Salary Cap Shenanigans

[Martyn Sadler]

3 hours ago, M j M said:

Probably Wigan, Saints and Warrington agreeing to make these changes without consulting Leeds and Hetherington giving Matt Shaw a call to complain.

You've got two out of three.

[Harry Stottle]

8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

So, an average spend of £2.4 million with a the base salary cap will remain at £2.1 million.  So, plenty of use of the exemptions already in place.

For reference, the fixed cap was introduced in 2002 at £1.8 million (before that is was a % of turnover).

£1.8 million in 2002 equates to £3.24 million in 2024 according to the Bank of England inflation calculator.

And, after you have totalled them all up and divided by 12, it makes no difference at all to what I said, that the dispensations will be good for those who can best afford them, guess who those will be who will spend the most and least, it's not hard.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And, after you have totalled them all up and divided by 12, it makes no difference at all to what I said, that the dispensations will be good for those who can best afford them, guess who those will be who will spend the most and least, it's not hard.

I was using your post as a point of reference, not trying to counter it. Not everything has to be an argument. 

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I was using your post as a point of reference, not trying to counter it. Not everything has to be an argument. 

Fair enough.

[Wakefield Ram]

14 hours ago, JohnM said:

You don't have to be wealthy to create a successful club.  Love him or dislike him (moi?) Beaumont has made Leigh successful compared with the clubs lower in the league. Yes, he may be well off but he's not in your Dave Whelan league, I believe. Ditto the guy at Wakefield. What Beaumont has done is drive forward, combining the roles of owner, MD, CEO, CFO, COO and more maybe. If he can do it, so can others, so should others, so must others. The bad ones should not be able to hold the good ones back.

To get to that position Beaumont (and full credit to him) put in millions. Without those millions Leigh wouldn't be in SL. 

My point regarding the salary cap is from the Sky figures there is no real salary cap. There's so many exemptions clubs can spend nearly double the cap if they have wealthy owners. 

More players would go to the NRL? The NRL can pay more anyway so it's not money keeping players here. 

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

To get to that position Beaumont (and full credit to him) put in millions. Without those millions Leigh wouldn't be in SL. 

My point regarding the salary cap is from the Sky figures there is no real salary cap. There's so many exemptions clubs can spend nearly double the cap if they have wealthy owners. 

More players would go to the NRL? The NRL can pay more anyway so it's not money keeping players here. 

Money does keep players here. Sure we can't match the NRL top figures but we still need to pay enough to persuade players to stay and not make the NRL as worthwhile. If someone can get £350k in the NRL then £225k may be enough to keep them in SL and not uproot to the other side of the world. £80k probably wouldnt be.

[JohnM]

So how much has Beaumont actually put in? Money he has put in and does not expect to see again.

My point being that he is not necessarily exceptionally wealthy but that he has also embarked on a personal crusade to make the club sucessful and without that ,money alone is will not ensure success. He's therefore done something that any other similarly fixed club could have done but hasn't. 

Edited October 22, 2024 by JohnM

[Wakefield Ram]

54 minutes ago, JohnM said:

So how much has Beaumont actually put in? Money he has put in and does not expect to see again.

My point being that he is not necessarily exceptionally wealthy but that he has also embarked on a personal crusade to make the club sucessful and without that ,money alone is will not ensure success. He's therefore done something that any other similarly fixed club could have done but hasn't. 

At one stage in the Championship he was putting in £50,000 a month. He ran a full-time SL-standard squad for 2022 season in the Championship. He's easily put in £millions, so if every Championship club had a wealthy benefactor willing to put in millions over a prolonged period, the I'd agree. Yes he's appointed CEO etc

But it just isn't the case and hardly the fault of a club that it hasn't got  multi-millionaire benefactors.

[Harry Stottle]

43 minutes ago, JohnM said:

So how much has Beaumont actually put in? Money he has put in and does not expect to see again.

My point being that he is not necessarily exceptionally wealthy but that he has also embarked on a personal crusade to make the club sucessful and without that ,money alone is will not ensure success. He's therefore done something that any other similarly fixed club could have done but hasn't. 

It's called 'bottle' having an idea and commiting to it, irrespective of the consequence.

Twice Mr Beaumont tried and failed in SL '17 and '21, then in '22 rehashed his strategy with a 5 year rolling plan, firstly to gather together a squad more than capable of winning the Championship, if it failed he was prepared go again the next season, and with a few additions sourced through and signed towards the end of the '22 season would be capable of competing in SL 23.

There may be other owners who are around the same wealth who could easily replicate what he has done, but they may not have the 'bottle' to do it, Matt Ellis at Wakefield has borrowed the 'blueprint' and up to now it seems to be paying dividends.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

At one stage in the Championship he was putting in £50,000 a month. He ran a full-time SL-standard squad for 2022 season in the Championship. He's easily put in £millions, so if every Championship club had a wealthy benefactor willing to put in millions over a prolonged period, the I'd agree. Yes he's appointed CEO etc

But it just isn't the case and hardly the fault of a club that it hasn't got  multi-millionaire benefactors.

There is also backing yourself and 'speculating to accumulate' in '22 Leigh were averaging sub 3,000 crowds with a few hundred ST holders, now there are average crowds of circa 8,500 and nearly 6,000 ST holders in 6 different categories, the club also took the decision to charge £30 admission the most costly in SL and that seemingly has had no detriment.

[Wakefield Ram]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

There is also backing yourself and 'speculating to accumulate' in '22 Leigh were averaging sub 3,000 crowds with a few hundred ST holders, now there are average crowds of circa 8,500 and nearly 6,000 ST holders in 6 different categories, the club also took the decision to charge £30 admission the most costly in SL and that seemingly has had no detriment.

Harry - unlike many I have no beef with Beaumont and Leigh. Unlike many benefactors he's put his money in over a prolonged period and he's turned the club around. 

But the argument that every Championship club could do the same isn't true. Not every Championship club has someone willing to put £millions into it. That the argument. 

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Harry - unlike many I have no beef with Beaumont and Leigh. Unlike many benefactors he's put his money in over a prolonged period and he's turned the club around. 

But the argument that every Championship club could do the same isn't true. Not every Championship club has someone willing to put £millions into it. That the argument. 

I had a few long discussions with fans of Fev in '23, I stated that they had spent quite a lot on their team squad, I said had if they add to that expenditure and get some more high profile signings they could virtually guarantee promotion and the reward would be SL funding and increased crowds the next season, fail and all they have spent will be flushed down the plughole, in hindsight they have not recovered from that, Fev fans told me they could not afford to speculate any more on their squad, I still believe to do so would have paid dividends, especially being in SL with IMG coming.

[Wakefield Ram]

22 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's called 'bottle' having an idea and commiting to it, irrespective of the consequence.

Twice Mr Beaumont tried and failed in SL '17 and '21, then in '22 rehashed his strategy with a 5 year rolling plan, firstly to gather together a squad more than capable of winning the Championship, if it failed he was prepared go again the next season, and with a few additions sourced through and signed towards the end of the '22 season would be capable of competing in SL 23.

There may be other owners who are around the same wealth who could easily replicate what he has done, but they may not have the 'bottle' to do it, Matt Ellis at Wakefield has borrowed the 'blueprint' and up to now it seems to be paying dividends.

Wakefield got a parachute payment and Ellis has put money in pretty much safe in the knowledge that Wakefield would be guaranteed promotion due to IMG. 

It's not about "bottle" , it's about money. If you do know any multi-millionaire benefactors who are willing to plough their wealth into a Championship clubs over many years, then just let the clubs know. 

I also remember 2017 when Beaumont stopped paying the players before the end of the season and they turned up to Dewsbury with 13 players.

[Click]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I had a few long discussions with fans of Fev in '23, I stated that they had spent quite a lot on their team squad, I said had if they add to that expenditure and get some more high profile signings they could virtually guarantee promotion and the reward would be SL funding and increased crowds the next season, fail and all they have spent will be flushed down the plughole, in hindsight they have not recovered from that, Fev fans told me they could not afford to speculate any more on their squad, I still believe to do so would have paid dividends, especially being in SL with IMG coming.

Or it could have completely bankrupted the club ..

[DavidM]

Shenanigans is a great word 

[Harry Stottle]

46 minutes ago, Click said:

 

Wrong reply

Edited October 22, 2024 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

47 minutes ago, Click said:

Or it could have completely bankrupted the club ..

That we will never know Click, They could also be in SL now. 

[Martyn Sadler]

19 hours ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure how you can say Bradfords demise wasn't down to mismanagement.

One day someone might write a book about Bradford's demise although they would have to be very careful to avoid being sued for libel.

If they did, you would find that mismanagement played only a small part in the club's downfall, at least initially, although its problems accumulated under later owners.

A battle for control and the club losing its overdraft facility with the RBS were the initial triggers.

You can see the complicated history from 2011 to 2017 here.

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

That we will never know Click, They could also be in SL now. 

Isn't that the point of a wealthy backer though.  A club extending itself to the limits of its finance (and here, actually beyond it) in order to secure promotion and the additional revenue stream that comes with it is a very risky strategy without someone willing to underwrite (or write off) such a cost if the strategy fails.

[Coggo]

Hull FC – £1.8million?!

In the words of a short-lived former PM: That. Is. A. Disgrace.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Coggo said:

Hull FC – £1.8million?!

In the words of a short-lived former PM: That. Is. A. Disgrace.

Yes, for a Grade A it is.

[paul hicks]

On 21/10/2024 at 14:32, Harry Stottle said:

Should imagine these figs will only increase next year, 

Sky Sports’ estimated Super League salary spend in 2024

1. Wigan Warriors – £3.1million
=2. Catalans Dragons – £3million
=2. Warrington Wolves – £3million
=4. Huddersfield Giants – £2.7million
=4. Leeds Rhinos – £2.7million
=4. St Helens – £2.7million
7. Hull KR – £2.4million
8. Leigh Leopards – £2.2million
9. Hull FC – £1.8million
=10. Salford Red Devils – £1.7million
=10. Castleford Tigers – £1.7million
12. London Broncos – £1.4million

For those who can afford the dispensations !

those figures especially at the bottom were rather influenced by the lower clubs redirecting money to other projects to raise there IMG scores i think. certainly Castleford admitted as much

[Chrispmartha]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes, for a Grade A it is.

Who’s said they’ve got a grade A?

[MrIzzard]

23 hours ago, Dave T said:

Shaw presented it positively, it's Sadler's suspicion that this was three or four clubs consulted.

Dangerous ground indeed suspicion, my guess is Mr Sadler is generating interest.

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Coggo said:

Hull FC – £1.8million?!

In the words of a short-lived former PM: That. Is. A. Disgrace.

 

49 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes, for a Grade A it is.

This is one club that is perfect for the investment strategy.  A guaranteed place in Super League, a large and passionate fan base and a great stadium.  Spend to the cap, or beyond, bring in star players that the fans want to see and build momentum.