David Hughes

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I think he did it deliberately.

He's treated us all, including the RFL just like he's treated everybody else with an interest in the club. ''I'm doing it my way and if you don't like it, you can lump it!''. The sheer effrontery of the RFL/IMG trying to impose ''standards'' on him, something he failed spectacularly to establish, on his own. ''How dare they?''.

So knowing (for at least 12 months), that they weren't going to be in Super League, he's pulled the plug in a way which he's carefully contrived to cause the maximum damage to the club, disruption to the league and embarrassment to the RFL.

Thanks Dave, thanks for nothing. Good Riddance.

I just hope we can find someone with a little more humility, some genuine love of the game and more than a mere modicum of business acumen.

If it were football it would be a "banter era". I also strongly suspect he would not be welcome back at the club without a change in attitudes.

Edited October 18 by Tommygilf

[Worzel]

The move away from Ealing was classic David Hughes. Of course that stadium wasn't good enough for Super League, but it did provide a sustainable platform for a club unlikely to be in Super League that often in the short-medium-term, and something to build on in terms of the improving community game locally. It was exactly the right place to build steadily from, rather than boom and bust, which is the whole point of the IMG-led era. 

The club had been within 20 mins travel time of Ealing for over 20 years, aside from a small sojourn in Barnet. Ealing, Brentford, Twickenham are all pretty close and well connected, and that had given the club a real sense of place. Broncos were a West London club, with West London networks. All of that was thrown away on a whim, and for what? London is more a region than it is a place, moving from Ealing to Wimbledon was like relocating Hull KR to Castleford... to do that and expect people to stay with the club was naive in the extreme (even if you did it well, with goodwill, which Hughes didn't...). He basically said "#### you" to most of the current supporter base, and decided to start from scratch in another town.

I said it would be the death of the club at the time, and it is beyond upsetting to see that come true. So depressing. 

[nadera78]

Dave Hughes' behaviour is perfectly understandable to anyone who has ever had any dealings with Vitol, the business he spent 40 years with. Their negotiating strategy can best be described as "Do as we say or the deal's off" which is fine if you are a company of their size and importance with a particular industry. If, however, you're a small club in a small sport with no money and no leverage then it tends not to work out so well.

[Worzel]

50 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Dave Hughes' behaviour is perfectly understandable to anyone who has ever had any dealings with Vitol, the business he spent 40 years with. Their negotiating strategy can best be described as "Do as we say or the deal's off" which is fine if you are a company of their size and importance with a particular industry. If, however, you're a small club in a small sport with no money and no leverage then it tends not to work out so well.

You're not wrong. This article gives a decent insight into the firm... supplying oil to Libyan rebels and Milosevic's regime (via Arkan of all people!), and buying it off an under-international-sanctions Iran! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/vitol-tough-work-but-staff-stay-loyal-due-to-huge-bonuses-9624344.html

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Worzel said:

You're not wrong. This article gives a decent insight into the firm... supplying oil to Libyan rebels and Milosevic's regime (via Arkan of all people!), and buying it off an under-international-sanctions Iran! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/vitol-tough-work-but-staff-stay-loyal-due-to-huge-bonuses-9624344.html

I didn't know any of that but it all makes sense now. Thanks. 

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

I didn't know any of that but it all makes sense now. Thanks. 

Imagine what sort of person you have to be to not only survive but thrive in that environment? Hughes set up Vitol's entire LNG business, which would have involved doing God-knows-what with some pretty disreputable characters in the Gulf. A shrinking violet that man is not! 

[EssexRL]

I was born (in 1963) and bought up in Berkshire and from the 80s was able to watch pro RL in London and attend internationals at Wembley. My son was born in 1988 in Kent (now lives in London) and we watched Broncos and Skolars regularly together from the 1990s  until a year or so ago. My grandson was been born in London (2 miles from Skolars ground) and most likely none of us are going to be able to watch top level RL in the capital at club or international level.  The nearest semi-pro/pro sides to me, my son and grandson now are Doncaster (L1), Championship Wakefield and SL Leeds.

I appreciate there are problems else where (and yes Broncos and Skolars own a degree of blame for where we are) but really how is it that the sport has no strategy for London?

Sad.

Edited October 18 by EssexRL

[Gav Wilson]

53 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

I was born (in 1963) and bought up in Berkshire and from the 80s was able to watch pro RL in London and attend internationals at Wembley. My son was born in 1988 in Kent (now lives in London) and we watched Broncos and Skolars regularly together from the 1990s  until a year or so ago. My grandson was been born in London (2 miles from Skolars ground) and most likely none of us are going to be able to watch top level RL in the capital at club or international level.  The nearest semi-pro/pro sides to me, my son and grandson now are Doncaster (L1), Championship Wakefield and SL Leeds.

I appreciate there are problems else where (and yes Broncos and Skolars own a degree of blame for where we are) but really how is it that the sport has no strategy for London?

Sad.

Appreciate you're not as close to the game as you once were mate and this probably emphasises your point, but Donny finished 8th in the Championship this year. Midlands in L1 would probably be the closest if the Broncos go under. 

[EssexRL]

11 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Appreciate you're not as close to the game as you once were mate and this probably emphasises your point, but Donny finished 8th in the Championship this year. Midlands in L1 would probably be the closest if the Broncos go under. 

I guess my point is that I would need to travel quite a bit outside of London (certainly not to somewhere covered by my Oyster card!) to be able to watch RL - and that hasn't been the case since 1980. That says something about the state of the game not just the two London clubs.

[Archie Gordon]

10 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

I guess my point is that I would need to travel quite a bit outside of London (certainly not to somewhere covered by my Oyster card!) to be able to watch RL - and that hasn't been the case since 1980. That says something about the state of the game not just the two London clubs.

There's some good community RL within striking distance. I think that will be the limit of my RL in this country from now on. But it's great stuff.

[EssexRL]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

There's some good community RL within striking distance. I think that will be the limit of my RL in this country from now on. But it's great stuff.

Totally agree and that's my future with the sport but I mean....

[Enkidudu]

1 hour ago, EssexRL said:

I was born (in 1963) and bought up in Berkshire and from the 80s was able to watch pro RL in London and attend internationals at Wembley. My son was born in 1988 in Kent (now lives in London) and we watched Broncos and Skolars regularly together from the 1990s  until a year or so ago. My grandson was been born in London (2 miles from Skolars ground) and most likely none of us are going to be able to watch top level RL in the capital at club or international level.  The nearest semi-pro/pro sides to me, my son and grandson now are Doncaster (L1), Championship Wakefield and SL Leeds.

I appreciate there are problems else where (and yes Broncos and Skolars own a degree of blame for where we are) but really how is it that the sport has no strategy for London?

Sad.

Why should the RFL have a separate strategy for London when it has been very difficult to crack? I believe areas outside London would be a better target. 

[EssexRL]

16 minutes ago, Enkidudu said:

Why should the RFL have a separate strategy for London when it has been very difficult to crack? I believe areas outside London would be a better target. 

...because:

1. London is the capital

2. London is a huge market that includes many people from the heartlands, as well as ex-pats form Aus, NZ, Pacific Islands etc.,

3. The game isn't extending in the North (and is declining in Cumbria). How many people will be at Wigan for the international?

 

 

[creditwhereitsdews]

London is also the place where the movers and shakers are. I was down there a few weeks ago to play 5-a-side football and got talking to a couple of young guys from the opposing team in the pub after. Turned out they were live bloggers for a sports website in the city and when they asked which football team I supported, I sheepishly (but proudly) said I was actually an RL fan. Fully expecting an awkward silence before I fetched my coat, I was shocked when they said "oh we love rugby league" and went on to talk about that morning's NRL matches and their visits to Broncos matches this season and how good Hakim Miloudi was.

A couple of days later I went to the London v Leeds Rhinos match on a sunny afternoon and sat among a healthy and widely diverse crowd watching a thrilling game of RL, with the home team made up largely of players from areas where the sport is in its infancy. Lots of kids and families, all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, everyone cheering the action on the field rather than hurling abuse at the ref. This, I thought, is what rugby league in 2024 should be about.

I just cannot see how the sport can give up on this. 

I love heartlands RL but I just can't see how the M62 clubs can so easily just cut the Broncos adrift without any parachute payment, or some sort of help and at the same time pillage their players and squander six-figure sums on rejects from the NRL, just for short-term gain. If we're ever going to have any sort of a national profile then the Broncos are the key to it.

[EssexRL]

10 minutes ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

London is also the place where the movers and shakers are. I was down there a few weeks ago to play 5-a-side football and got talking to a couple of young guys from the opposing team in the pub after. Turned out they were live bloggers for a sports website in the city and when they asked which football team I supported, I sheepishly (but proudly) said I was actually an RL fan. Fully expecting an awkward silence before I fetched my coat, I was shocked when they said "oh we love rugby league" and went on to talk about that morning's NRL matches and their visits to Broncos matches this season and how good Hakim Miloudi was.

A couple of days later I went to the London v Leeds Rhinos match on a sunny afternoon and sat among a healthy and widely diverse crowd watching a thrilling game of RL, with the home team made up largely of players from areas where the sport is in its infancy. Lots of kids and families, all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, everyone cheering the action on the field rather than hurling abuse at the ref. This, I thought, is what rugby league in 2024 should be about.

I just cannot see how the sport can give up on this. 

I love heartlands RL but I just can't see how the M62 clubs can so easily just cut the Broncos adrift without any parachute payment, or some sort of help and at the same time pillage their players and squander six-figure sums on rejects from the NRL, just for short-term gain. If we're ever going to have any sort of a national profile then the Broncos are the key to it.

This 

[DoubleD]

8 hours ago, Worzel said:

You're not wrong. This article gives a decent insight into the firm... supplying oil to Libyan rebels and Milosevic's regime (via Arkan of all people!), and buying it off an under-international-sanctions Iran! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/vitol-tough-work-but-staff-stay-loyal-due-to-huge-bonuses-9624344.html

Companies like Vitol and Trafigura are as shady as they come when it involves dealings.

It doesn’t take too much to work out how Russian oil continues to flow

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, Enkidudu said:

Why should the RFL have a separate strategy for London when it has been very difficult to crack? I believe areas outside London would be a better target. 

The fact that London has been difficult to crack is the exact reason why the RFL should have a seperate strategy for it.

Assuming of course having a professional presence in the British capital and one of the global financial capitals is a good idea.

A shell of a club, what if the NRL were to purchase the professional licence from the RFL and then launch a rebranded London club in League 1 and sub contract to the RFL as development manager of the entire sport in London and the South East from grassroots to professional.

Edited October 18 by Sports Prophet

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, EssexRL said:

...because:

1. London is the capital

2. London is a huge market that includes many people from the heartlands, as well as ex-pats form Aus, NZ, Pacific Islands etc.,

3. The game isn't extending in the North (and is declining in Cumbria). How many people will be at Wigan for the international?

But....

London is unquestionably a major league sports town to use North American parlance, but the opponents available to London in RL all come from minor league sports towns.

It's no more possible to get Londoners interested in a team playing opponents like those than it would be to get New Yorkers interested in a team playing the likes of Springfield, Illinois or Lansing, Michigan rather than Chicago and Detroit.  In the big city something has to be big to attract that sort of notice.

[Click]

12 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

But....

London is unquestionably a major league sports town to use North American parlance, but the opponents available to London in RL all come from minor league sports towns.

It's no more possible to get Londoners interested in a team playing opponents like those than it would be to get New Yorkers interested in a team playing the likes of Springfield, Illinois or Lansing, Michigan rather than Chicago and Detroit.  In the big city something has to be big to attract that sort of notice.

Except Londoners have come out to watch teams from SL in the past. Your analogy is strange. 

And you cannot compare the UK sports market with the North American one, it isn't remotely similar.

[Big Picture]

15 minutes ago, Click said:

Except Londoners have come out to watch teams from SL in the past. Your analogy is strange. 

And you cannot compare the UK sports market with the North American one, it isn't remotely similar.

They have, but not in anything close to the numbers needed.  Playing opponents from places Londoners have never heard of is surely part of that problem. 

[Click]

8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

They have, but not in anything close to the numbers needed.  Playing opponents from places Londoners have never heard of is surely part of that problem. 

Our country isn't that big.

[nadera78]

9 hours ago, Big Picture said:

But....

London is unquestionably a major league sports town to use North American parlance, but the opponents available to London in RL all come from minor league sports towns.

It's no more possible to get Londoners interested in a team playing opponents like those than it would be to get New Yorkers interested in a team playing the likes of Springfield, Illinois or Lansing, Michigan rather than Chicago and Detroit.  In the big city something has to be big to attract that sort of notice.

1. This isn't true. Take it from a born and bred Londoner who supported the Broncos for 25+ years.

2. Even if it was true - again, it isn't - it would absolutely the last thing on the list of problems the club faced.

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, Click said:

Except Londoners have come out to watch teams from SL in the past. Your analogy is strange. 

And you cannot compare the UK sports market with the North American one, it isn't remotely similar.

It's a weird point of view that he keeps repeating. As if, for example, England don't sell out for games at Lord's versus the West Indies and Sri Lanka whereas England v USA at Twickenham in union requires a push.

London's basketball opponents include Cheshire, Plymouth and Caledonia. The warped logic suggests that the game against the literal whole of Scotland should be the easiest sell.

[M j M]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's a weird point of view that he keeps repeating. As if, for example, England don't sell out for games at Lord's versus the West Indies and Sri Lanka whereas England v USA at Twickenham in union requires a push.

London's basketball opponents include Cheshire, Plymouth and Caledonia. The warped logic suggests that the game against the literal whole of Scotland should be the easiest sell.

People pay to watch the best. Wigan by Big Picture's logic would not be a team anyone in London would want to watch whereas they get amongst London's best crowds.

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, M j M said:

People pay to watch the best. Wigan by Big Picture's logic would not be a team anyone in London would want to watch whereas they get amongst London's best crowds.

Among their best crowds isn't really saying much though.  I checked London's SL crowd history from the stats compiled by Rugby League Project and found that in the club's history in SL their overall average home crowd was 3,431 and their average home crowd against Wigan only slightly higher than that at 4,885.  Yes Wigan is a slightly bigger draw than the other smallish, unfashionable northern towns but still not that big a draw.