What needs to be done differently?

[JM2010]

RL in the UK and at International level seems to be really struggling at the moment. There’s clubs like Saints making big losses, reduced tv money, sponsorship and viewing figures, attendances struggling to grow, contraction of the game at community level, outpost clubs like the Skolars having to drop out of the professional game and the problems at Whitehaven and Halifax. Internationally, there’s the France Lebanon series probably being cancelled and the fact that there’s no real schedule for the NH nations outside of WCs with England having to go cap in hand to find an SH opponent to come over for a series. 
Is this just going to carry on until RL is even smaller than it already is or can things be done to pull it out of the doldrums and become a much stronger sport in the UK and Internationally? 
I don’t hold out too much hope tbh

[gingerjon]

Still, mustn’t grumble …

[RP London]

without wanting to start another one going, but to answer the question posed, isnt this why we are working with IMG? This is the "doing something differently" to try and change some of this, some will take more work than others but in the end this thread answer is just now, surely, bear with the changes being proposed and made already and let it have a chance to work?

merge with the other IMG thread in the end I'd guess

Edited September 10 by RP London

[Archie Gordon]

I just think we need to make the weather a bit more. Nobody seems to be in charge of the sport in the UK. Who are we looking to as leader(s)? Seems to me that after many global searches for talent we have ended up with a cast of RFL salarymen in all the positions of authority.

[JM2010]

15 minutes ago, RP London said:

without wanting to start another one going, but to answer the question posed, isnt this why we are working with IMG? This is the "doing something differently" to try and change some of this, some will take more work than others but in the end this thread answer is just now, surely, bear with the changes being proposed and made already and let it have a chance to work?

merge with the other IMG thread in the end I'd guess

I think IMG is only part of it though. That’s just to try and strengthen clubs. There’s the RFL, junior development, expansion of the game and the International calendar that seem to be struggling.

 

Edited September 10 by JM2010

[RP London]

Just now, JM2010 said:

I think IMG is only part of it though. That’s just to try and strengthen clubs. There’s junior development, expansion of the game and the International calendar that seem to be struggling 

Its not "just to try and strengthen the clubs" at all.. its to strengthen the offering that the club game gives.. therefore increasing central revenue of the game as a whole which is what gives the central funding to clubs (something McMannus talks about) and also gives the RFL the money to spend on junior development. By having a stronger league then expansion (if it comes) will be stronger as there is a better product, there may be more funding for it and the people involved may have more disposable income becuase the offering and ROI is higher.. With a stronger league comes a more power to deal with the international calendar, however, this is very dependant on what you want from that as to make more northern hemisphere teams competitive with England will take longer and other things to happen. 

[Mumby Magic]

Internationals, Events and clubs investing almost as much into the infrastructure and commercial/marketing as they do the players.

Edited September 10 by Mumby Magic

[EggFace]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

without wanting to start another one going, but to answer the question posed, isnt this why we are working with IMG? This is the "doing something differently" to try and change some of this, some will take more work than others but in the end this thread answer is just now, surely, bear with the changes being proposed and made already and let it have a chance to work?

merge with the other IMG thread in the end I'd guess

You just said the one word that will work.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, EggFace said:

You just said the one word that will work.

?

[JM2010]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

?

I hope it’s not what I think it is. This thread will erupt!

[RP London]

1 minute ago, JM2010 said:

I hope it’s not what I think it is. This thread will erupt!

But it is the answer to the thread.. we are doing something differently but we have only just started. I dont understand why people would now look for other answers when we havent even tried this one yet.. 

[JM2010]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

But it is the answer to the thread.. we are doing something differently but we have only just started. I dont understand why people would now look for other answers when we havent even tried this one yet.. 

I was talking about the word merge. I think he might have been tongue in cheek with his reply.

I get your point and hopefully it will start bearing fruit in the near future. Is IMG on its own enough though?

Edited September 10 by JM2010

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I was talking about the word merge. I think he might have been tongue in cheek with his reply.

I get your point and hopefully it will start bearing fruit in the near future. Is INV on its own enough though?

You could have some good mergers, I’d start with Huddersfield and Sheffield, and probably Newcastle and Hull. 

[whatmichaelsays]

The game in the UK needs to expand its audience and its appeal to new markets. 

We're stuck in a loop of trying to sell more of the same thing to more of the same people. We're not really seeing much innovation in the products we offer, we're still trying to sell it and promote it in the same way and, when that doesn't work, the only tool we have left is to cheapen the price of the product - that's a spiral the game has to pull out of.

We've reached a ceiling in appealing to the "core" market - they have little more to spend and they are an ageing cohort and the sport can't just rely on those dads to drag their reluctant kids along. 

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The game in the UK needs to expand its audience and its appeal to new markets. 

We're stuck in a loop of trying to sell more of the same thing to more of the same people. We're not really seeing much innovation in the products we offer, we're still trying to sell it and promote it in the same way and, when that doesn't work, the only tool we have left is to cheapen the price of the product - that's a spiral the game has to pull out of.

We've reached a ceiling in appealing to the "core" market - they have little more to spend and they are an ageing cohort and the sport can't just rely on those dads to drag their reluctant kids along. 

Your statement could have been said at any time since the war, probably before too. 

[RP London]

29 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I was talking about the word merge. I think he might have been tongue in cheek with his reply.

I get your point and hopefully it will start bearing fruit in the near future. Is INV on its own enough though?

Ahh got you.. i hadnt realised i'd said the M word.... ooops

IMG wise, it depends I suppose. Probably not to fix all the issues (international etc) but if they can get some bits moving then others opportunities/solutions arise or they may have more incentive to push at the others that maybe arent really their remit..

[RP London]

22 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You could have some good mergers, I’d start with Huddersfield and Sheffield, and probably Newcastle and Hull. 

you can go off people very quickly you know... 

[DlEHARD]

Need the Aussies to take over. 

[The 4 of Us]

Independent commission to run the game, with remit to build and expand the game, based on binding vision/criteria. The RFL can run the old Barla comps if there’s anyone left. Different arms of the game, including SL clubs, to have membership of commission without any of them having the majority say individually. 

Clubs licensed to play in structure on basis they accept terms of membership unequivocally, whatever they are and don’t turn to twitter when it doesn’t go their way. 

Same old insiders need not apply. 
 

 

[Big Picture]

12 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The game in the UK needs to expand its audience and its appeal to new markets. 

We're stuck in a loop of trying to sell more of the same thing to more of the same people. We're not really seeing much innovation in the products we offer, we're still trying to sell it and promote it in the same way and, when that doesn't work, the only tool we have left is to cheapen the price of the product - that's a spiral the game has to pull out of.

We've reached a ceiling in appealing to the "core" market - they have little more to spend and they are an ageing cohort and the sport can't just rely on those dads to drag their reluctant kids along. 

The problem is that as a small, poor, low profile regional sport locked into smallish, unfashionable towns the sport has no way to do that.  That picture simply doesn't have enough appeal now, even in the game's heartland. 

This is why more and more of the sons and grandsons of the RL players and fans of yesteryear aren't interested and only go to matches if their parents drag them along.  If it doesn't appeal to them, how is it supposed to appeal to outsiders?

As a result IMG has precious little to work with and all they've been able to come up with is rehashing past ideas which didn't work and/or the clubs resist.

6 minutes ago, DlEHARD said:

Need the Aussies to take over. 

And just how do you expect the Aussies to change the fundamental problems which I just spelled out?

[whatmichaelsays]

29 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The problem is that as a small, poor, low profile regional sport locked into smallish, unfashionable towns the sport has no way to do that.  That picture simply doesn't have enough appeal now, even in the game's heartland. 

This is why more and more of the sons and grandsons of the RL players and fans of yesteryear aren't interested and only go to matches if their parents drag them along.  If it doesn't appeal to them, how is it supposed to appeal to outsiders?

As a result IMG has precious little to work with and all they've been able to come up with is rehashing past ideas which didn't work and/or the clubs resist.

I disagree with this. I don't see "expansion" as a geography problem - it's an audience problem. 

We currently cater to a very small number of demographic segments within our own heartland areas. We don't cater well to people looking for more premium experiences. We don't cater well to younger audiences. We don't cater well to students and graduates. We don't cater well to people from heartland areas who move around the country for work or study. We don't cater well to people who want to buy good quality merchandise. We don't cater well to people who want to consumer RL content online. 

None of those issues are issues of geography. They're issues that we're not even addressing with the people on our doorstep. 

As a sport we produce a lot of content - even more of it now that IMG are a partner - and we need to spread that content. We need to stop seeing success simply through the metrics of attendances, and around much broader metrics of reach and engagement - because if we can build an audience for people who like our stuff, we can sell that audience to commercial partners. I don't think having teams in Leigh, Wigan or Castleford stops us from doing that. 

[graveyard johnny]

bring back the biff

take the pea out of the refs whistle 

get the Sunday afternoon strippers back on in the pub before the game 

let all the kids run on the pitch at the end of the game

wire the video ref to an electric shock machine that's timed to go off after 30 seconds of not making a decision 

sack the entire sky team apart from Dave Woods and appoint Adam Hills as boss of RL  on sky 

LET THE GAME FLOW END TO END  like it used to do 

make special dispensation money wise to sign top RU  talent 

 

 

[gingerjon]

34 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I disagree with this. I don't see "expansion" as a geography problem - it's an audience problem. 

We currently cater to a very small number of demographic segments within our own heartland areas. We don't cater well to people looking for more premium experiences. We don't cater well to younger audiences. We don't cater well to students and graduates. We don't cater well to people from heartland areas who move around the country for work or study. We don't cater well to people who want to buy good quality merchandise. We don't cater well to people who want to consumer RL content online. 

None of those issues are issues of geography. They're issues that we're not even addressing with the people on our doorstep. 

As a sport we produce a lot of content - even more of it now that IMG are a partner - and we need to spread that content. We need to stop seeing success simply through the metrics of attendances, and around much broader metrics of reach and engagement - because if we can build an audience for people who like our stuff, we can sell that audience to commercial partners. I don't think having teams in Leigh, Wigan or Castleford stops us from doing that. 

This.

All this.

But also we do need to expand geographically too.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I disagree with this. I don't see "expansion" as a geography problem - it's an audience problem. 

We currently cater to a very small number of demographic segments within our own heartland areas. We don't cater well to people looking for more premium experiences. We don't cater well to younger audiences. We don't cater well to students and graduates. We don't cater well to people from heartland areas who move around the country for work or study. We don't cater well to people who want to buy good quality merchandise. We don't cater well to people who want to consumer RL content online. 

None of those issues are issues of geography. They're issues that we're not even addressing with the people on our doorstep. 

As a sport we produce a lot of content - even more of it now that IMG are a partner - and we need to spread that content. We need to stop seeing success simply through the metrics of attendances, and around much broader metrics of reach and engagement - because if we can build an audience for people who like our stuff, we can sell that audience to commercial partners. I don't think having teams in Leigh, Wigan or Castleford stops us from doing that. 

I think a problem is that the NRL arguably caters much better to some of those demographics, in that it's so easily accessible these days. If somebody has a spare 5 minutes to watch some recent highlights, it's much easier to find NRL content than it is SL content. Plus it's higher quality. So SL is now having to compete against NRL for 'eyeballs' to a certain degree.

Edited September 10 by RugbyLeagueGeek

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I disagree with this. I don't see "expansion" as a geography problem - it's an audience problem. 

We currently cater to a very small number of demographic segments within our own heartland areas. We don't cater well to people looking for more premium experiences. We don't cater well to younger audiences. We don't cater well to students and graduates. We don't cater well to people from heartland areas who move around the country for work or study. We don't cater well to people who want to buy good quality merchandise. We don't cater well to people who want to consumer RL content online. 

None of those issues are issues of geography. They're issues that we're not even addressing with the people on our doorstep. 

As a sport we produce a lot of content - even more of it now that IMG are a partner - and we need to spread that content. We need to stop seeing success simply through the metrics of attendances, and around much broader metrics of reach and engagement - because if we can build an audience for people who like our stuff, we can sell that audience to commercial partners. I don't think having teams in Leigh, Wigan or Castleford stops us from doing that. 

What you're overlooking is that the audience problem is a direct result of the geography problem.

The game can't cater to those other demographics you mention without a lot more money to spend on upgrading its presentation, but its stunted geography means that it can't attract the sort of money needed to make those upgrades.  The sort of money needed is nowhere to be found in those heartland towns, and there's no way to attract it into those towns either.

So yes, having top-tier teams in Leigh, Wigan or Castleford does stop the sport from doing that because they're nowhere near fashionable enough.  When the norm in other sports is national and international competitions with the top teams based largely in big cities, I suggest that there's no evidence that those other demographics can be attracted to a small regional competition whereas the notion that they can't be is much more likely.