Thur 19th Sept: SL: Wigan Warriors v Salford Red Devils KO 20:00

[Worzel]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That was in the past Segovia, but now that supporters of some clubs have moved up a notch they consider themselves to be in the Elite because they are doing Good at the moment, but seemingly want to deny others the opportunity to emulate them.

Also they should remember in this temporary state they are enjoying, that they should be nice to the people they pass on the way up, for they will most likely pass them again on the way back down.

My club is doing well at the moment, but I have been on this roller coaster ride with them before of plenty ups and downs, and so wary of what the future may bring, take heed @Worzel if you were about in the 80's did you consider that not a great number of years later as a club you would be struggling both on and off the field, it could happen again.

I was there in the 80’s, the 90’s and the 00’s so I need no lessons from you or anyone else on what is possible, good and bad. I was also a member at London for 20 years alongside that, so I know all ends of the experience that is rugby league. The fact Hull KR are better at the moment doesn’t invalidate my opinions, I’ve been pretty consistent on my approach to this sport’s governance and strategy (or lack of) throughout.

If you want to engage on the merits my points of view, I’ll discuss them with you all day. But please don’t dismiss them as coming from some sort of short-term hubris. They’re not, and that’s beneath you. 

[up the robins]

1 hour ago, Segovia Carpet said:

& I remember quite vividly not so long ago too when HKR fans arrived at Salford in a Taxi - a 4 seater one at that.

At least it doubled your attendance for the game.

[Jinking Jimmy]

The LLS is won by the team that gains the most number of competition points over 27 rounds. Not every game is played between 2 full strength teams and so some easier points are gained because one team has a lot of injuries. For example HKR beat a very weak St Helens team recently. I know what Salford did is different to an injury forced situation but Wigan won the LLS over 27 rounds, not just last night.

Edited September 20 by Jinking Jimmy

[sentoffagain2]

  Although it looked a bad advert for the sport Rowley had the right to pick a weakened team.The play offs will need Salford players who are fully fit and not carrying injuries or knocks.It showed that the team lacked match practice together as some of the passing was way off.I think Wigan scored 3 tries from Salford passing movements imploding.The players though never stopped trying and i saw more effort from them last night than in some games played by Huddersfield, Cas and HullFC this season.Congratulations to Wigan  they beat KR in the game that mattered so deserve the Shield.But they are beatable winning the grand final is not a forgone conclusion.

[Worzel]

22 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

The LLS is won by the team that gains the most number of competition points over 27 rounds. Not every game is played between 2 full strength teams and so some easier points are gained because one team has a lot of injuries. For example HKR beat a very weak St Helens team recently. I know what Salford did is different to an injury forced situation but Wigan won the LLS over 27 rounds, not just last night.

Wigan rightly won the LLS, they're by far the strongest side in the comp and if anyone beats them in the Grand Final they'll have had to earn it.

That said, Hull KR facing a Saints side with a few injuries (all clubs have matches like that) isn't the same thing as what happened last night. 

[up the robins]

Congratulations to Wigan they are the worthy champions, as they Finnished top after 27 rounds.

Wigan would of won regardless of what team Salford put out last night because they are a top team that does what it has too to get the job done.

Now I'm not just having ago at Salford as other clubs including my own (which I was vocally against at the time) have done the same, but dropping almost your full squad damages the product and is unfair on the paying public and tv who pay for these games. 

We complain that sky don't take us seriously but when given a prime time slot we offer a very poor product, yes rest the odd player with a niggle but that last night is embarrassing and is exactly what's wrong with our sport we don't take our own game serious so why should others.

[phiggins]

I don't particularly have a problem with what Salford did, given the circumstances and precedents already set this year and last. But it does feel we're at a stage where something has to give.

We have clubs saying they want 13 home games, but not 13 different opponents. Meanwhile the RFL want clubs to put out their strongest teams, while at the same time impose limits on the number of minutes players play. They restrict the minutes played, but keep golden point and Magic Weekend.

Ultimately, we need to play less games. If we are to keep 12 teams, then get rid of loop fixtures, and either have group stages at the early round of the Challenge cup to get an extra guaranteed home game, or a new competition that is designed to give game time to more fringe players.

[Harry Stottle]

35 minutes ago, Worzel said:

I was there in the 80’s, the 90’s and the 00’s so I need no lessons from you or anyone else on what is possible, good and bad. I was also a member at London for 20 years alongside that, so I know all ends of the experience that is rugby league. The fact Hull KR are better at the moment doesn’t invalidate my opinions, I’ve been pretty consistent on my approach to this sport’s governance and strategy (or lack of) throughout.

If you want to engage on the merits my points of view, I’ll discuss them with you all day. But please don’t dismiss them as coming from some sort of short-term hubris. They’re not, and that’s beneath you. 

I wasn't decrying you Worzel, but the tone of your post re Salford and Huddersfield was pretty condescending, if not damning. And I consider you are better than that.

I will PM you.

[DG70]

Well deserved for Wigan, the table doesn't lie they are the outstanding team in the SL, as for Salford they are a genuine top 4 side on merit and Rowley has earned the right to select his team for whatever reason the circumstances dictate, that is what a reserve team is actually for in the first place.

[Gooleboy]

Well done to Wigan, they were the best team over the season. I see them as favourites to win the GF, but they are beatable. I hope Warrington, Hull KR or both make the final as I am sure they will put up a good show. Hats off too to Rowley for getting Salford to 4th/5th place, and I don't have an issue with what he did last night. You have to question Sky for picking last nights fixture, doesn't anyone at the RFL  have any input into the games selected for TV? There was better choices than this game available last night.

[Padge]

Shaun Wayne being interviewed was once asked about Wigan's injuries, he dismissed it and replied "that is why you have a squad".

Using your squad to your best advantage is good management.

This type of thing has gone on since 1895 and probably earlier.

 

[Bod]

The shield and prize money needs to be withdrawn again and then this won't matter again. Uneven fixtures and teams gifting results  to others can't ever be classed as a viable competition.

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I wasn't decrying you Worzel, but the tone of your post re Salford and Huddersfield was pretty condescending, if not damning. And I consider you are better than that.

I will PM you.

You're right, I am better than that. It was deliberately flippant to spark debate, I'll grant you that. But it wasn't directed at another poster, or saying that their opinions had less validity, so not the same thing as your own comment. I think you know that. 

The reality is that neither Salford nor Huddersfield have the platform to support sustainably elite sides, despite having had many decades in Super League to build them.

Personally I hold no firm desire for them to leave the league really, but they're a good example of how promotion & relegation isn't always the best judge of which clubs are assets to the comp. The actions of Salford this week have actively undermined value creation for our sport, which is business critical for all the other clubs. Similarly, Ken Davy's advocacy for further disadvantages for Catalans to "level the playing field" for his own under-resourced club are also negative for the wider game. I'd prefer it if the weaker clubs were at least trying to help the greater good, or at the very least not actively damaging it. It's not much to ask.   

[Gerrumonside ref]

Salford are preserving their strength for the real deal - a chance to win the Grand Final!

[Gerrumonside ref]

Worse things happen at sea btw.

[Jinking Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Worzel said:

Wigan rightly won the LLS, they're by far the strongest side in the comp and if anyone beats them in the Grand Final they'll have had to earn it.

That said, Hull KR facing a Saints side with a few injuries (all clubs have matches like that) isn't the same thing as what happened last night. 

 

3 hours ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

The LLS is won by the team that gains the most number of competition points over 27 rounds. Not every game is played between 2 full strength teams and so some easier points are gained because one team has a lot of injuries. For example HKR beat a very weak St Helens team recently. I know what Salford did is different to an injury forced situation but Wigan won the LLS over 27 rounds, not just last night.

I think I stressed that fact.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Well done to Wigan, they were the best team over the season. I see them as favourites to win the GF, but they are beatable. I hope Warrington, Hull KR or both make the final as I am sure they will put up a good show. Hats off too to Rowley for getting Salford to 4th/5th place, and I don't have an issue with what he did last night. You have to question Sky for picking last nights fixture, doesn't anyone at the RFL  have any input into the games selected for TV? There was better choices than this game available last night.

What other sport would claim 1st v 4th with the LLS up for grabs is a poor tv call? This would be a tv game every single year and in any sport!

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Worzel said:

 Similarly, Ken Davy's advocacy for further disadvantages for Catalans to "level the playing field" for his own under-resourced club are also negative for the wider game.

What's that about?

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

What other sport would claim 1st v 4th with the LLS up for grabs is a poor tv call? This would be a tv game every single year and in any sport!

They could have had the Hull KR or Warrington game scheduled for the same time then made that the main tv offering when Salford declared their intentions, because that mismatch last night did nothing for the game.

[Dovster]

IMO This is just one more case of our sport suffering from weak leadership and allowing the clubs to do as they please.

We have been in this position for many years and I'm not sure how this can be turned around.

The sport is at the mercy of self interested and very short sighted club owners.

Salford made the right decision for Salford and this is within our rules.

SL has been undermined and people seem to be blind to it. 

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

What other sport would claim 1st v 4th with the LLS up for grabs is a poor tv call? This would be a tv game every single year and in any sport!

There is a BBC article titled 'Super League has drama it craves in season finale' on their Rugby League page.

There was no drama for the League Leaders Shield, for multiple reasons, that drama disappeared and it was all our own doing.

Once again, the biggest enemy of Rugby League is Rugby League. 

[MrIzzard]

6 hours ago, Worzel said:

You're right, I am better than that. It was deliberately flippant to spark debate, I'll grant you that. But it wasn't directed at another poster, or saying that their opinions had less validity, so not the same thing as your own comment. I think you know that. 

The reality is that neither Salford nor Huddersfield have the platform to support sustainably elite sides, despite having had many decades in Super League to build them.

Personally I hold no firm desire for them to leave the league really, but they're a good example of how promotion & relegation isn't always the best judge of which clubs are assets to the comp. The actions of Salford this week have actively undermined value creation for our sport, which is business critical for all the other clubs. Similarly, Ken Davy's advocacy for further disadvantages for Catalans to "level the playing field" for his own under-resourced club are also negative for the wider game. I'd prefer it if the weaker clubs were at least trying to help the greater good, or at the very least not actively damaging it. It's not much to ask.   

St Helens have been the most pro active at fielding weaker teams to gain advantage-more despicable holding back players from international selection for the very same advantage blatantly damaging the competition, but they are a "Big club" and it was ok for them but lowly or weaker as you put it Salford do it and people can't wait to put the boot in,a case of Rugby league snobbery at its finest. 

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, MrIzzard said:

St Helens have been the most pro active at fielding weaker teams to gain advantage-more despicable holding back players from international selection for the very same advantage blatantly damaging the competition, but they are a "Big club" and it was ok for them but lowly or weaker as you put it Salford do it and people can't wait to put the boot in,a case of Rugby league snobbery at its finest. 

Yes, nobody ever criticises Saints. Or Wigan.

Universally loved.

[StandOffHalf]

8 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Well done to Wigan, they were the best team over the season. I see them as favourites to win the GF, but they are beatable. I hope Warrington, Hull KR or both make the final as I am sure they will put up a good show. Hats off too to Rowley for getting Salford to 4th/5th place, and I don't have an issue with what he did last night. You have to question Sky for picking last nights fixture, doesn't anyone at the RFL  have any input into the games selected for TV? There was better choices than this game available last night.

The game that decides the LLS has to be televised IMO.

[johnh1]

Yes, but they could have televised HKR v Leeds on Thursday, then Wigan v Salford on Friday. Or covered both on the same day. Problem solved.