daz39 Posted January 19 Author Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, Eddie said: It will be Kev Davy owning it I think, not the Giants. For the record I also think it’s nuts to leave Huddersfield with no plan to get back, that can kill any club, though I’m sure Davy knows a lot more than me about it. There is a plan, obviously the club aren't going to give it out in public until it's finalised. 1 HGSA.org.uk proudly partnering with https://www.sportsandbetting.net/ the ultimate destination for people who enjoy sports betting.
whatmichaelsays Posted January 19 Posted January 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said: If only it were that simple! Super League and the individual clubs within it all need to completely refresh their brands, with a view to filling stadia, no matter what their capacity. That won't be achieved by cheap pricing. Nor will it be achieved by advertising a poor product. The product has to be carefully re-defined, re-presented and personalised. Their current stadium offers more potential for doing that than does The Shay. Nobody said anything about anything being simple. And you seem to repeating my points back to me. But I disagree on your last point. The history of the Giants in SL and, frankly, recent history of international crowds in Huddersfield, suggets that the John Smiths is not the right venue for rugby league in Huddersfield. The Giants struggle to fill even a quarter of it, that impacts the quality of the matchday experience and that diminishes the "product" that the Giants are selling. Even when the Giants had a far better side than they have now, even the discounted tickets they offered then couldn't get people into that venue. I think that the Giants need a smaller venue in which they can reinvent themselves, their identity and what they offer the people of Huddersfield, and that appears to be the view that Ken Davy has taken. You want the Giants to spend money on marketing, and this project shows that they are - they're dealing with the most important of the four Ps. Edited January 19 by whatmichaelsays 2
M j M Posted January 19 Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: I think that the Giants need a smaller venue in which they can reinvent themselves, their identity and what they offer the people of Huddersfield, and that appears to be the view that Ken Davy has taken. I don't think anybody is disputing this. But the answer is not to move to play in front of even smaller crowds in a different town. 4
whatmichaelsays Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Just now, M j M said: I don't think anybody is disputing this. But the answer is not to move to play in front of even smaller crowds in a different town. I'm not saying it is, and I said in my previous reply that there is plenty to question about whether an interim move to Halifax is the right one. Part of me thinks that this is a little bit of brinksmanship from Davy to try and get some support for a "new Giants stadium" project from the local authority - he wouldn't have been the first to try that trick - but who knows? 1
Eddie Posted January 19 Posted January 19 2 hours ago, daz39 said: There is a plan, obviously the club aren't going to give it out in public until it's finalised. Absolutely, a man as astute as Ken Davy will make sure of that. He must have somewhere in Huddersfield tee’d up.
Dave T Posted January 20 Posted January 20 If there is one thing I dislike is fans blindly lapping up what an owner tells them, because he is 'a successful businessman'. These successful businessmen also make plenty of bad decisions, people should maybe be a little more challenging of their owners imo. 7
Tommygilf Posted January 20 Posted January 20 13 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said: Part of me thinks that this is a little bit of brinksmanship from Davy to try and get some support for a "new Giants stadium" project from the local authority It has a lot of that about this, particularly given taking on the Shay would be helping Calderdale Council too, showing a willingness to work with an LA.
DoubleD Posted January 20 Posted January 20 https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/huddersfield-giants-close-to-identifying-potential-site-for-new-stadium-in-huddersfield/
DoubleD Posted January 20 Posted January 20 8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: It has a lot of that about this, particularly given taking on the Shay would be helping Calderdale Council too, showing a willingness to work with an LA. I have no doubt this has a large part to do with it............they're about to announce a site in Huddersfield to go to pre planning application stage so this will be a lever to get the support to get this over the line 1
M j M Posted January 20 Posted January 20 18 minutes ago, Dave T said: If there is one thing I dislike is fans blindly lapping up what an owner tells them, because he is 'a successful businessman'. These successful businessmen also make plenty of bad decisions, people should maybe be a little more challenging of their owners imo. 100% this. If all you knew about Ken Davy was his skills in the business of running Huddersfield Giants you would think he was an appalling businessman. 3
Tommygilf Posted January 20 Posted January 20 20 minutes ago, DoubleD said: I have no doubt this has a large part to do with it............they're about to announce a site in Huddersfield to go to pre planning application stage so this will be a lever to get the support to get this over the line Definitely going to need it too I would have thought. The Gasworks St site and Fartown being non starters narrows the options a fair bit. In terms of open land near the town centre it's looking very very limited.
Martyn Sadler Posted January 20 Posted January 20 14 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said: Nobody said anything about anything being simple. And you seem to repeating my points back to me. But I disagree on your last point. The history of the Giants in SL and, frankly, recent history of international crowds in Huddersfield, suggets that the John Smiths is not the right venue for rugby league in Huddersfield. The Giants struggle to fill even a quarter of it, that impacts the quality of the matchday experience and that diminishes the "product" that the Giants are selling. Even when the Giants had a far better side than they have now, even the discounted tickets they offered then couldn't get people into that venue. I think that the Giants need a smaller venue in which they can reinvent themselves, their identity and what they offer the people of Huddersfield, and that appears to be the view that Ken Davy has taken. You want the Giants to spend money on marketing, and this project shows that they are - they're dealing with the most important of the four Ps. I quite often attend the Giants' home games for Friday night matches and I couldn't disagree more strongly with your contention that their current home isn't the right venue for them. It's an elegant stadium with comfortable seats and good sight lines for all spectators and there have been many occasions in which the atmosphere has been as good as most others in the league. But in recent years in particular the Giants have failed to connect with their potential audience. They would have failed to do this regardless of the size or location of their stadium. They keep making terrible decisions, including on recruitment and the payment of players (see our recent Podcast with John Kear) and that is desperately disappointing. In short, their problems have got nothing to do with their stadium and I don't believe the local authority will grant them permission for another one.
The Phantom Horseman Posted January 20 Posted January 20 59 minutes ago, Dave T said: If there is one thing I dislike is fans blindly lapping up what an owner tells them, because he is 'a successful businessman'. These successful businessmen also make plenty of bad decisions, people should maybe be a little more challenging of their owners imo. Agree 100%, but would point out there's already a 40-page thread on this theme on the Politics sub-forum, it's entitled "Twitter". 1 "I won’t engage in a debate because the above is correct and if anything else is stated to the contrary it’s incorrect."
M j M Posted January 20 Posted January 20 I have a somewhat brutal view of Huddersfield Giants. But I'll start with the positives, I suspect they are the club which has grown its attendances, % wise, the most over the past 40 years. They have achieved a lot just to get from where they were to where they are and have some amazingly resilient and loyal fans. But it's the future that matters. If I think of the Giants what comes to mind to me looking in from the outside: A weak brand and name, a cr&p mascot and an old fanbase. A mostly-empty stadium with a poor atmosphere that still after all these years doesn't look and feel like they belong there. It's an away game I mark down as "meh" about missing even though games between my club and them are usually close and often contentious. I do honestly agree that fixing the stadium would begin to solve a lot of their problems. But of course it won't address all of them. I think the entire club and its image, how it connects to and relates to the town of Huddersfield, could do with an overhaul. You could say this for a lot of other clubs, no doubt, but at Huddersfield it's compounded because even though they have a place where they play they don't to me seem like they have a home. Clubs like Wigan and Hull can get away in somewhat similar circumstances because of how entrenched Rugby League is as a spectator sport there but the stadium, which was such a bonus for Huddersfield 20 or 30 years ago now really does hamper their prospects for the future. 5
Just Browny Posted January 20 Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Dave T said: If there is one thing I dislike is fans blindly lapping up what an owner tells them, because he is 'a successful businessman'. These successful businessmen also make plenty of bad decisions, people should maybe be a little more challenging of their owners imo. Strongly agree. There's no track record of Huddersfield Giant being run as a successful or ruthless business. They have always been Ken Davy's side project and lots of money has been spent on very little progress. They do of course always stick to the rules and cause none of the drama we've had with Salford and Wakefield at various times, but too many people believe he is paying 4d chess with us all. 1 hour ago, DoubleD said: I have no doubt this has a large part to do with it............they're about to announce a site in Huddersfield to go to pre planning application stage so this will be a lever to get the support to get this over the line I have a doubt, because the Shay falls under Calderdale Council, whereas any stadium in Huddersfield would need planning permission from Kirklees Council. Doing Calderdale a favour is not going to count for anything with the neighbouring local authority. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.
M j M Posted January 20 Posted January 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Just Browny said: I have a doubt, because the Shay falls under Calderdale Council, whereas any stadium in Huddersfield would need planning permission from Kirklees Council. Doing Calderdale a favour is not going to count for anything with the neighbouring local authority. Is the lever not that they are threatening to leave the council area entirely, which most councils would consider a very bad thing for their sports teams. (I've no idea how effective a lever that is in Huddersfield but I think the prospect of building a new stadium with the associated investment would be a carrot regardless and leaving town entirely threatens that). Edited January 20 by M j M
whatmichaelsays Posted January 20 Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said: I quite often attend the Giants' home games for Friday night matches and I couldn't disagree more strongly with your contention that their current home isn't the right venue for them. It's an elegant stadium with comfortable seats and good sight lines for all spectators and there have been many occasions in which the atmosphere has been as good as most others in the league. But in recent years in particular the Giants have failed to connect with their potential audience. They would have failed to do this regardless of the size or location of their stadium. They keep making terrible decisions, including on recruitment and the payment of players (see our recent Podcast with John Kear) and that is desperately disappointing. In short, their problems have got nothing to do with their stadium and I don't believe the local authority will grant them permission for another one. Then it's fine that we disagree. But I will say that as a customer of the sport, my opinion isn't invalid and isn't incorrect - and I suspect that the Giants (or at least, Davy) will have done enough customer and market research to reach the conclusion that he has. As a supporter / customer, Huddersfield is one of the away days that I get least excited about and that has nothing to do with the Huddersfield team and their recruitment.
Just Browny Posted January 20 Posted January 20 17 minutes ago, M j M said: Is the lever not that they are threatening to leave the council area entirely, which most councils would consider a very bad thing for their sports teams. (I've no idea how effective a lever that is in Huddersfield but I think the prospect of building a new stadium with the associated investment would be a carrot regardless and leaving town entirely threatens that). I can get my head round that but it does seem like high stakes stuff. And as Kirklees Council I'd be asking how and why the Giants will afford to refurbish the Shay and build a new stadium at the same time, when the new income is a slightly fantastical belief that Halifax Panthers or Town will come into some wealth in the future. 1 I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.
Martyn Sadler Posted January 20 Posted January 20 38 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: Then it's fine that we disagree. But I will say that as a customer of the sport, my opinion isn't invalid and isn't incorrect - and I suspect that the Giants (or at least, Davy) will have done enough customer and market research to reach the conclusion that he has. As a supporter / customer, Huddersfield is one of the away days that I get least excited about and that has nothing to do with the Huddersfield team and their recruitment. I can perfectly understand your point of view. I think we both agree on the fundamentals.
Blind side johnny Posted January 20 Posted January 20 On 17/01/2025 at 18:00, Martyn Sadler said: The RFL should slap it down and the Giants should be told to spend the money they would spend on The Shay on marketing their club to the people of Huddersfield and the surrounding district. The club's marketing and promotional effort appears to be largely non-existent. No doubt you would welcome being told how you can spend your money Martyn? This isn't simply the Giants money, it is Ken Davy's that he is proposing spending on their behalf. 1 Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.
Blind side johnny Posted January 20 Posted January 20 8 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Definitely going to need it too I would have thought. The Gasworks St site and Fartown being non starters narrows the options a fair bit. In terms of open land near the town centre it's looking very very limited. Was "town centre" a requirement? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.
Tommygilf Posted January 20 Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Was "town centre" a requirement? I suppose Huddersfield isn't that big, but one would assume given those two were the suggested sites explored to now that a central(ish) location would be the preferred option, rather than Laund Hill say (that Davy owns iirc).
Blind side johnny Posted January 21 Posted January 21 14 hours ago, Tommygilf said: I suppose Huddersfield isn't that big, but one would assume given those two were the suggested sites explored to now that a central(ish) location would be the preferred option, rather than Laund Hill say (that Davy owns iirc). OK. In my opinion there should be plenty of potential sites along the Leeds Rd corridor - not as central but certainly accessible. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted January 21 Posted January 21 14 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: No doubt you would welcome being told how you can spend your money Martyn? This isn't simply the Giants money, it is Ken Davy's that he is proposing spending on their behalf. They don't need to tell him how to spend his money, they just need to say that Huddersfield can't use The Shay as their home ground.
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