RL Attitudes to other football codes

[SouthBedfordshireFan]

Based on my interactions/observations/knowledge the relationship between RL and the XV man game was tense to say the least with rugby union authorities undermining RL in various ways around the world. Not sure what the exact nature is now.

In some posts on this forum I have noticed AFL has been mockingly referred to as 'fumbleball'. 

In that regard what is the attitude of RL fans/authorities towards association football and the gridiron codes across the Atlantic?

Hope that made sense.

 

Thank you. 

 

[StandOffHalf]

AFL has been sanitised beyond belief. It's like watching a totally different sport nowadays, compared to the rough-and-tumble of decades past. I used to enjoy it to an extent 20 or so years ago.

Soccer I only really watch at the big tournaments now. I think it is all about possession now with teams playing the same style of tippy-tappy, conservative, percentage-based play to varying degrees of success. There seems to be much less space for taking players on and dribbling with the ball in today's game. 

American Football is impressive in its plays and detail. I find it pretty boring and stop-start though. I sometimes take a look at the Super Bowl.

Edited October 25 by StandOffHalf

[Exiled Wiganer]

Taking the handling codes.

Our game is far far better than union.
 

AFL is an obscure cultish pastime, irrelevant to anyone outside their tiny enclaves.

I really like American football - perhaps because it is played in the off season and has much in common with TGG. It’s clearly played by astonishing athletes. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

Here is my two-penneth on this.

AFL - Channel 4 used to show a one hour package of the VFL back in the 80’s.  Enjoyed watching it, especially the physical confrontations.  Thought I would get into the game when we migrated to Adelaide but to me it’s like watching a a flock of seagulls - the birds, not the band - fighting over a hot chip.  Some of the rules are quite simply the most stupid rules ever devised.

Football!!!! Not Soccer.  Followed Leeds Utd since 1970.  Watch all their games when on TV.  Although not watched a league game with two neutral teams for over 20 years.  The EPL is just a glorified 5-a-side game with no contact allowed. Would love to have seen what Norman Hunter and Big Jack would have done if a latter day Prima Donna started showboating in front of them!

RU - Used to watch the 5 Nations in my youth but stopped doing that when I became aware of the bigotry towards RL.  Not watched an RU match since the early 80’s.

American Football - Remember the anticipation what Channel 4 showed their first Super Bowl.  In from Pub … Game kicked off …. Ball was caught …. Both teams walked off the pitch to be replaced by other teams ….. I went to bed.  Not watched any game since.

 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

I am a season ticket holder at a division 9 football team which should give you an idea of my attitude towards football. I love football and watch pretty much every free to air game that is on (because I don't have sky) and even do voluntary work in the local community for the 9th division team in question.

[JohnM]

Easy-peasy. According to quite a few on here,all sports, especially soccer.  are rubbish, played by over-paid, under-performing and cheating softy no marks. Whilst in my view most fans take our sport on its own merits, some fans of rugby league seem to demonstrate some sort of inverted snobbery.

The word "soccer" is derived from the term "association football"12. The term "soccer" was first used in England as university slang. It was originally spelled "socca" and later "socker" before becoming "soccer". The -er suffix was popular slang at the Rugby School and Oxford University and used for all sorts of nouns the young men shortened. The term "soccer" was used to distinguish association football from other forms of football, such as rugby football or American football.

Edited October 25 by JohnM

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Easy-peasy. According to quite a few on here,all sports, especially soccer.  are rubbish, played by over-paid, under-performing and cheating softy no marks. Whilst in my view most fans take our sport on its own merits, some fans of rugby league seem to demonstrate some sort of inverted snobbery.

The word "soccer" is derived from the term "association football"12. The term "soccer" was first used in England as university slang. It was originally spelled "socca" and later "socker" before becoming "soccer". The -er suffix was popular slang at the Rugby School and Oxford University and used for all sorts of nouns the young men shortened. The term "soccer" was used to distinguish association football from other forms of football, such as rugby football or American football.

Roy Race called it soccer and he's more man than any of us will ever be - so I'm happy calling it soccer.

[gingerjon]

Back in the day when this forum was a lot busier, there was an anonymous poll for what was people's second favourite sport - on the assumption that RL was everyone's first.

Rugby Union was comfortably the winner.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Back in the day when this forum was a lot busier, there was an anonymous poll for what was people's second favourite sport - on the assumption that RL was everyone's first.

Rugby Union was comfortably the winner.

Is this forum a lot less busy than it used to be?

[Damien]

In my experience most RL fans follow Football to some extent and it is their 2nd sport, and 1st sometimes. Don't really know that many RL fans interested in RU. Also the odd smattering of interest in Cricket and even things like American Football.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Is this forum a lot less busy than it used to be?

Yup. It's kind of plateau'd over the last few years but compared to the time when it was all messageboards (so pre other social media really taking off) it's a lot lower volume.

Better for it, in many ways, but definitely lower.

[Tommygilf]

Warning: Rambling tired thoughts...

Some older folk in RL land will call Association football soccer or Wendyball. A legacy of an era where the handling code held dominance or at least parity with the Association game. 

Historically, our clubs sat in areas where Association football was not very strong initially. Our towns and cities at the time of codification preferred the rugby rules. West Yorkshire, much of what was then Lancashire and Hull were (and still are) strongholds of the sport. Our Town's clubs therefore played Rugby Football. Even now, whilst Association football has clearly boomed in popularity in the past century, the missionaries of the round ball code (they did call them that), from South Yorkshire and other parts of Lancashire that moved in to establish their code in rugby areas have had ostensibly mixed results.

Manningham (formerly of the Northern Union) switched to become what is now Bradford City. Leeds United, then as Leeds City before WW1, had been essentially a cuckoo of the then Holbeck Rugby club. Hull City, Huddersfield Town, Halifax, and maybe York City are the other clubs of any substantial size in the Yorkshire RL heartlands before you get to the likes of Guiseley or Farsley Celtic.

Wakefield is the largest city in England to have never had a football league team (iirc). It is not surprising however, that their "football club" has been a top flight rugby side however. A similar story can be seen with Bath or Gloucester in RU, Warrington in RL likewise. In fact the likes of Castleford, Fev, Dewsbury, Batley, Keighley, Leigh, St Helens, Widnes, etc are all sizeable towns where the "football club" plays rugby league rules rather than Association ones. In larger places like Leicester or Leeds, the "2nd club" is a rugby team, rather than a rival soccer team as is apparent elsewhere.

Back to West Yorkshire, take LUFC. Support is drawn from across (West) Yorkshire - unlike up until relatively recently where Leeds RL support was more focused exclusively within the city itself. The club has grown to supplant the desire for a top soccer team in say Wakefield or Cas. Ironically this will often see dyed in the wool Cas or Wakey fans singing Anti-Leeds chants at the rugby, to be followed by extolling their love for Leeds at the football the following day! In all seriousness though, I think the RL club allows those sorts of fans a more local sense of engagement. FWIW it's also worth considering that even across Leeds itself, there are areas with a stronger and weaker (non-existent) RL presence: Yorkshire played out in miniature perhaps.

Consider South Yorkshire soccer in comparison: Barnsley, Doncaster Rotherham, Sheffield United and Wednesday is closer to RL in density vs West Yorkshire. There's no real reason to that other than the preferences of 100 years ago.

The LUFC example is replicated on a smaller scale with Bradford City and Huddersfield Town across their proximities, along with the mega clubs of the Premier League era like the Manchester clubs, Liverpool and the big 3 London teams. 

I think any animosity there is between RL and football generally comes from insecurity on both sides. This is present more in Northern RL vs Football than RU vs Football given the class disparity at play in general terms (even then perhaps that is more pronounced in the North?). That point perhaps goes a long way to explain the lesser animosity towards NFL too.

Edited October 25 by Tommygilf

[M j M]

I don't think there's much animosity really between RL and soccer, except in certain obviously antagonistic situations like Wigan where the perceived hierarchy is inverted.

Obviously rugby union is widely disliked by many RL fans, I don't remember that poll of second favourite sports but it would surprise me if union was really top.

AFL and NRL have geographic and other cultural battles and the historic geographic crossover has been so minimal that it makes sense for fans of one or the other to deride each other. It's amped up now that both sports are aiming to make moves on to the others and the respective sports' leaders are taking shots at each other.

NFL is different - it's one of RL's closes cousins so it makes sense that lots of RL fans love it. On the other hand older entrenched British attitudes towards it still no doubt prevail with some people but they are probably dying off now as millions have grown up watching it.

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, M j M said:

Obviously rugby union is widely disliked by many RL fans, I don't remember that poll of second favourite sports but it would surprise me if union was really top.

 

I can't now find it but then I think the forum has reset itself several times since.

Thinking about it whilst I wait for the kettle to boil: it's likely that it's far enough back that the RL Conference was still widespread or, at least, had just been widespread. We had a lot of users connected with community clubs outside traditional RL areas. They would likely skew to RU as a second favourite sport.

[Barley Mow]

16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Warning: Rambling tired thoughts...

Some older folk in RL land will call Association football soccer or Wendyball. A legacy of an era where the handling code held dominance or at least parity with the Association game. 

Historically, our clubs sat in areas where Association football was not very strong initially. Our towns and cities at the time of codification preferred the rugby rules. West Yorkshire, much of what was then Lancashire and Hull were (and still are) strongholds of the sport. Our Town's clubs therefore played Rugby Football. Even now, whilst Association football has clearly boomed in popularity in the past century, the missionaries of the round ball code (they did call them that), from South Yorkshire and other parts of Lancashire that moved in to establish their code in rugby areas have had ostensibly mixed results.

Manningham (formerly of the Northern Union) switched to become what is now Bradford City. Leeds United, then as Leeds City before WW1, had been essentially a cuckoo of the then Holbeck Rugby club. Hull City, Huddersfield Town, Halifax, and maybe York City are the other clubs of any substantial size in the Yorkshire RL heartlands before you get to the likes of Guiseley or Farsley Celtic.

Wakefield is the largest city in England to have never had a football league team (iirc). It is not surprising however, that their "football club" has been a top flight rugby side however. A similar story can be seen with Bath or Gloucester in RU, Warrington in RL likewise. In fact the likes of Castleford, Fev, Dewsbury, Batley, Keighley, Leigh, St Helens, Widnes, etc are all sizeable towns where the "football club" plays rugby league rules rather than Association ones. In larger places like Leicester or Leeds, the "2nd club" is a rugby team, rather than a rival soccer team as is apparent elsewhere.

Back to West Yorkshire, take LUFC. Support is drawn from across (West) Yorkshire - unlike up until relatively recently where Leeds RL support was more focused exclusively within the city itself. The club has grown to supplant the desire for a top soccer team in say Wakefield or Cas. Ironically this will often see dyed in the wool Cas or Wakey fans singing Anti-Leeds chants at the rugby, to be followed by extolling their love for Leeds at the football the following day! In all seriousness though, I think the RL club allows those sorts of fans a more local sense of engagement. FWIW it's also worth considering that even across Leeds itself, there are areas with a stronger and weaker (non-existent) RL presence: Yorkshire played out in miniature perhaps.

Consider South Yorkshire soccer in comparison: Barnsley, Doncaster Rotherham, Sheffield United and Wednesday is closer to RL in density vs West Yorkshire. There's no real reason to that other than the preferences of 100 years ago.

The LUFC example is replicated on a smaller scale with Bradford City and Huddersfield Town across their proximities, along with the mega clubs of the Premier League era like the Manchester clubs, Liverpool and the big 3 London teams. 

I think any animosity there is between RL and football generally comes from insecurity on both sides. This is present more in Northern RL vs Football than RU vs Football given the class disparity at play in general terms (even then perhaps that is more pronounced in the North?). That point perhaps goes a long way to explain the lesser animosity towards NFL too.

Fantastic post. I think that sums it up almost perfectly.

On the use of the word soccer - I remember my grandad saying that in Leeds association football was always referred to as 'soccer' and RL as 'football' up until the point when United became successful in the mid-60s (and I suppose pulled clear of the three RL teams in terms of popularity).

From that point it was association football that was 'football' and RL 'rugby'.

[StandOffHalf]

I call RL ''football'' and association football ''soccer'' as a reflection of the football code I like more.

Hierarchical, if you will.

Edited October 25 by StandOffHalf

[Barley Mow]

2 hours ago, SouthBedfordshireFan said:

Based on my interactions/observations/knowledge the relationship between RL and the XV man game was tense to say the least with rugby union authorities undermining RL in various ways around the world. Not sure what the exact nature is now.

In some posts on this forum I have noticed AFL has been mockingly referred to as 'fumbleball'. 

In that regard what is the attitude of RL fans/authorities towards association football and the gridiron codes across the Atlantic?

Hope that made sense.

 

Thank you. 

 

For my part:

Favourite sport - cricket (I play for a local club and watch Yorkshire).

Favourite football code - rugby league.

Association football - I'm a Leeds United supporter and watch them live (when possible) and on tv - I'd probably choose watching them over a RL match. Very little interest in any other football although I might watch England if in the later knockout rounds of a major competition (probably not ahead of a RL game though).

Rugby union - No interest, verging on actively avoiding.

Other football codes (AFL, NFL, etc) - No interest.

Edited October 25 by Barley Mow

[M j M]

3 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I call RL ''football'' and association football ''soccer'' as a reflection of the football code I like more.

Hierarchical, if you will.

I use soccer partly because I've been brainwashed by consuming so much Australian sport content and American news. It also makes sense as it's got about as much right to call itself football as rugby union has to call itself rugby.

[48C North Stand]

Soccer - it was great in the 70s & 80s until it lost its working class roots in the UK and big money gambling took over. Then there's the corruption at the highest levels.... 

American football - just followed by kids who were no good at UK ball sports when I was a kid. Too commercial and way to cheesy US for me. 

Union - tried to watch it a few times but just can't get into it. Way too 'officer & professional class' for me - best left to them with high waisted jeans, brown brogues and Pink Floyd records... 

I only really follow atheletics other than RL. 

[Tommygilf]

21 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Fantastic post. I think that sums it up almost perfectly.

On the use of the word soccer - I remember my grandad saying that in Leeds association football was always referred to as 'soccer' and RL as 'football' up until the point when United became successful in the mid-60s (and I suppose pulled clear of the three RL teams in terms of popularity).

From that point it was association football that was 'football' and RL 'rugby'.

Thank you mate.

Likewise my Grandad called it Leeds RL regardless. Even for me now, it's going to watch "Leeds" (semi-regularly followed by "United") or "Rhinos" to refer to the two teams in my life. 

I loved the guide that was posted online around when I started Uni in 2016/17 for (mainly posh southern) students coming to Leeds. In there was a definitions: "Rugby" in Leeds means 13 men, Sir Kevin Sinfield and a rhino mascot nothing else (followed by some ribbing of union). 

I feel like that should be plastered on billboards across the north!

[Tommygilf]

Perhaps another aspect of RL and other sports, how many RL pitches at one point had a cricket ground added on?

Leeds is the obvious one still going at Headingley. I believe Keighley do too. Fartown had one as well iirc from photos. Anywhere else? 

Bramall Lane in Sheffield did at one point maybe? Or was that the same pitch doubling up?

[Barley Mow]

15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Perhaps another aspect of RL and other sports, how many RL pitches at one point had a cricket ground added on?

Leeds is the obvious one still going at Headingley. I believe Keighley do too. Fartown had one as well iirc from photos. Anywhere else? 

Bramall Lane in Sheffield did at one point maybe? Or was that the same pitch doubling up?

Headingley, Fartown, Thrum Hall, Keighley, Mount Pleasant, Parkside Ground off the top of my head.

Bramall Lane was a 3 sided football ground until the mid-70s with the pitch forming half of the cricket outfield (Sheffield United FC being established to keep Sheffield United CC players fit during the winter).

The Park Avenue ground in Bradford was like Headingley, Fartown, etc - Bradford FC being the original rugby club (founding member in 1895). They changed codes to association football in 1907 (Bradford Park Avenue). Meaning that a new rugby club had to be founded - called Bradford Northern RFC as they played Northern Union Rugby Football.

Elland Road was home to Holbeck CC from the time when Holbeck RL used the football ground, right up to the late 50s/early 60s - opposite side of Lowfields Rd.

Hull FC's ground is built on the site of a cricket ground (The Circle).

Edited October 25 by Barley Mow

[Gerrumonside ref]

If there’s a ball involved then I’m usually interested.

At different times I’ve followed St Helens home and away, followed Liverpool FC home and away and been a member of Lancashire CCC - been to plenty of other matches involving other teams as a neutral at every level in rugby league, football and cricket.

As for outside this country, I’ve been lucky enough to go to NFL games here and over there, also baseball games over there and an NBA basketball playoff game.

When it comes to rugby union, once been dragged to a Rotherham vs Bristol match and found it deathly dull plus difficult to follow the various game stopping infringements.

Probably watched more of it on TV during the ‘amateur’ era, now I settle for listening to the crowd sing the national anthems of Wales and Italy during the Six Nations before switching off pre-kick off usually, although maybe I’ll try the odd big game.

I like other non team sports too, but would put rugby union comfortably near the bottom of a very long list generally.

Edited October 25 by Gerrumonside ref

[daz39]

4 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I am a season ticket holder at a division 9 football team which should give you an idea of my attitude towards football. I love football and watch pretty much every free to air game that is on (because I don't have sky) and even do voluntary work in the local community for the 9th division team in question.

I am a Member at a level 8 team which is massively enjoyable compared to the pro game, i was a pretty regular SWFC supporter until they decided to charge obscene amounts and offer literally zero value for money for it, i very rarely watch any premier league these days as it annoys the hell out of me how it's made out that it is the be all and end all of not just football but sport and that it is a TV show to many under 30's.

I never watch European football as that's even worse, competitions which massively favour the money boys and is basically geared up to make them richer, the football league  at every level is getting to the point where every team thinks they have to play the same way as Manchester's Abu Dhabi allstars even though they aren't good enough to do so, the players, like RL, have been turned into robots to all do the same thing, namely passing it backwards or sidewards to the nearest team mate while moving at walking pace.

I rarely watch internationals neither, again they are awful, turgid games, i used to love watching different national sides in the tournaments but these days struggle to watch any, including the sleep inducing England team.

Give me Semi-pro, non league football any day where fans drink pitchside and mix and enjoy each others company and the players want to score goals and win matches, it's affordable and honest and it's like watching football back in the 70's and 80's still.

Rugby Union is an awful sport, i once tried watching a game, when we had a double header with them at London, for 10 minutes the play never moved as kick after kick went out in literally the same place, i fell asleep watching it and was picked up by the Sky cameres.

' Yankee chuckball' or 'Rugby with forward passes and helmets' is ###### too, like Premier league football though the modern youth have been influenced by the media to think it's good!.

I must say though i have become a huge fan of Wheelchair RL, i'm off to the test match tomorrow and cannot wait, it is possibly the most exciting ball sport there is at the moment.

 

Edited October 25 by daz39

[HawkMan]

AFL - I've tried getting into this, but I just can't. The skill is minimal,  handling skills poor and just booting the ball isn't particularly thrilling. But like Basketball the ease of scoring is a big turn off for me. Its so frequent it just loses all meaning. I'm sure the Aussies would love soccer if the goals were twenty feet high and fifteen feet wide with no goalkeeper,  and scores  of 20/ 15.

Yawnion,  boring,  NFL,  a mess, all that effort and complexity to throw a ball ten yards, and you get four goes at it. Then the poor dears troop off to allow specialists on to er... throw the ball ten yards.

Gaelic football is quite enjoyable,  close to soccer which is my favourite, just ahead of RL and cricket. What I like other than the game is the characters and scope of it. So many characters like Mourinho,  shooting his mouth off last night after being sent off, this draws people in. Pep, Arteta the moaner Sean " the bouncer " Dyche etc. I'm sure if RL coaches stood on the touchline berating the refs,  and being generally controversial and confrontational RL would see the benefit in heightened media interest.