to avoid this situation. (If I am remembering correctly)

We'd need to see the current regulations, but if there's a cognitive baseline that draws the line between playing on and missing the rest of the game, you'd have to assume that players would be setting that baseline as low as they could get away with. They're competitive people who don't like being sidelined, even when they should be.

[StandOffHalf]

5 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Please explain the difference? Both involved an additional player joining the tackle, when the ball carrier was on the ground but still moving. One resulted in a penalty and sin bin, the other didn’t. 

Anyway, who cares now? What a performance, what a season. Compare that to the play off semi last year. This Rovers team is night and day to last season’s, and I’m loving every minute of it. 

You could actually say that the Field one was more noticeable. His arm was up and still moving, whereas Hall was down with minimal movement.

No comparison is going to completely line up, but I think you pick up on important similarities.

The difference between lying on sin-binnings and what Burgess did was that the tackle hadn't been completed and it was legally and fluidly added to by Burgess.

[Click]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

We'd need to see the current regulations, but if there's a cognitive baseline that draws the line between playing on and missing the rest of the game, you'd have to assume that players would be setting that baseline as low as they could get away with. They're competitive people who don't like being sidelined, even when they should be.

Yeah I understand what you mean - Players themselves will usually not want to be pulled out of the game even if it is for their own benefit.

I am not sure what exactly the tests are now, I just recall them mentioning having tests that don't allow for as much "bias" so to say with trainers being friendly with players, etc. 

[bratman]

17 minutes ago, JohnM said:

As a Wigan fan I agree. They know what to do to keep 13 on the pitch, too. Smith, H was completely overshadowed by Lewis, M, too

Wigan have always got a chance with French and Field in the team, and Mago and Nsemba on tonights evidence