Kangaroos Selection - 2024 including Pong-gate

[Dunbar]

14 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Just to be clear, would you be happy for him to sit out this years matches, but then return and play for Australia next year/ in future?

I'm not saying what I am happy about.

I am simply saying that if a player decides that he doesn't want to be selected for representative rugby then that is his decision.

And if he changes his mind, it is up to the selectors or coach to pick him or not.

[StandOffHalf]

You can't force players to turn out.

You want players who want to be there. Next cab off the rank, and all that...

[Spidey]

The Aussies snub tours, is it any surprise their players follow that example?

[Sports Prophet]

Extended squad announced before the final squad is announced the Monday after GF.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2024-extended-kangaroos-squad-australia-pacific-championships-mal-meninga-jacob-kiraz-news-videos-highlights-connor-watson/news-story/06cd5b1f7d87f5303747bad13d81aad5

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I'm not saying what I am happy about.

I am simply saying that if a player decides that he doesn't want to be selected for representative rugby then that is his decision.

And if he changes his mind, it is up to the selectors or coach to pick him or not.

I’m not with you on this one Dunbar. I welcome players to retire from representative duties as so many have declared in the past.

This isn’t Ponga retiring from representative duties though, it’s him picking and choosing which representative matches he is available for.

My opinion is it should be all in or not in at all.

[StandOffHalf]

Disappointing to see Coates, Kiraz, and even Moses and Staggs reportedly in there. 

I find it so saddening when players jump ship from one country to another, especially jumping upwards. It makes me question how much they wanted to be a part of the first set-up.

Coates is one of the best wingmen in the game and it's easier to stick around in Oz rather than travel for a dead-end post-season second-tier shadow comp. I think this is directly linked to making international footy a post-season affair.

[Dunbar]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m not with you on this one Dunbar. I welcome players to retire from representative duties as so many have declared in the past.

This isn’t Ponga retiring from representative duties though, it’s him picking and choosing which representative matches he is available for.

My opinion is it should be all in or not in at all.

As I say, I am not expressing an opinion.

If I were to express an opinion I would say that the whole sport, governing bodies, leagues, clubs and players should all work together to make the international calendar the pinnacle of the sport and have massive aspirations for success.

But in this conversation I am expressing the reality that Ponga sees it differently.  For whatever reason, he has decided that not playing for Australia for possibly 3 weekends is better for himself and his career.  It is a poor state of affairs but it his his decision and I would rather we don't talk about punishment for him.

[Farmduck]

"The Kalyn Ponga saga has taken another turn with the Knights superstar reportedly a chance to backflip on his decision to rule himself out of Kangaroos selection."

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/knights/kalyn-ponga-relooking-at-his-situation-in-potential-kangaroos-backflip-as-sanction-looms/news-story/b0e6a18fe70e068519737874c445b326

[Jonty58]

Ponga expressed the desire to play for the NZ Union team many years ago when he was just on the Radar as a talent in the NRL

He can do what he wants.

Edited September 27 by Jonty58

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

For whatever reason, he has decided that not playing for Australia for possibly 3 weekends is better for himself and his career.  It is a poor state of affairs but it his his decision and I would rather we don't talk about punishment for him.

But it's a decision that has wider implications for the sport, and in particular the international game. That is why many people are speaking out about it, and the administrators in Australia are clearly concerned by it - to the point that there is talk of various sanctions.

You don't appear to be considering those wider implications when you keep saying it's his decision. It might well be his decision, but it's not then as simple as saying the coach will decide whether to pick him again. That coach will come under a lot of pressure from certain fans who don't think he should be picked again, or at least not for a while (who knows how long for?).

If it was an England playing wanting to sit out the Samoa series, but then play in Australia next year, do you honestly think that would be accepted by everyone on this forum? I think there would be a thread on here with a lot of angry fans saying that he shouldn't be picked next year, because you don't pick and choose when you play for England. I would be one of them.

Use the word consequences, if you don't like calling it punishment, but surely there has to be some consequences when a player does this? What those are I'm happy for people to debate, but you need to do something. Otherwise, where does it stop and what message are you sending out to other players? What happens when another player does it, and another one after that?

As a sport there needs to be a consistent message and response to situations like this. And that doesn't mean heaping the responsibility onto the current coach to sort out the mess.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

But it's a decision that has wider implications for the sport, and in particular the international game. That is why many people are speaking out about it, and the administrators in Australia are clearly concerned by it - to the point that there is talk of various sanctions.

You don't appear to be considering those wider implications when you keep saying it's his decision. It might well be his decision, but it's not then as simple as saying the coach will decide whether to pick him again. That coach will come under a lot of pressure from certain fans who don't think he should be picked again, or at least not for a while (who knows how long for?).

If it was an England playing wanting to sit out the Samoa series, but then play in Australia next year, do you honestly think that would be accepted by everyone on this forum? I think there would be a thread on here with a lot of angry fans saying that he shouldn't be picked next year, because you don't pick and choose when you play for England. I would be one of them.

Use the word consequences, if you don't like calling it punishment, but surely there has to be some consequences when a player does this? What those are I'm happy for people to debate, but you need to do something. Otherwise, where does it stop and what message are you sending out to other players? What happens when another player does it, and another one after that?

As a sport there needs to be a consistent message and response to situations like this. And that doesn't mean heaping the responsibility onto the current coach to sort out the mess.

I'm not saying he should be selected next time.

If a consequence of him deciding not to play this year is the coach not selecting him ever again, I am OK with that.

What I am not OK with is the talk of banning him for NRL rounds or other such punishment. 

[StandOffHalf]

42 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

"The Kalyn Ponga saga has taken another turn with the Knights superstar reportedly a chance to backflip on his decision to rule himself out of Kangaroos selection."

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/knights/kalyn-ponga-relooking-at-his-situation-in-potential-kangaroos-backflip-as-sanction-looms/news-story/b0e6a18fe70e068519737874c445b326

Stay firm, Kalyn!

Back-flipping would just make it look worse IMO, and confirm that he's more worried about Origin.

He's not getting that jumper from Teddy, if things are just. The latter has been immense after unmerited questioning mid-season and has turned in one of the best seasons of his career.

Ponga would have more claim to the #6 if Munster is indeed out. Him and DCE would go well together, I think. Dearden didn't exactly nail down his claims at Origin time. The noises seem to be that Moses will be there. I wonder whether Mal's thinking is to ease out DCE and go with Moses and Dearden (if Munster is also out)?

 

[stookie]

18 hours ago, Dunbar said:

It is up to him if he wants to make himself available for Origin or not.

Technically, this isn't true. There are clauses in their contracts that state they must make themselves available for representative games; it's not a matter of choice. Both international and origin.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, stookie said:

Technically, this isn't true. There are clauses in their contracts that state they must make themselves available for representative games; it's not a matter of choice. Both international and origin.

In that case I take back what I said, if he is breach of contract then that is a different matter.

[stookie]

Not directly from NRL itself, from the SMH, so still a good source:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ponga-backflip-star-makes-himself-available-for-kangaroos-selection-20240927-p5ke5h.html

"Every player’s contract states they must make themselves available for representative selection ..."

[StandOffHalf]

Not a good look for the sport all round, but that's what you're going to get when you make internationals a three-week add-on post-season.

You get a player who'd rather not be there going through the motions.

[MatthewWoody]

On 24/09/2024 at 20:04, Damien said:

Would Ponga have even been picked? There is some competition for the full back spot.

That tells you a lot about the quality of this Kangaroos side. 

[MatthewWoody]

17 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Not a good look for the sport all round, but that's what you're going to get when you make internationals a three-week add-on post-season.

You get a player who'd rather not be there going through the motions.

It happens in other sports, too. 

In basketball for example, sometimes even good and great players take a year off, to focus on their body, rest, etc. I mean they just don't play Internationals in some summers. For example Nikola Jokic didn't play the FIBA Basketball World Cup in 2023, deciding to prioritise rest after leading the Denver Nuggets to their first NBA title

And I believe it's gonna happen in football too, as player nowadays have 50-60 games per season. Or almost. 

Edited September 27 by MatthewWoody

[Keith989]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

Not a good look for the sport all round, but that's what you're going to get when you make internationals a three-week add-on post-season.

You get a player who'd rather not be there going through the motions.

It looks especially bad considering all the talk about playing international rugby for the all blacks a few years ago. Australia only has themselves to blame, they've treated the international game with such contempt.

[John m]

The sooner the NRL goes to a 20 team competition with 19 game regular rounds and state of origin does away with its eligibility rules altogether the better for the international game.

[Anita Bath]

4 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

It happens in other sports, too. 

In basketball for example, sometimes even good and great players take a year off, to focus on their body, rest, etc. I mean they just don't play Internationals in some summers. For example Nikola Jokic didn't play the FIBA Basketball World Cup in 2023, deciding to prioritise rest after leading the Denver Nuggets to their first NBA title

And I believe it's gonna happen in football too, as player nowadays have 50-60 games per season. Or almost. 

In basketball its often the implications of getting injured while on international duty and the implications that has for their contract (current or future).

[John m]

On 27/09/2024 at 00:45, StandOffHalf said:

Disappointing to see Coates, Kiraz, and even Moses and Staggs reportedly in there. 

I find it so saddening when players jump ship from one country to another, especially jumping upwards. It makes me question how much they wanted to be a part of the first set-up.

Coates is one of the best wingmen in the game and it's easier to stick around in Oz rather than travel for a dead-end post-season second-tier shadow comp. I think this is directly linked to making international footy a post-season affair.

Was always going to happen unfortunately with a world class player like Coates.

 

I think he’s only played once for the kumuls in 5 years.

[John m]

Had it not been for origin ponga would have opted to play for the kiwis but sadly international RL isn’t the same draw to some these days.

[MatthewWoody]

4 hours ago, John m said:

Had it not been for origin ponga would have opted to play for the kiwis but sadly international RL isn’t the same draw to some these days.

I think you can play for Kiwis and Origin. 

Ora is it ok only for non tier 1 nations?

[MatthewWoody]

14 hours ago, Keith989 said:

It looks especially bad considering all the talk about playing international rugby for the all blacks a few years ago. Australia only has themselves to blame, they've treated the international game with such contempt.

Still they did more than others for the International game...

See the attendance in England for England games, in Australia for the Kangaroos games, in NZ for the Kiwis games... and now compare it to Origin attendances. 

With England being in the Northern Emisphere and people actually loving Origin, there is never gonna be a mid-season window imho.