Sat 28th Sept: SL Eliminator: Warrington Wolves v St Helens KO 17:30 (BBC/Sky)

[bobbruce]

Well done Wire just too clinical with the few chances they had. From a Saints point of view they will be kicking themselves over the errors not only for the try’s but in golden point as well. Much better performance than I expected I have to make a special mention for Lees who gets a lot of stick on here but was absolutely immense. Saints need to bring him some support in because this year he’s carried Walmsley and Passi. 

[Just Browny]

7 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Well done Wire just too clinical with the few chances they had. From a Saints point of view they will be kicking themselves over the errors not only for the try’s but in golden point as well. Much better performance than I expected I have to make a special mention for Lees who gets a lot of stick on here but was absolutely immense. Saints need to bring him some support in because this year he’s carried Walmsley and Passi. 

Yes, Lees and Knowles cut the usual... skullduggery out of their game and concentrated on running and tackling hard, and looked far better for it. Walmsley could hardly move in the early stages, never mind at the end.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Just Browny said:

@Harry Stottle says George Williams doesn't do much in a game. Thought his contribution was handy tonight.

One question Browny, was yesterday's performance by Williams the norm, does he play like that every week putting in so much effort, emphatically no he doesn't, and if you or any of the Wire fans 'liking' your post say he does you are either delusional or telling lies.

He proved yesterday that he has 'a turbo button' that he can engage when he deems nessacary, in 2017 I said on these pages that he had no peers in the English game he was 22 years old and full on in nearly every game, he was the same at Canberra he performed as though he had a point to prove being an English half. Playing like he did yesterday was a joy to watch, he now has definitely one more game to play as he did yesterday if he does the same and puts so much effort in again that will go a long way to Wire having another game to play, then he will have to perform it all over again if it is 'going to be your year', I expect we will be watching him very closely, he set the benchmark yesterday now he has to repeat it.

Don't think he has got exclusivity in this club, we have Edwin Ipape he has not played as well and as influential as he has done these last two games and like William's he has to do it all over again next week to give us any hope of progressing in the comp.

[Dave T]

The metres made by the big men i think showed how brutal a game it was in the middle.

Musgrove 24m

Harrison 58m

Vaughan 49m

Philbin 81m

Yates 59m

Saints had Walmsley make 98m and Lees 82m, with the others similar to Wires.

The three quarters were absolutely crucial. I was thinking this the other day about how they rarely get in the running for MoS etc. but wingers make more meters than forwards and score the match winners too. 

[Dave T]

Last night was a particularly good game for Williams, but he is consistently Wire's best player and has been pretty much since he signed for us.

He is an outstanding player.

Edit to say anyone who questions his effort is just being silly. Effort can never be questioned of him, even when off form.

Edited September 29 by Dave T

[Harry Stottle]

50 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Well done Wire just too clinical with the few chances they had. From a Saints point of view they will be kicking themselves over the errors not only for the try’s but in golden point as well. Much better performance than I expected I have to make a special mention for Lees who gets a lot of stick on here but was absolutely immense. Saints need to bring him some support in because this year he’s carried Walmsley and Passi. 

Not very often though Bob has Lee's carried them two they have not played that many games between them this season but yes I thought Lees was good yesterday as he was at Leigh last week the definite pick of your forwards for me.  I think young Delaney will be a top forward the more he plays, and who was the big 'chunky' lad who came on at Leigh, he was a real handful to tackle and even being raw thought he could have been has effective as Walmsley played yesterday he just did not look ready for a game that was always going to be that intense and a mere shadow of how we know he can/could play. Also I think Daryl Clark had his best game in Saints shirt yesterday, even allowing for the pass that gifted Ashton his second try, would you put that pass down to Ckark or the recievers not moving?

Edited September 29 by Harry Stottle

[Dave T]

Just having a scan through the stats.

Only 5 breaks by Wire and 4 by Saints. I think we had more half chances - both Ashton and Dufty needed try savers on them. The tries also didn't really come from clean breaks. Defences were broadly pretty good.

9 errors apiece - was it right that Thewlis made 5 errors himself?

 

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The metres made by the big men i think showed how brutal a game it was in the middle.

Musgrove 24m

Harrison 58m

Vaughan 49m

Philbin 81m

Yates 59m

Saints had Walmsley make 98m and Lees 82m, with the others similar to Wires.

The three quarters were absolutely crucial. I was thinking this the other day about how they rarely get in the running for MoS etc. but wingers make more meters than forwards and score the match winners too. 

I think the work rate that forwards put into games completely surpasses that of the outside backs though and it is the work they do that enables the 'fancy dans' on the outsides do their stuff, granted the modern day wingers do for more and are involved much more in games than their predecessors ever were.

[Loiner]

13 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

At this point his toes are on the ground you can tell from how his ankle rolls from this point in the next few frames. I'm surprised better quality is not used for these but it still looked pretty obvious.

On that picture you can't even see Makinsons leg let alone his ankle. The one with his foot on the line is a Warrington player.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

On that picture you can't even see Makinsons leg let alone his ankle. The one with his foot on the line is a Warrington player.

I'm not saying it was in touch, but you're looking in the wrong place. Look under the Wire players thigh/knee, that's Makinson's green boot.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I think the work rate that forwards put into games completely surpasses that of the outside backs though and it is the work they do that enables the 'fancy dans' on the outsides do their stuff, granted the modern day wingers do for more and are involved much more in games than their predecessors ever were.

I think it's an interesting discussion (I almost started a thread on it this week when the Goldthorpe medal was announced which tends to favour playmakers).

The roles on the pitch are very different but for me I think we can make more of celebrating the profile of the likes of Matty Ashton who is an absolute superstar of a player.

[sentoffagain2]

  It's all about the better field position with the golden point and Warrington had it.Very little chance for Saints to snatch a win.He has had some stick this season but i thought Walmsley had a very good first 20 min and then again when he came on later.He has come a long way since propping with Keegan Hirst for Batley in the Championship.

[georgeb1]

As a neutral that was an absolute belter, great advert for our game , more please

[The Blues Ox]

12 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Thanks for that. I think that shows what one would have suspected, given the position of his legs.

Nicely done.

I was surprised they didnt look at the high angle more as they seemed to only take one look at that and you have to presume they are looking at slightly better pictures than we are but this showed clearly that both players were over the touchline as the ball was grounded so they just needed to decide if Makinson was touching the ground. Roll that still from the other angle back and forward two or three times and its clear his toes are planted at that point.

I guess we could say that Makinson has played a blinder by choosing to wear boots that are a shade of green. 

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

Well done Wire just too clinical with the few chances they had. From a Saints point of view they will be kicking themselves over the errors not only for the try’s but in golden point as well. Much better performance than I expected I have to make a special mention for Lees who gets a lot of stick on here but was absolutely immense. Saints need to bring him some support in because this year he’s carried Walmsley and Passi. 

Paasi is done (Stephens is already a better option). Walmsley is done as a prop to carry the team as well. I think Batchelor is a shadow of his former self too; and Lomax has gone. Massive rebuilding job at Saints despite how close we got last night. 

Lees was immense. Knowles superb too. I thought Clark (despite the horrific pass) and Percival (despite the last kick) were great too. 

[Tommygilf]

 

 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 

 

Seems pretty solid considering its up against the biggest show of the week (Strictly) plus a Liverpool Premirr Leafue game. Hopefully with the Sky figures we would be at around half a million viewers, which is where these deals.come into their own.

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Seems pretty solid considering its up against the biggest show of the week (Strictly) plus a Liverpool Premirr Leafue game. Hopefully with the Sky figures we would be at around half a million viewers, which is where these deals.come into their own.

Absolutely, the BBC can clearly work well for us, we just need to harness that.

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

The metres made by the big men i think showed how brutal a game it was in the middle.

Musgrove 24m

Harrison 58m

Vaughan 49m

Philbin 81m

Yates 59m

Saints had Walmsley make 98m and Lees 82m, with the others similar to Wires.

The three quarters were absolutely crucial. I was thinking this the other day about how they rarely get in the running for MoS etc. but wingers make more meters than forwards and score the match winners too. 

It’s not a fair comparison to compare wingers metres to props. 

[Dave T]

Just now, bobbruce said:

It’s not a fair comparison to compare wingers metres to props. 

Not directly, but a lot of wingers are making hard metres too on those early tackles. My point is more that Wingers are some of the most valuable players around, they face some of the most pressure both in defence and attack, score the tries, work hard etc. And they entertain. 

They don't have to make 40 tackles as well though, I will concede that!

[Dave T]

Just watching the end again, and what an absolute hash Wire make of their last set in the 80. Two of our most experienced players royally balls it up.

Drinkwater (who has been great this year) messes up the kick. We finished our last set just in Saints half and Drinkwater kicks on the halfway line - it's a useless kick that drifts 12m forward and Saints get it back. I dont know what he was thinking and not sure why it wasn't in the corner.

To make it worse, from the tackle then on the Saints 40, Sam Powell makes a weird ball steal when all we need to do is tackle, tackle, tackle.

From finishing our set in Saints half, Saints end up with the ball in our 40 zone.

Thankfully. In the GP, Saints' game management was even worse than that!

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

Paasi is done (Stephens is already a better option). Walmsley is done as a prop to carry the team as well. I think Batchelor is a shadow of his former self too; and Lomax has gone. Massive rebuilding job at Saints despite how close we got last night. 

Lees was immense. Knowles superb too. I thought Clark (despite the horrific pass) and Percival (despite the last kick) were great too. 

I agree the problem is didn’t Walmsley and Lomax get given two year deals and they will be on good money. So any rebuild will again get put off another year. Saints have been good at this in the past that’s why we haven’t had much of a drop off in SL but we seem to have hung on to a few players a couple of years too long Walmsley Lomax Paasi Batchelor Hurrell. Add to that a couple of dud signings Blake Mbye (I know some rate him I’m still not convinced by him).

[dkw]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Just watching the end again, and what an absolute hash Wire make of their last set in the 80. Two of our most experienced players royally balls it up.

Drinkwater (who has been great this year) messes up the kick. We finished our last set just in Saints half and Drinkwater kicks on the halfway line - it's a useless kick that drifts 12m forward and Saints get it back. I dont know what he was thinking and not sure why it wasn't in the corner.

To make it worse, from the tackle then on the Saints 40, Sam Powell makes a weird ball steal when all we need to do is tackle, tackle, tackle.

From finishing our set in Saints half, Saints end up with the ball in our 40 zone.

Thankfully. In the GP, Saints' game management was even worse than that!

I thought at the time that mess could come back to bite Wire, it was shambolic. It's been forgotten about due to saints even worse effort in GP as you say. 

[bobbruce]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Not directly, but a lot of wingers are making hard metres too on those early tackles. My point is more that Wingers are some of the most valuable players around, they face some of the most pressure both in defence and attack, score the tries, work hard etc. And they entertain. 

They don't have to make 40 tackles as well though, I will concede that!

I totally agree that wingers are no longer the old joke of people who like to hang out with rugby players. It’s a very specialised job now and absolutely some should be in the running for MOS. Unfortunately as a game we always go for half backs and fullbacks who tend to be involved in the big plays with the odd hooker thrown in. 

[Dave T]

I know I'm still buzzing and on a high, but there is so much amazing imagery from that match, particularly the climax.

We had the last minute try and touchline conversion with all the celebrations that came with that.

The Morgan Knowles charged own of the first dg attempt was heroic for a big forward in the 82nd minute. On another day that is a match winning play.

The images of the players celebrating when the kick goes over. The South Stand exploding. The Saints players lay down heartbroken. The fans singing and dancing.

The interviews just seconds after the match, the Saints players and manager acting with class congratulating Wire players.

Burgess embracing the kids on the pitch.

There was such an explosion of colour and noise - i don't think anyone could watch that and not get caught up in it.

Sport at its very best, and excellent coverage from Sky, who we all like to bag at times.

Edited September 29 by Dave T