Andrew Abdo on the NRL’s relationship with SL

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think they have more to gain it’s true if they can build it up and market it properly, they could further exploit the UK/Europe market.

And the benefits for us would not happen automatically, they would require a well executed strategy by the UK/Europe side.

If you’re also a bit cynical that would be accomplished then I would understand the reasons why.

There’s nothing wrong with your position per se on reflection or seeing the problems.

Despite my post I don’t consider you a negative guy so sorry if it came across as that.

 

It's all good, it is an interesting discussion.

I want to see Rugby League succeed in all forms and in all territories.

And as I am sure many people have noticed, I am an NRL fanatic, I very rarely miss a game.

But in this instance, I can only see benefit to the NRL and not the UK game and as such I don't see the point. There are plenty of territories for the NRL to expand into without coming to the UK.

[Eddie]

30 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Is that the target demographic for growth of Rugby League in the UK, the Australian and Kiwis in London?

I’m fairly sure the RFL don’t have a target demographic or any plan for growth of rugby league, but Aussies and kiwis in London would be a good target audience if there was one. 

[Hopie]

If NRL clubs came over here to play each other before the Green and Gold come back to play an Ashes series that really would be extracting the urine.

[Dave T]

I tend to agree with Dunbar here. 

I don't think the NRL should be staging club RL in a country that has access to club RL.

This is just furthering the NRL clubs when we should be focusing on internationals.

If they want to fly NRL teams over, have them playing against UK teams.

[crashmon]

If the NRL did play a game over here it would be in London.

They are in the business to make money. That means getting in investment.  MLB, MBA, NFL when they come over play all the games in London stadiums.

They would be looking to grow the NRL brand, make the NRL like the NFL. 

The thing everybody up in the M62 really does not realise is that nobody even knows RL exists down here.  Most of the people who would go to a NRL game in london (if its marketed correctly, which the NRL know how to do) would not even know that we had a superleague or that it was a professional sport in the M62.

NRL know where the money is at. They are not about trying to fill in an small already oversaturated market.  They will be all about spectacle, and for that its London

Edited October 6 by crashmon

[Tommygilf]

I think the popularity of the NRL is overstated. This is a very good and well respected Rugby competition, but it's not the NFL.

I saw with the comparison between the Kiwis and Kangaroos in 2015 vs 2016 that "NZ Rugby" is a far stronger brand than the Kangaroos here, despite the latter having far more "NRL Stars" in their ranks - this was the Thurston, Smith, English and Cronk era Aussies too.

That's before we get to the Kiwis and aussies over here more likely being the RU or Posh AFL types than our good old boys from Redfern etc...

[crashmon]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I tend to agree with Dunbar here. 

I don't think the NRL should be staging club RL in a country that has access to club RL.

This is just furthering the NRL clubs when we should be focusing on internationals.

If they want to fly NRL teams over, have them playing against UK teams.

Why on earth would the NRL want to assiociate themselves to a small regional league, if they want to make money and promote there brand.

look how amturish the SuperLeague is.  Why on earth would you want to assiocate yourselves to that. You want to try and make this out as something new and mysterious to the Southern population, like the Aussie verison of NFL for instance.  Market this as a hybred between Union and NFL.

I would not even mention the word Rugby League here.  I'd just use NRL as the buzzword.  The less you link yourselves to English Rugby League and the word Rugby League in General, the more likely you are of making this a success in London

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Why on earth would the NRL want to assiociate themselves to a small regional league, if they want to make money and promote there brand.

look how amturish the SuperLeague is.  Why on earth would you want to assiocate yourselves to that. You want to try and make this out as something new and mysterious to the Southern population, like the Aussie verison of NFL for instance.  Market this as a hybred between Union and NFL.

I would not even mention the word Rugby League here.  I'd just use NRL as the buzzword.  The less you link yourselves to English Rugby League and the word Rugby League in General, the more likely you are of making this a success in London

Or if your opinion of English RL is so low, just go and play it somewhere else.

[JohnM]

30 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’m fairly sure the RFL don’t have a target demographic or any plan for growth of rugby league, but Aussies and kiwis in London would be a good target audience if there was one. 

That was the hope/ambition/desire years ago when the London Broncos were at the stoop but it didn't materialise. I don't see what has changed since then to indicate that target to g them would be any more successful now.

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, JohnM said:

That was the hope/ambition/desire years ago when the London Broncos were at the stoop but it didn't materialise. I don't see what has changed since then to indicate that target to g them would be any more successful now.

Maybe actually target them this time, you know do some marketing other than just putting a game on and expecting people to come. 

[crashmon]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Or if your opinion of English RL is so low, just go and play it somewhere else.

Its not about RL so much, but about the SuperLeague as an organisation, and how the game of RL is run in this country.

Tell me again how many NFL, MLB, NBA games are played outside of london since the concepts of the on the road games started with the NFL back in the mid 2000's.

After all you have Anfield, Goodison, Old Trafford, Elland Road, Eithad Stadium, St James Park, all suitable venues in the North of England, all with enough capacity to stage one of these events.

In Germany, the NFL spreads the games around.  Not in England.

The reason is that if you want these games to make money, if you want the sponsership money, advertising money, you want the reach, you need to be staging these games in London.

But the superleague does not want to embrace London.  They only care about a small regional part of the UK.  

If your the NRL, and you want to make money from the venture, your going to be looking at NFL, NBA etc.  You not going to be looking at SuperLeague

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Its not about RL so much, but about the SuperLeague as an organisation, and how the game of RL is run in this country.

Tell me again how many NFL, MLB, NBA games are played outside of london since the concepts of the on the road games started with the NFL back in the mid 2000's.

After all you have Anfield, Goodison, Old Trafford, Elland Road, Eithad Stadium, St James Park, all suitable venues in the North of England, all with enough capacity to stage one of these events.

In Germany, the NFL spreads the games around.  Not in England.

The reason is that if you want these games to make money, if you want the sponsership money, advertising money, you want the reach, you need to be staging these games in London.

But the superleague does not want to embrace London.  They only care about a small regional part of the UK.  

If your the NRL, and you want to make money from the venture, your going to be looking at NFL, NBA etc.  You not going to be looking at SuperLeague

It ultimately depends what the objective is. If it's commercial partners, we'll, they'll probably be surprised by how insignificant a game in London would be (remember we have seen the Kangaroos and Kiwis in London a fair bit, with some mixed results). 

If they want a crowd in a ground you can make a case for going to where existing RL fans are, or where Aussie expats and travellers are in London, or target sport event crowds in London. Again, the benchmark is Kangaroos v Kiwis in London with c13k in.

If you're looking at pushing your watch NRL product and subscriptions, then you'd probably go for the warmer segments rather than investing millions to try and create a brand new one.

As much as people like to hate on the North of England, strong RL events there can attract good crowds.

[Archie Gordon]

14 minutes ago, crashmon said:

...
But the superleague does not want to embrace London.  They only care about a small regional part of the UK.  

If your the NRL, and you want to make money from the venture, your going to be looking at NFL, NBA etc.  You not going to be looking at SuperLeague

Precisely.

The idea that the NRL would be stepping on SL toes is odd. SL has no interest at all in London. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Dave T said:

It ultimately depends what the objective is. If it's commercial partners, we'll, they'll probably be surprised by how insignificant a game in London would be (remember we have seen the Kangaroos and Kiwis in London a fair bit, with some mixed results). 

If they want a crowd in a ground you can make a case for going to where existing RL fans are, or where Aussie expats and travellers are in London, or target sport event crowds in London. Again, the benchmark is Kangaroos v Kiwis in London with c13k in.

If you're looking at pushing your watch NRL product and subscriptions, then you'd probably go for the warmer segments rather than investing millions to try and create a brand new one.

As much as people like to hate on the North of England, strong RL events there can attract good crowds.

I'll go out on a limb and say there is no market big enough anywhere in the UK for the NRL to stage a regular season fixture and make a profit by doing so.

I'll also note that the "everyone knows the NRL is talking about buying Super League" and/or "the NRL is going to create its own competition tomorrow" never seem to have their rumours backed up by anything the NRL ever says or does. The NRL is clearly interested in buying more property than in buying another league.

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

It ultimately depends what the objective is. If it's commercial partners, we'll, they'll probably be surprised by how insignificant a game in London would be (remember we have seen the Kangaroos and Kiwis in London a fair bit, with some mixed results). 

If they want a crowd in a ground you can make a case for going to where existing RL fans are, or where Aussie expats and travellers are in London, or target sport event crowds in London. Again, the benchmark is Kangaroos v Kiwis in London with c13k in.

If you're looking at pushing your watch NRL product and subscriptions, then you'd probably go for the warmer segments rather than investing millions to try and create a brand new one.

As much as people like to hate on the North of England, strong RL events there can attract. good crowds.

I think Broncos-Roosters is an obviously more attractive game than Australia-NZ.

And if the North of England could attract a crowd for top-level RL, the West Stand at Wigan would be open for England-Samoa. 

[crashmon]

Personally I think the NRL is flogging a dead horse in the UK, and there a better markets for them to try and expand RL than here.

But if they do try to do it, London is the place they would target.

And I come from North England.  I don't hate on it at all, I've spent 25 years living down here trying to entice people to go first to London Broncos games, and then after the whole Quins fiasco, England games. Now we have no England games.
 

But there are much better markets the NRL could try and expand into, then the UK

[Dave T]

Just now, gingerjon said:

I'll go out on a limb and say there is no market big enough anywhere in the UK for the NRL to stage a regular season fixture and make a profit by doing so.

I'll also note that the "everyone knows the NRL is talking about buying Super League" and/or "the NRL is going to create its own competition tomorrow" never seem to have their rumours backed up by anything the NRL ever says or does. The NRL is clearly interested in buying more property than in buying another league.

Yup. I agree.

2 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think Broncos-Roosters is an obviously more attractive game than Australia-NZ.

And if the North of England could attract a crowd for top-level RL, the West Stand at Wigan would be open for England-Samoa. 

Why is Broncos v Roosters more attractive? 

Certainly not obviously so. Far fewer people in the UK will have even heard of those teams than will have an awareness that Australia and NZ have an RL team.

[crashmon]

Also NBA tried and failed.  They play the OTR games now in Paris.

And the jury is out on the MLB games TBH.

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, Dave T said:

Yup. I agree.

Why is Broncos v Roosters more attractive? 

Certainly not obviously so. Far fewer people in the UK will have even heard of those teams than will have an awareness that Australia and NZ have an RL team.

An NRL game allows UK fans to pick a team in a way that Aus-NZ doesn't. There's also the point that Brisbane-Roosters is also a bigger game than Aus-NZ in Australia! For whatever reasons, Aus-NZ meets a lukewarm response everywhere outside a RLWC final.

Plus Reece Walsh and Dom Young would get a game in the former but not the latter.

[gingerjon]

22 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Also NBA tried and failed.  They play the OTR games now in Paris.

And the jury is out on the MLB games TBH.

There is an MLB series penned in for 2026. Not sure whether they will renew after that. I think they are happy with it but it probably makes more sense for them to play in Mexico, Korea and Japan ahead of the UK.

[M j M]

If they're going to play a game over here it should be a State of Origin game or nothing. I think that would be a massive event if they played it at Wembley on a weekend.

[crashmon]

If they are going to play over here, needs to be a club game.

SOO is meaningless to people in the UK. You would struggle to sell the concept.
But a club game can make sense, as they people can tie themselves to a club

 

[N2022]

16 minutes ago, crashmon said:

If they are going to play over here, needs to be a club game.

SOO is meaningless to people in the UK. You would struggle to sell the concept.
But a club game can make sense, as they people can tie themselves to a club

 

I think you are right with this. My brother and I went to NFL in London and yes, you pick a team. Though a similar principle applies to SOO in theory, it would feel odd choosing to be a state that you have no connection with, in the same way I wouldn't tush to watch two other countries, even of the standard of NZ and Aus, outside of an RLWC we were hosting.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Maybe actually target them this time, you know do some marketing other than just putting a game on and expecting people to come. 

Can always try again but ...Iirc, they were targeted...but that was 25 or 30 years ago .

 

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Can always try again but ...Iirc, they were targeted...but that was 25 or 30 years ago .

 

Its worth a go, just because something was done poorly 30 odd years ago doesn’t mean it won’t work now.