Championship 2025 Onwards

[Click]

6 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

Bright and warm? You a Catalans supporter Some of us genuinely miss those winter days.....and there was nowhere colder than Sheddings I can assure you.  

 

 

Yeah you're right, sounds very appealing..

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

It does all rather sound that - if there is any exchange between the Champo and SL - the Champo will be where former SL clubs go to die. 

If being overtaken by a Champo club is made very hard to achieve, then any SL club that befalls this fate won't be able to bounce back any time soon. The second tier will likely become moribund. 

Could make the argument it's been that way for the last 20 years. Championship clubs getting a permanent place in SL have tended to do so as a result of an existing SL club imploding.

It's not really a closed shop when we have eg Salford needing regular council bailouts or clubs depending on the whims of their 80-something benefactor. It's pretty much a certainty that someone will crash out at some point in the next decade.

Edited October 21, 2024 by JonM

[yipyee]

On 19/10/2024 at 12:31, Derwent said:

No matter what system we have in place the clubs always divide into 3 categories.

1. Those who are safe in SL and will remain so. Probably about 10 clubs altogether.

2. Those who are either grimly holding on to SL status or those with realistic achievable ambitions to be in SL. Probably about 6 clubs.

3. The rest, who just try to stay in business and hope for the best.

For as long as we have had SL the game has been tying itself in knots trying to solve the problem of those 6(ish) clubs in the middle. Every restructure, every change of process, every supposed innovation has been to try and solve the conundrum of how to appease and accommodate that small group of middle clubs. We are no nearer to solving it now than we were 30 years ago.

Yes we keep trying to come up with a different solution than the one posed 30 years ago...

MERGERS 

 

[Archie Gordon]

13 minutes ago, JonM said:

Could make the argument it's been that way for the last 20 years. Championship clubs getting a permanent place in SL have tended to do so as a result of an existing SL club imploding.

It's not really a closed shop when we have eg Salford needing regular council bailouts or clubs depending on the whims of their 80-something benefactor. It's pretty much a certainty that someone will crash out at some point in the next decade.

I don't think so. I'm not sure we've had many implosions where a promoted club has directly benefitted. And I'm pretty certain that being able to bounce back via promotion is one of the reasons that Leigh and Hull KR have returned as stronger iterations. Likewise Cas from a bit longer ago.

I also think that your second point is a good reason for *not* sending demoted clubs off to die in the Championship. SL clubs can go bust out of nowhere. We need a strong Championship to allow big clubs to 're-set' occasionally and come back. Demotion needs to be accompanied with an incentivised route to return - this system looks as if demotion is a longer-term punishment; you're going down, here's a good kicking too. As I say, I'm not sure Hughes will be the only one to take this view.

[The Phantom Horseman]

36 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Don't understand your point .

I can't make it much simpler.

[Expatknight]

35 minutes ago, Click said:

Won't they? Standing outside in freezing weather on a cold, dark afternoon is quite different to going to watch the rugby while it is bright and warm outside. 

Especially with the standard of our grounds in RL.

I thought we had seen the back of standing in the freezing cold when they announced Summer Rugby all those years ago, but it's still cold and wet in March / April but you have the summer to look forward to. I can remember trecking all over in the fog, games called off at the last minute because you couldn't see the ball let alone the pitch, frozen grounds covered in straw in the vain hope they would be playable, players wallowing in mud where neither side could be distinguished because they were so blathered in the stuff, no thanks, been there, done that and I for one wouldn't do it again. you get a far better game on pitches that aren't mud baths, the game is faster and more of a spectacle even in the lower divisions.

 

[Taffy Tiger]

6 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

I can't make it much simpler.

Did you mean there's as much chance of a championship club getting a Grade A as there is of an amateur club winning CC ?

Edited October 21, 2024 by Taffy Tiger

[Taffy Tiger]

Just now, Taffy Tiger said:

Did you mean there's as much chance of a championship club getting a Grade A as there is of an amateer club winning CC ?

[Taffy Tiger]

9 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

10 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Did you mean there's as much chance of a championship club getting a Grade A as there is of an amateer club winning CC ?

If so , I will be more than willing to have a gentlemen's wager with you 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Taffy Tiger

[The Phantom Horseman]

6 minutes ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Did you mean there's as much chance of a championship club getting a Grade A as there is of an amateur club winning CC ?

Sigh. No, of course I didn't. I was using it as an even more extreme example of your own question "What is stopping other clubs attaining a Category A in the Championship?"

This is a bit like having to explain the joke when Mrs Merton asked Debbie McGee what first asked attracted her to the millionaire Paul Daniels.

[Taffy Tiger]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Sigh. No, of course I didn't. I was using it as an even more extreme example of your own question "What is stopping other clubs attaining a Category A in the Championship?"

This is a bit like having to explain the joke when Mrs Merton asked Debbie McGee what first asked attracted her to the millionaire Paul Daniels.

Ah I see , my apolgies for being so thick , and for the record what did first attract Debbie McGee to the Millionaire Paul Daniels , was it his personality ? 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Taffy Tiger

[DEANO]

4 hours ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Aren't Wakey expected to be Category A this year (from Championship) . What is stopping other clubs attaining a Category A in the Championship.

You mention how the weighting is so biased towards SL clubs and yet , by all accounts , Wakey will score higher than some SL clubs this season, if reports are to be believed . You could argue it will be harder for Wakey next season as they lose a guaranteed 0.35 points from this season's success .

I would agree that on the whole it will be easier to remain in SL than to get into it , but there are an extra 0.35 points available (more than 3 SL places) in the Championship each season . It is also much easier to get maximum points in the Turnover/CF ratio.

As for attendances there are currently 4 SL teams whose attendance score will be the same as Championship clubs at the top end of the scale this season (although this won't be the case with Leigh next season) . Wakey will be in SL next season , but won't be able to increase their attendances enough to move to the top score in this category for at least another couple of years , most likely 3 at best . You could argue that there is a clear bias towards Championship clubs in this area with the current attendance criteria , as their is a large gap of 4.5k (3k -7.5k) between the top 2 scoring bands , something that the likes of Huddersfield and Salford (and Wakey in the immediate future) won't get anywhere near . The real bias towards SL clubs would come if IMG grading criteria put another band in there around the 5k mark , but no suggestion this will happen .

The final point that you seem to be forgetting , especially regarding a closed shop , is that SL isn't fixed at 12 teams . It isn't necessary for a team to lose enough points to be releagted , for another team to be promoted under this new system. Any team getting 15 points or more is guaranteed a place in the following season's SL . IMG themselves have said that they are hoping for a 14+ SL team with all Category A teams in the future . 

 

If Wakey can achieve this then why can't other Championship clubs in the future ?

 

Had wakey been in the championship for 2 seasons prior to this one what would their score be

[Taffy Tiger]

2 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Had wakey been in the championship for 2 seasons prior to this one what would their score be

It would depend where they had finished in Championship in those 2 years . It wouldn't have been as much as this year's (2024) score though I wouldn't have thought , but if this year had been exactly the same ie London coming up in 2023 , then I think they would have still had a chance of top 12 , albeit probably from a high Grade B

[DEANO]

And the year before had they been mid table championship 

[dboy]

4 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

"CHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS! Worried that you can't get anywhere near a Grade A in those pesky IMG scores? Simply find a  multi-millionaire amongst your fans, and get him to fund a squad that costs three times as much as everyone else's, invest in infrastructure and reduce Adult season tickets to the cheapest in rugby league, and you too can easily attain a grade A!"

Simply utter rubbish.

I paid £312 for my East Stand ST.

West stand was cheapest at £100.

If you want to quote the cheapest tickets in the game, see Huddersfield Giants.

Though TBF, the rest of your post could describe Giants too.

[The Phantom Horseman]

4 minutes ago, dboy said:

Simply utter rubbish.

 

Don't take my word for it, my source was, er, the Wakefield Trinity website...
https://season-tickets.wakefieldtrinity.com/

"Cheapest Adult season tickets in rugby league". It's there in black and white (well, blue and white). You'd better have a word with your club if it's "simply utter rubbish."

[Gav Wilson]

26 minutes ago, DEANO said:

And the year before had they been mid table championship 

If my Auntie had wheels... 

[dboy]

25 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Don't take my word for it, my source was, er, the Wakefield Trinity website...
https://season-tickets.wakefieldtrinity.com/

"Cheapest Adult season tickets in rugby league". It's there in black and white (well, blue and white). You'd better have a word with your club if it's "simply utter rubbish."

It is rubbish and the club should be better on that fine detail - though it's clearly an interest grabber to get ST sales going.

At £100, our cheapest adult ticket, in our worst standing area of the ground, was £5 cheaper than the standard Hudds Giants adult ST. And that's for the Championship season.

Tickets in the North stand were circa £150, going up to £250+ in the East stand.

It will be interesting to see what Wakey charge this year, but we already know what the Giants are = £99 for people aged under 30!

 

 

Edited October 21, 2024 by dboy

[Worzel]

Countdown to the IMG thread gobbling this one up in three... two... one...

[DEANO]

25 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

If my Auntie had wheels... 

not really mate. If a lower placed club found a backer and improved to the play offs the following season then won it the year after they would be going nowhere. Why would yo invest

[phiggins]

29 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

If my Auntie had wheels... 

she’d still be your auntie?

[Gav Wilson]

2 minutes ago, DEANO said:

not really mate. If a lower placed club found a backer and improved to the play offs the following season then won it the year after they would be going nowhere. Why would yo invest

Because an investor can invest in a whole club and improve it across the board, rather than just fuelling their ego by signing a few fringe NRL lads. 

[Worzel]

On 20/10/2024 at 16:35, Agbrigg said:

Firstly I think Huddersfield are in more jeopardy than Cas, other than perpetual massive financial inputs from Ken Davey they have championship written all over them.

Secondly I believe the IMG system needs amending. My suggestion would be that if a B grade finishes bottom of SL and a B grade wins the championship, promotion and relegation between them should happen. The fact that the SL club may be 14 pts and the championship club 13 pts should not be a consideration. The difference would be small enough between them to justify P and R

Spot on. I think Cas have probably 3x, if not 4x, the audience of Huddersfield. The latter is a Championship club in an inappropriate stadium, kept alive by a well-meaning multi-millionaire. 

[Worzel]

7 hours ago, Click said:

There are "greedy" chairman at SL, Championship & L1 level. 
You make it sound like SL clubs and chairpeople are awful, but the Championship and L1 equivalents are holier-than-thou 

The most recent court appearances of Featherstone's main backer have surely put paid to that theory 

Next week, Gary Hetherington's burglary trial followed by Neil Hudgell up before the beak for a road rage incident just off the dual carriageway by North Ferriby  

[DEANO]

14 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Because an investor can invest in a whole club and improve it across the board, rather than just fuelling their ego by signing a few fringe NRL lads. 

I’m talking about a championship club